Yes, I thought 15% was pretty low. Maybe I can go change those in SP? I'm not too familiar with SP yet.
I've been reading bits here and there about how much protein is needed, and every author/book/expert seems to have their own opinion, without too much convincing data to back them up. Even in the NROL4W book, I went back and read it again last night, and they don't seem to come down too fanatically in one direction or another. They do talk about the 40/30/30, but it doesn't seem like they really 'insist' that it's THE ideal proportion. I dunno. I'll keep reading!
Thanks for the comments. The Wookie- thanks! My log title came from me pondering where the dividing line between fluffy and fit is. Maybe fluffy is in the eye of the beholder!
I think percentages are an easy way for an author who has a mass market audience to move his or her readers from a conventional high carb low fat 65/20/15 to something with more protein and fat.
Many here have found that discarding percentage goals and instead build their diet around meeting a protein minimum, a good fat minimum, getting plenty of variety with non-starchy vegetables and fruits and then filling in to meet calorie targets with starchy vegetables or grains. That might be expressed in percentages when all is said and done, but it isn't how it was arrived at.
Things may change for me of course, but I don't ever see myself being the type of person who really stresses about making sure I get as close to 30% protein or something like that. Now, I can see myself shooting for a certain # of grams of protein and filling in the rest in a reasonable way.
Many here have found that discarding percentage goals and instead build their diet around meeting a protein minimum, a good fat minimum, getting plenty of variety with non-starchy vegetables and fruits and then filling in to meet calorie targets with starchy vegetables or grains. That might be expressed in percentages when all is said and done, but it isn't how it was arrived at.
This is basically what I do. Work towards meeting your minimum protein (as Tom suggested, somewhere around 1g protein per pound of body weight) and make sure you're getting enough fat (maybe 45-55g of fat) and let the rest fall out where it will within your calorie targets. Makes it easier.
Also, I would suggest doing the NROL4W workouts as written without adding additional exercises. Just give the workouts your ALL. Lift as hard as you can within the set/rep scheme given. This should be adequate and as you work through the programs you'll be adequately challenged. Sometimes less is more.
It was fantastic! Thanks for asking. My polar tells me I burned 601 calories for 90 minutes, and we had a really fun time. My husband kindly tells me that I'm getting better, but I actually think I AM getting a bit better. I can occasionally return some of his really fast serves now, and I'm getting better at serving the ball myself. I even got a few aces! Heh heh. I don't even care how I do really, it's just fun to get out there and run around burning calories and grunting.
Saw you post in other threads but hadn't seen you start your own log.. so hi!
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Originally Posted by Snarlla
So, basically I've lost ~64 lbs. Trying to keep my motivation up and get stronger. I'd ideally like to decrease my body fat % and just get more fit.
Amazing feat to lose that much weight and keep it off.. can I say again how much I like your spreadsheet
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Originally Posted by Snarlla
Forgot, I was going to ask... what's the convention for recording weights done with a barbell? I recorded the total weight, but I don't know if people just record the weight of the plates or the total including the bar.
For barbell total weight, for dumbbell it varies, I am writing the weight between parentheses as follows (18kgx2).
Other notations : BW+ 6kg for like weighted pullups or platform+ 45 kg for the leg press of which I don't know the weight of the sled that I am pushing against.
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Originally Posted by Snarlla
Yeah, so I would have assumed it was the total weight, but when my trainer stopped by to check out what I was doing I had to ask him again what the weight of the olympic bar was (I thought it was 45, but not sure). He saw me jotting it down and started telling me some (what seemed like) complicated system of writing down OO (for the bar) + the plates on ONE side, then if I increased the weight he said I should just write +5 or whatever plate I added to one side. Now, he wasn't telling me that this is how it SHOULD be done, but saying it would make figuring out how much to add next time easier, and that's how he did it.
I don't think my numbers will ever be so high that that the math will be a problem though.
That is a good way to do it, if you decide inside the gym what weight you are using.
I am doing the exact reverse... at home and oftentimes several weeks in advance I decide what weight I will use. Since I'm using 3 or 4 different barbells (7,5 - 15 - 18 - 20kg) and it used to be even more when I was often using fixed wt barbells, I'm also pre-printing what the weight of the disks should be on ONE side of the barbell.
Things get funny when I have to switch barbells for some reason, but most of the time it still works out OK.. I just don't like doing extra math in the gym when you're trying to concentrate on other things.
To clarify further, so I list both total weight as well as the weight of the extra weight added to ONE side of the barbell. This is just a reminder I put in my own spreadsheet & is never shown in my log. Well, actually today I did.. for 1-armed corner presses : barbell (18kg) + 6,25kg since 1 point of the bb is actually in a corner and you're not pushing all of the weight: most times I have written 24,3kg.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarlla
Yes, I thought 15% was pretty low. Maybe I can go change those in SP? I'm not too familiar with SP yet.
I've been reading bits here and there about how much protein is needed, and every author/book/expert seems to have their own opinion, without too much convincing data to back them up. Even in the NROL4W book, I went back and read it again last night, and they don't seem to come down too fanatically in one direction or another. They do talk about the 40/30/30, but it doesn't seem like they really 'insist' that it's THE ideal proportion. I dunno. I'll keep reading!
BTW, 15% is the national guideline for 'healthy' protein intake but it is by no means what the fitness industry advocates. Most people here will eat at least 25% and sometimes even up to 40% of total calories from protein (in that case probably only on extremely low calorie diets)
40/30/30 is a classic one by now and derived from the 'Zone' and actually works pretty well for most that are eating a normal but not too low amount of calories. Using gram per kg of lean body mass (or BW if you are not too fluffy) is a better guideline.. for the 3rd time today a reference to a decent DIY explanation: http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2009/...life/#more-183
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The Do It Yourself Diet
You will need an estimate of your lean mass - use 80% of your “goal weight” if you’re female, or 90% of your goal weight if male.
You will need an estimate of your maintenance calories. Use 13-15 times your bodyweight if you can’t be arsed to track your intake on something like www.fitday.com for a few days.
Using your own food choices, build your diet around the following guidelines:
Set protein at no lower than a gram per pound of lean mass.
Set fat at no lower than half a gram per pound of lean mass.
Set fibre at or around 25g - this has to come from food, not fibre supplements!
Fill the remainder of your calories by comfort.
There you go - that’s maintenance.
See? It’s a BUDGET! The protein and fat minimums are already spent, but the rest is up to you to spend however you wish - as long as you don’t go over budget.
The fibre requirement encourages you to make better choices with your “discretionary spending”, an effect you will find makes this process particularly elegant in its simplicity: if your calories are restricted to only what will sustain you, I challenge you to come up with a truly unhealthy diet based on the above guidelines.
How many people have actually told you already how cute your avatar is?
Thanks very much for all the useful information Espi!
So, I am at ~146 and appx 21% body fat. That would put me at ~115 grams of protein. Using the RDA of 0.8/kg would put me at ~53 grams, so that's about 2x that. So far I'm at 106 grams for today (which works out to 31% as a matter of fact), but I'm considering having a treat later tonight.
Since starting to pay attention to this I'm beginning to wonder how vegetarians ever get enough protein!
Thanks for the complients on my charts. They are a bit overkill, but I'm a data whore. I guess this is what happens when a scientist becomes a stay at home mom. I've got to find something to chart and graph.
My avatar is the spokes-gekko from an insurance company here in America. Do you guys have Geico in the Netherlands? Probably not. LOL! There's a longer story behind the avatar, but I won't relate it here.
Hmm, maybe so. I'm going off an evaluation I had done in the gym. He used a 3 point caliper measurement. I've also got some calipers at home and did a 7 point one (or had my husband do it) and came up with a similar measurement. I guess the only certain way to know would be to do the water displacement thing or some sort of scanning thing.
Oh, I just had a thought. I've got a bit of loose skin since losing all that weight. I wonder if that affects how fat I look?
Bodyfat percentage is just a number. As long as you pick some sort of measurement and keep it consistant and look at trends and progress, you're okay. Personally, I don't worry about BF percent because it so difficult to accurately measure. I just use the scale, tape measurements and the mirror.
P.S. If you're 146#, I would try for a little more protein than 115g. I would try to get closer to 140g depending on the number of cals you're getting. However, if you're used to eating lower it will initially be a challenge to get that much! I know it was an eye opening experience for me.
Yeah, I'm not going to stress too much about the BF%. Whatever it is, it is.
Getting 140 grams of protein! Gah, I just don't know how to do that and keep my calories under control. You are right, that would take some getting used to. Perhaps I will try to work the number up gradually.
Yeah, I'm not going to stress too much about the BF%. Whatever it is, it is.
Getting 140 grams of protein! Gah, I just don't know how to do that and keep my calories under control. You are right, that would take some getting used to. Perhaps I will try to work the number up gradually.
Well, I guess it really depends on your goals - you really don't have to get that much. I think getting 30% or higher of your daily intake in protein is a great start. Just start there and see where it goes you know?
Thanks Jill. I'm not really sure what my goals are exactly. I'm still thinking about that. Right now I'm just sort of seeing where the protein falls based on what I have been eating on the WW plan. I'll try to gradually adjust it up as I go and see what I need.
Food today. I probably should have eaten a little more what with the racquetball, but I'm not that hungry.
I probably will not work out tomorrow since I have an appointment with my trainer on Tuesday. Maybe I will take the kids to the pool.
Yeah, I'm not going to stress too much about the BF%. Whatever it is, it is.
Getting 140 grams of protein! Gah, I just don't know how to do that and keep my calories under control. You are right, that would take some getting used to. Perhaps I will try to work the number up gradually.
It's taken me many months to get it into the 110 - 120 range consistently. It seems to me to be very difficult unless you eat wierd combinations of food and of course drink protein drinks as well. Just do the best you can, that's all.
Oh yeah, hi!
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Originally Posted by Lost Dog
Plus, my desire to remain stunningly attractive outweighs the call of the cheesecake. mostly...
Then I must be more disciplined than I thought, since most of the time I'm averaging 135-140g of protein. However I also eat close to 2000kcal and am maintaining rather than losing weight.
The way to do it and not get bored to tears is to vary calorie intake. On rest days I'll set a minimum of 2.3 gram of protein per kg LBM which brings me to approx. 105g at the moment. For workout days on the other hand where I eat a ton more food, I try to cram in 4 gram per kg LBM , which is approx. 175g.
Somehow that's easier than trying to eat a consistent 135-140g a day.. besides, I firmly think a body can get spoiled with protein and starts squandering it if you eat a consistent high amount of it.. what will happen if you're suddenly unable to get even 75 gram a day? Like end up in hospital or ...?
As for guessing LBM.. the article advocates thinking of an ideal low wt and suppose that your LBM is 80% of that weight. Say you are 145 now but in your dreams are 125 lbs, in that case LBM would be close to 100lbs.
The rude reality for bf% is that caliper methods really suck.. especially 3 site ones. The 4 or 7 site measurements are a bit more accurate. Generally most people that are calipered at say x% have a bf% that's at least 5 to 10% higher.
Frankly I even put more faith in either Omron or Tanita, as long as you use rolling averages.. preferably 30 day averages since hormones have a huge influence on conductivity of the skin.
The rude reality for bf% is that caliper methods really suck.. especially 3 site ones. The 4 or 7 site measurements are a bit more accurate. Generally most people that are calipered at say x% have a bf% that's at least 5 to 10% higher.
Frankly I even put more faith in either Omron or Tanita, as long as you use rolling averages.. preferably 30 day averages since hormones have a huge influence on conductivity of the skin.
I never knew the 3 site caliper method was sucky. It's something to keep in mind for the future.
I do have an Omron (somewhere) and used it regularly in the past. I can't say if it's truly "accurate." However, I always got consistent results on it, because I followed its instructions, and it pretty much lined up with the #'s I got with online BF% calculators.
My tried-and-true method for gauging body fat loss is even simpler - just track your body's measurements. I honestly don't know what my BF% is at this point, but I do know that my waist size is now 25.5". So progress has been made in the last couple of months, because at the end of last year, it was about 26.25". Knowing your body fat percentage is cool, but tape measures do a good job in tracking that "big picture", too.
Most definitely tape measurements work well too, unless you're very bloated.
The 3-site caliper measurement sucked for *me* because it didn't take my abdominal fat into account very well, while the 4-caliper method did & resulted in a % that was much closer to the BIA-devices like Omron showed.
True, those can jump up & down by almost 5% on a given day, but with consistent daily tracking this smoothens out quite well.
Well, I just used my caliper measurements in a variety of different sites for calculating body fat percentage, and got numbers ranging anywhere from 22% to 33% depending on what equation was used. LOL! So, while I'm tempted to take the lower one, because that makes me feel happy, I think what I'll do is just keep up with the mm measurments from each region and see if those trend down over time.
That's basically why I got the calipers. Since I am (mostly) done losing weight I wanted another method of feedback since the scale is not going to be moving much. I have been keeping track of my measurements, I think I posted them earlier in this log. I like seeing those go down, motivates me.
I was reading some papers that I found on PubMed about body fat measurement and it was interesting. I guess when you get down to it, all methods of body fat estimation are just that, estimations. I guess unless you render someone down for their fat you are not going to know. Bleh.
ETA: I forgot to say... My old gym had those Omron things, and when I started that gym (in December) the thing told me in the range of 28%, IIRC. And that was at ~170 lbs and not having worked out in years. When I left that gym, it was typically giving me a reading of 22-23% (which was at about 6 lbs heavier than I am now). So anyway, I feel like kind of a dumbass for announcing that I was at ~21% BF, when obviously it appears that I am not, but it seemed to correspond with all the numbers I had ever been given.
Definitely interesting. If that chick who posted with the DEXA at 23.5 (or whatever it was) was really 23.5 I'd be pretty happy with a BF% in the high 20s at this point. She looked pretty amazing, IMO.
One of the articles I was looking at this morning concluded that DEXA tended to overestimate (IIRC). I haven't read enough to know if that's a typical finding though.
All the discussion re: calipers and accuracy is why I decided to just track progress mainly with measurements, scale loss, and pictures. Getting hung up on numbers that are likely inaccurate in the first place just wasn't working for me.
Though if I ever have the cash to spend on it, I would be interested in getting a DEXA done, for curiosity's sake.
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They call me Amanda, that being my real name, and "They" being people who know me in person as I don't go around introducing myself in real life as "scribess." 'Cause that would just be strange.
without even looking I am assuming you were meaning Sportsgirl (Diana) with 'if I were 23.5%' . She has an amazingly even distribution of body fat so almost regardless of bf% looks good.
The only downside being that she has to go down to really low levels to look outright smashing since everything goes off more or less evenly too. (she very occasionally posts here)
DEXA are really the current golden standard but unless you get lucky to have it done anyway or have the cash it's not really an option.
Somehow I never get into the measurement thing.. actually the last time we used calipers was literally more than a year ago. And my wardrobe has now dwindled down to a very very small amount of clothes with the majority being spandex cycling gear (I never wear coz' I don't cycle anymore)
without even looking I am assuming you were meaning Sportsgirl (Diana) with 'if I were 23.5%' . She has an amazingly even distribution of body fat so almost regardless of bf% looks good.
The only downside being that she has to go down to really low levels to look outright smashing since everything goes off more or less evenly too. (she very occasionally posts here)
Her screen name is Gabriella, and the BF% she posted was 23.2. I just went back and looked (post #147). Hope that's okay to post here. Such a tiny waist and muscular arms! I'm so envious!
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