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My 15year old son has been complaining about shoulder pain and stiffness while running.
He's been running a couple miles a day, three times a week, as part of his wrestling training. He also lifts three times a week and wrestles three times a week(two hour sessions)
First... does this sound like overtraining?
Second..where is the shoulder pain from running coming from?
He does fullbody workouts and doesn't experience any pain with that. And the actual wrestling, although exhausting, isn't causing him any "pain" in his shoulders.
I'm not a runner by any stretch for the imagination, so I'm at a loss telling him what he's doing wrong with his running.
BTW, he was never a long distance runner, not that two miles is a long distance, but he just started doing this in February.
Anyway, what could it be?...not enough stretching before the runs? Poor form or posture while running? He's really getting discouraged.
(and I'm clueless)
repo
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"...and the wisdom to know the difference. Now, pass the cookies."
I don't know if you realize this but you've answered your own question. Nothing else bothers his shoulder except for running. Even the traumatic force of being thrown on a mat repeatedly doesn't bother it, but running does. I think the obvious solution would be to stop running long distance. The only benefit of a wrestler running long distance is to lose weight. What you might not realize is that long distance running actually negates strength and agility which are two main components of wrestling.
To touch on your first question, yes it is overtraining. Not only is your son that busy with wrestling, he also receives activity in gym class. Combined with the social and intellectual pressures of school, I can imagine your son is constantly drained.
As a parent you need to ask the question...why would my son run long distance in a straight line when his sport consists of quick and agile movements on multiple planes while confined to a small area? You mentioned it in your post..."he was never a long distance runner". No he's not, so why is he running long distances? Believe it or not...the approach that is being taken to your son's training is ruining his athleticism and destroying his development.
All this activity it seems as though coaches (and possibly his parents) want him to be successful right now. What you might be missing is the fact that your son is 15 years old and is still developing physically and mentally. Do your want your son to be good now...or be good in a few years and possibly earn a collegiate scholarship?
I hope that I'm wrong, but your son is probably going to suffer and injury from being poorly and/or over-trained. Or, mentally he is going to break down.
With all that time spent training...how much time is left for his education, family, friends, etc.?? All this needs to be taken into consideration. Remember, we are not chisling athletes out of stone. We are developing them from the ground up.
will,
what can I say?? wow...a real eye opener. I too thought he was overtraining, but, he has it in his head that this is the way to go if he wants to improve in his wrestling.
Running has always been a struggle for him (and me too)... believe me, dropping it from his routine won't be that difficult.
You mentioned him being constaintly drained...yep, that about sums it up. He has been on this "program" ...and I use that term loosely...since February. He's only taken a few days off here or there. I think it's time for a little CNS recharge.
What if we lay off the running and lifting for the next week?
Allow him to continue with his wrestling practice but nothing outside of that.
Then the following week I'll change up his lifting program...maybe twice a week, fullbody, with plenty of rest between days.
I think he still needs some type cardio/sprinting work. Any suggestions?
Thanks a ton for your insight. Like I said, it is a real eye opener.
repo
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"...and the wisdom to know the difference. Now, pass the cookies."
It is fine to take time off here and there so I would definitely recommend it. I would also suggest a complete overhaul of his strength and conditioning regiment. Roughly every 4 weeks his program should change. Is it? Also, what kind of lifting regiment is he on right now? In all possibility, the routine he is on is not helping him improve on the mat.
For agility work I would recommend short distant movement activities. Everything included:agility ladder, linear/angular acceleration, lateral movement, change of direction, coordination, balance, power,etc. There is a lot more to a strength and conditioning program than just running and lifting. I'm trying to do clinics all over the area before I move to Chicago but unfortunately coaches aren't recognizing that the things they are doing aren't just wrong...they are dangerous!! I'm going to be in NY for another week so if the thought of a clinic or consultation is in the budget I'd love to help you out.
If you want to read more I have a few websites that might interest you. www.sportsspeedetc.com (my mentor's site) www.developingathletics.com www.sportspecific.com
Thanks for the reply and I'll talk to you soon.
I was just talking to Brian Grasso yesterday about you. He mentioned that you worked with Lee (sorry to hear about that ) and was very pleased that you'd be working in Chicago. Just don't let Brian get lazy (as if he had that capacity).
I'd also offer a simple explanation for the shoulder pain for repoman's son. If he is painfree with lifting and wrestling activities and it only shows up during longer distance running, consider the possibility of a "stitch". While most folks complain about a "side ache" or a cramp in the abdominal area during endurance activities, it's not uncommon to experience referred pain to the shoulder.
My guess is that if he shifts to more anaerobic sprint oriented conditioning drills (that are more appropriate conditioning for his needs anyway), he won't notice the shoulder pain.
That was my thought exactly. I know I suffered from the same kind of pain when I used to run long distances. Amazingly enough, when I left college (from a shoulder injury) and stopped running long distance I wasn't bothered by it anymore.
I'll try not to let Brian get lazy. I was hoping to get the chance to speak to you some time about the possibility of finding extra work (clinics, seminars, etc.) Brian has offered me a great opportunity and I'm thankful for everything he has done for me. Right now I'm in a position where I've been working my butt off trying to help people and I'm not getting anywhere financially. I was wondering if you had any suggestions or know of anyone that would be interested in receiving a consultation(s). Brian understands the financial situation I'm in right now and has been unbelievably helpful. I appreciate all his efforts but I don't want to burden him with my struggles. Any help you could offer me would be greatly appreciated...I'm always looking for opportunity to grow and learn from the best in the business.
Back to the training...I have yet to ask how big is the kid we are talking about. Repetitive forces for bigger athletes I've seen have caused more problems quickly than smaller athletes, especially to joint areas.
Thanks for the input Bill and I look forward to meeting you in the near future.
...glad I could get you guys together...and I just had a talk with Jr. We're going to shelf the long distance running for now. He's been doing some suicide type sprints in the backyard,kind of on and off, we might step that up a little to replace the steady state running.Any other ideas to help him out with the endurance/stamina part of wrestling?
I'm not sure if you were asking about my kids size in your last comment Will, but for the record he's a light weight, 5'2 and 126lbs.
Anyway, you guys have been very helpful..I knew I came to the right place.
repo
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"...and the wisdom to know the difference. Now, pass the cookies."
Always remember that nothing is more specific to developing wrestling endurance than wrestling.
In that case, one of the best methods to train specific endurance is to have 3 wrestlers in a group. 2 wrestle for 1 minute, one guy steps out, another steps in. That way each guy wrestles for 2 minutes straight with a one minute break.
you may also consider...
Barbell complexes
Sprints
Bear Crawl, crab walks, etc.
Sand bag lifts/carrys
technique work for time like repetitive switches for 30-60 sec
Isometrics for time
Try to determine his needs and then train them, but keep in mind that the body adapts well to intensity but not intensity AND volume. Too much of everything will kill performance.
Also remember that the wrestler that is best fueled will have the greater endurance. So feed him!!
A great website you might want to check out is www.combatgrappler.com I was fortunate enough to meet Zach Even-Esh at the IYCA conference and he specializes in training wrestlers and fighters. Zach utilizes a lot of "hardcore" training techniques. When I say hardcore I don't mean he's blasting metallica working them into the ground until they vomit (probably like your son's wrestling coach). Zach uses kettlebells, log carries/cleans, sled pulls, sandbags, etc., to build strength and power.
Zach would be a better resource than myself to talk about developing a young wrestler. Beyond being just a great coach, Zach is a great guy so I'm sure he'd be willing to throw some information your way.
will, bill, sorry to hijack the the post but, can you guys give any more "secret" insight into what's up with the IYCA? i've checked out the site and i really like the direction that the organization is going to be taking. just wondering if you had anymore details that may have come out of the chicago meeting.
I'm glad you asked!! The details of our first seminar are too long to list because the information was so good. If you can forward your email address I can send you information on the next IYCA seminar that is happening April 30th in Ohio. The information that is presented is some of the best I've ever seen. Brian Grasso has managed to organize some of the best in the country (maybe the world) to contribute to the IYCA's development. The Chicago seminar was great because of the diversity of the group. I was fortunate enough to talk to some of the best strength coaches in the country that all had different methods of training. I think Brian Grasso is trying to create an atmosphere of diversified education and you see that in the Board of Directors. I think one of the things that make Brian and Bill so effective is that they don't go around saying they are "experts" and everyone should bow before them. The IYCA wants to make sure athletic development is just that...development. Right now in our country our young athletes are being destroyed. (I'm so upset about it that I'm actually writing a book on the topic). I see the IYCA's goal as being an educational organization for parents and coaches to eliminate poor training techniques that can be detrimental to the physical and psychological development of young kids (not just athletes!!).
Bill and Brian can elaborate more on this because they are at the helm of the IYCA. This is what I've seen from my experience with the IYCA and that is why I am so grateful to be a part of it.
) and was very pleased that you'd be working in Chicago. Just don't let Brian get lazy (as if he had that capacity). 
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