I have been reading Starting Strength, section on deadlifts, and I was so anxious to try CDLs with proper form (mine wasn't, surprise, surprise) that I nixed the wide grip deadlifts from box in favor of regular ones with proper form. I am not really understanding why NROLFW has us doing wide grip deadlifts at all anyway, now that I see Rippetoe says that a wide grip serves no purpose in the deadlift, just making the path the bar has to travel longer. I also put the bar up on two 25lb. plates to raise it to regulation height, (since the power cage was busy), and I could see how it's better to use the right height rather than a deficit lift with smaller plates. These felt MUCH better than my old deadlifts. I now realize how much of it is back muscles, not arms. My grip was much more effective today when I kept my arms straight and focused on back and scapula placement and tension. Still hard to judge if my form is totally correct, though, because mirrors aren't right angle to see, and I have no workout partner. I would like to take a short film of myself to look at objectively; I might try that some morning early when the gym is empty.
Bulgarian Split Squat: 2 x 10 x 35
Underhand Lat Pulldown: 2 x 10 x 92.5
Split Squats were getting tough today with that weight. Lat pulldowns were easier than last time, only last couple of reps were hard. A guy taking the station after me said "wow, you're pretty strong. . . .for a girl." Girl. I love it. I am probably older than he is, haha.
Reverse Lunge from box...: 1 x 10 x 15, 1 x 10 x 17.5
DB prone Cuban Snatch: 2 x 10 x 10
Had a note to try 12 on the snatches, but just couldn't face doing that. 10 is still plenty hard.
Ball Crunch, 10 lb. plate, feet on bench: 2 x 15 x 10
Reverse Crunch, incline: 2 x 16 x BW
Ball Side Crunch with twist: 2 x 15 x BW
Prone Cobra: 30+30 sec., 60 sec.
Don't know what happened on that first cobra. I just couldn't hold it for 60 seconds! I only paused for about 5 seconds between the segments, though, it was like my body said "give up" and I almost listened, but then said "no way, I'm getting back up there to finish my count!"
HIIT: 15 minutes, one minute sprints, two minute walk: 6.6, 7.0, 7.2, 7.5, 8.0
Very, very tired for the HIIT. Almost gave up after second sprint, but then didn't; sort of like with the cobras.
Really pleased with my deadlifts. I almost went back to try one rep at 135lbs. just to see if I could do it, but I was just too tired after everything else. I think next time I will be able to work up to that weight. Proper understanding really helps!
I have been reading Starting Strength, section on deadlifts, and I was so anxious to try CDLs with proper form (mine wasn't, surprise, surprise) that I nixed the wide grip deadlifts from box in favor of regular ones with proper form. I am not really understanding why NROLFW has us doing wide grip deadlifts at all anyway, now that I see Rippetoe says that a wide grip serves no purpose in the deadlift, just making the path the bar has to travel longer. I also put the bar up on two 25lb. plates to raise it to regulation height, (since the power cage was busy), and I could see how it's better to use the right height rather than a deficit lift with smaller plates. These felt MUCH better than my old deadlifts. I now realize how much of it is back muscles, not arms. My grip was much more effective today when I kept my arms straight and focused on back and scapula placement and tension. Still hard to judge if my form is totally correct, though, because mirrors aren't right angle to see, and I have no workout partner. I would like to take a short film of myself to look at objectively; I might try that some morning early when the gym is empty.
...Proper understanding really helps!
Yes, it's great when you get deadlifts right. I always liked them but now I think they're great. And it's surprising how little your arms are used - I feel it mainly across upper back and in glutes and hams.
Can't wait to see what your 1 REP MAX is 'cos you are pretty strong for a girl! Impressive weight on those pulldowns!
I really do like deadlifts. I think its because its the exercise I can lift the most weight with and feel the strongest doing.
I agree! Especially empowering since NONE of the guys in my gym ever do deadlifts, and very few do squats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppypixie
Yes, it's great when you get deadlifts right. I always liked them but now I think they're great. And it's surprising how little your arms are used - I feel it mainly across upper back and in glutes and hams.
Can't wait to see what your 1 REP MAX is 'cos you are pretty strong for a girl! Impressive weight on those pulldowns!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katydid77
Yay for not giving up! It is awesome that you pushed through and just told your body what to do, instead of letting it dictate to you.
And that guy was right . . . you ARE pretty strong, for a girl
Thanks, you two!
I've reached the end of stage 2, and I think instead of taking a whole week off lifting, I will use the next three workouts to just practice deadlifts and squats (mainly. I'll do other things as well, but mainly those.)
I have to work a lot this weekend, I'm on call from 6pm tonight until 8am tomorrow, (after working 8:30-5:30 today), then I work all day Sunday. Ugh. So I might not get in a great workout in the next few days, but I'm going to really try to go tomorrow at least for a few minutes. I am super excited to see how much progress I can make with those lifts done properly. I haven't tried the squats at all yet. I think I'll be able to lift more than I did in stage one, when I didn't really know how to do them correctly.
Have not been tracking food lately; I feel like I have a handle on what I eat, and what I CAN eat. And it didn't help that Tuesday night I ate pizza, and Wednesday lunch I ate a ton of Thai food. That's when I decided to stop Fitday tracking (maybe because trying to figure out the ingredients/calories/macros in prepared foods is near-impossible?) But weight has been jumping around lately, and it was pretty steady for quite a long time. It seems that whenever I eat "unclean" food, the scale starts jumping. Poppypixie, my weight graph looks like yours has! But I'm still weighing everyday. It's got to be the water weight that prepared foods invite with their starchy carbs and salt.
If you're eating higher protein and you have a day of higher carbs it's not that unusual to hold a bit of excess water. However, it could just be more sodium and such in other's prepared foods.
Didn't get in a workout yesterday. Was dead tired from the night before. A coworker told me about the annual "Grunion Run" here in So. Cal. Apparently every summer month around the full and new moons, there are a few days when the Grunion (type of little fish) come up on shore to spawn. The females lay their eggs in the sand at high tide, and there can be millions of them in the shallows. People go to see them and "fish" for them; you can only use your hands to catch them, but you can keep as many as you want.
The only thing is that it happens around midnight. So my boys, being in love with any kind of fishing, wanted to go, and Friday was one of the nights it was happening. I put them to bed at 9 like usual and woke them up at 10:30 and we went to the beach until almost 1am. Disappointing Grunion run that night, though. Not many fish, but my son did catch one at least. Don't know if it was just not a good night for it, or we had the wrong beach, or what, but kids had fun anyway. There were a lot of people there, kind of a fun atmosphere.
I was also on call that night for the hospital, and ran the risk of being called at any time when we were out. I didn't get called then, though, and I got to sleep around 2am. Then I was called at 5:30! So I got about 3 hours of sleep, since I didn't go back to bed after the call. It was almost 7 by the time I got home so I just stayed up.
All three of us were tired and cranky all day yesterday. I got three short cat naps, but was really beat by bedtime last night. Worked all day today, too, but before work I did get in...
A Workout!
Stage 3 run-through workout with added Squat sets for practice:
Squats, all x 5 reps with proper form: 45lb., 55, 65, 75, 85, 95, 105, 110
Was really pleased with these squat sets. Amazing how proper form makes such a difference in ability.
1-Arm DB Snatch: 3 x 10, 3 x 15
DB Single-Leg RDL: 6 x 10's, 6 x 15's
BB Row: 6 x 45, 6 x 55
DB Single-Arm Overhead Squat: 2 x 6 x 5 and 10
DB Incline Bench Press: 6 x 15's , 6 x 20's
Reverse Woodchop: 6 x 15, 6 x 35
Was really light on some weights, just to figure out the moves. I haven't done anything like the DB Snatch or the Single Arm Overhead Squat before, so they were weird feeling. Hard to know how much weight to use. Have notes to try higher next time on the Snatch and the Single Leg RDLs and the Presses.
Strange to have a workout that doesn't start with a "big" lift like the DL or Squat or FSPP! Seems like this workout will be much easier than stage 2, but I know that's not true. I am sure I will be hobbling home after the Body Weight Matrix (which I skipped today), saying "I can't believe I thought this would be easier!"
Started tracking in Fitday again. Got nervous after the few days of not tracking, that I was eating either way too much or way too little. Guess I'm not ready to wean off that yet.
The Grunion Run sounds fun! Since it was your first adventure with one, I imagine that you will have more information next time around and find the perfect beach etc.
Sorry your sleep pattern was all messed up, in your field that has to be par for the course though.
I get to sleep in tomorrow. I am so looking forward to it!
__________________
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If you weren't born drop dead gorgeous, be thankful for the opportunity to develop character first.
Have finally been able to read in here a little. You are making really great strength gains! wOOt! That has to feel wonderful.
Sure does! Thanks.
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Originally Posted by realcdn
The one-arm dumbbell snatch can be quite a powerful movement when you start increasing the weights. The bodyweight matrix is a killer.
I had a trainer once who had me do pretty much that bodyweight matrix, and I remember it's bad. Seems like it wouldn't be, but the endlessness of it and the aerobic-ness (aerobicity? tired, can't remember if there's a proper adjective form of that word) of it makes it really hard for me. I get winded so easily.
Seemed like I was hesitant to go up on weight for the snatches, but can't remember why. Felt kind of silly doing them, these and the DB squats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamonte
I'm definitely impressed with those squat numbers!
Feeling really down and depressed tonight, due to kid problems. Too bad, because I did a workout before dinner, and it was so good I just felt so UP after it! Oh well, it'll pass. So here's what I did tonight. It was a practice run of workout B, stage 3. I only did some of the exercises, like the practice run of A, and I added deadlifts after reading Rippetoe on them. Haven't watched the video yet, though. That's next day off.
8/11/09
Practice run, Stage 3, Workout B
RDL/Bent Over Row: 6 x 45, 6 x 50, 6 x 55
Partial Single Leg Squat: 2 x 6 x 10's, 6 x 15's
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown: 6 x 60, 6 x 80, 6 x 90
Back Extension: 3 x 6 x 25 plate
YTWL: 3 x 6 x 5's
Forgot that I did BB rows the other day, and topped at 55, or I would have gone heavier on these, since it's not the RDL part that's the limiting factor.
Put my leg out in front of me on the squats, going to try to work toward pistol squats, though I don't think I'll ever get that low, since I was a figure skater for years when I was young, and could never do them on skates. But it felt better to have leg in front than in back.
YTWL are pretty hard, just as people have said. I can't believe that 5 pound dumbbells were giving me as much of a burn as they did by the end of the third set! I remember reading in someone's log that she "worked all the way up to 8 pound DB's by the end of stage 3, WooHoo!" and now I have to say I understand! Amazing that an exercise can be so deceptively simple.
The highlight of my workout tonight, though, was the deadlifts, which I did at the end:
warmed up with 30 and 40 lb. BB's
All sets of 5: 65, 85, 105, 115, 125
2 x 135, 2 x 135 with mixed grip, rest a minute, 1 x 135 mixed grip
The first 2 with mixed grip, my back started rounding at the bottom of the down, so I rested, then did one more just to make sure I could keep my back tight, and I did.
Wish my gym had the plates that are same diameter for different weights. I can see now why it matters to have them at the right height. I couldn't have used proper form with lighter weights being lower to the ground. I put two 45lb. plates under each end of the BB to raise it to the right height. That worked ok, but the plates my gym has are hex sided, and tend to roll over a flat or two on one end when I put it down, leaving the bar crooked in front of me. A pain. And our power cage doesn't have holes for the bars that are low enough to put the deadlift bar right! How dumb. The lowest hole is about 2 feet off the ground.
I feel better already after recapping my workout for posting.
YTWLs just aren't fun, but by the end of Stage 5 you likely will be using a slightly higher weight (and they'll hurt just as much). Sorry that you're having a tough day though, hopefully it's working itself out.
Great looking number on the squats and deads. I think that I know why NROL favors snatch grip deadlifts and its exactly the reason why Rippetoe doesn't prefer them. The snatch grip forces a greater ROM and intentionally makes the expercise more difficult. It's also a pet exercise of Alwyn Cosgrove. I don't think I've seen anything written by him that didn't include a snatch grip deadlift.
Great looking number on the squats and deads. I think that I know why NROL favors snatch grip deadlifts and its exactly the reason why Rippetoe doesn't prefer them. The snatch grip forces a greater ROM and intentionally makes the expercise more difficult. It's also a pet exercise of Alwyn Cosgrove. I don't think I've seen anything written by him that didn't include a snatch grip deadlift.
Can you tell me the difference between snatch grip and any other grip? I just can't figure out what people mean by that. I guess because I don't really understand what a snatch is, or a clean. There are a lot of terms I just don't get yet. Thanks.
If in a regular DL your hands on the bar are right outside your knees, in a snatch grip your hands would be much farther apart (closer to the plates) (as for a snatch rather than for a clean). A sumo DL would be where your hands are together in the middle of the bar (inside of your knees).
Figured since you looked around my log I'd snoop around here and do the same
I know we're about the same in weight and exact height, but I haven't been doing as much on my wide grip lat pulldowns. Mostly I stick to 50/60lbs but this is where I am comfortable at (as far as being sore afterwards goes) so I am sure if I go up to around 75/80 I might be sore...have to give it a try! Other than that, GOOD JOB chicka!
__________________ "Create like a God, Command like a King, and Work like a Slave"-Constantin Brancusi
If in a regular DL your hands on the bar are right outside your knees, in a snatch grip your hands would be much farther apart (closer to the plates) (as for a snatch rather than for a clean). A sumo DL would be where your hands are together in the middle of the bar (inside of your knees).
So, what Alwyn calls a "wide grip deadlift" in NROLFW, is a snatch grip? What's a plain "snatch" move? What's a clean?
I hate the wide grip deadlifts, btw. I gave up on them in stage 2; I just couldn't hold onto the bar with my hands that far apart.
Figured since you looked around my log I'd snoop around here and do the same
I know we're about the same in weight and exact height, but I haven't been doing as much on my wide grip lat pulldowns. Mostly I stick to 50/60lbs but this is where I am comfortable at (as far as being sore afterwards goes) so I am sure if I go up to around 75/80 I might be sore...have to give it a try! Other than that, GOOD JOB chicka!
Well, your squats are unbelievable! I know, I know, I've said that before.
So, what Alwyn calls a "wide grip deadlift" in NROLFW, is a snatch grip? What's a plain "snatch" move? What's a clean?
I hate the wide grip deadlifts, btw. I gave up on them in stage 2; I just couldn't hold onto the bar with my hands that far apart.
here is a youtube showing some women's olympic lifting
When the bar is gripped wide and goes over head in one smooth movement, it is a snatch. When the grip is narrow and moved just to the shoulders, that is a clean. Then the movement that puts it overhead is called the jerk. Together clean and jerk.
Gotcha, Lisa, thanks. Now it makes sense. Funny how some basic things are just skipped over in the books, because it's assumed that everyone knows them.
I just don't see how people can grip the bar so far apart and lift it at all. Seems it would be more efficient to grip it close all the time. Defies my comprehension.
Wow, Lisa. That video is inspiring. I should show it to my lifting partner who is struggling with the high pull and then call him dirty names! Just kidding, Mark!
LL, Don't worry I didn't know what snatch grip meant for quite a while either!
I don't do snatch grip deadlifts very often, and for the same reason. I find that its brutal on the grip and uncomfortable. But, I believe that its more demanding and involves more muscle groups than a conventional deadlift.
"If you could only do one exercise ... "
I hate questions like this. But I do have an answer: The snatch-grip deadlift probably works more muscle through a bigger range of motion than any other single exercise.
Also, Alwyn is notorious for choosing exercises that create super high metabolic demands, like the split squat with overhead press. Thats just evil.....same theory behind the Snatch Grip DL I think!
Wow, Lisa. That video is inspiring. I should show it to my lifting partner who is struggling with the high pull and then call him dirty names! Just kidding, Mark!
Thanks, Chad. Now I have to go Google high pull! Also hang clean, which I have also been wondering about. Maybe I can guess it: is it a clean which starts with the bar hanging at the knees? So, a deadlift, then a clean?
Yep, when you hear the word "Hang" it usually means with the bar held in your hands you'll bend down like you're doing a Romanian Deadlift (but not as low) and then execute the movement. "Clean" means getting the bar into the "catch" position at your shoulders, like in a front squat. So, a hang clean has you bending down into a short range of motion Romanian Deadlift and then exploding upward to sling the bar up into the air. You then do a quarter squat to get yourself under the bar and catch it on your shoulders and stand erect.
High Pull is the same motion as the Hang Clean minus the catch or "clean". You'll start in a hang position and then explode pulling the bar straight upward in front of your body until it reaches the height of your upper chest and then control it on the way down.
Also, snatch grip means a wide grip, which we've already discussed. And clean grip means a narrow grip like a standard deadlift. Mixed grip just refers to having your palms facing opposite directions with one hand pronated and one hand supinated.
Usually when you hear the word "Power" as in Power Clean they're referring to doing the movement from the floor. But there are some nuances there that I don't know much about, so I can't be absolutely certain about that.
There are a million varations, but the hang clean and high pull are the only ones that I feel comfortable doing at this time. I'll also do DB snatches, but don't feel comfortable with a barbell snatch.
Be careful doing any of these movements if you can't drop the weight to the floor. I don't have bumper plates and can't drop the weights in my garage.....not at 5am anyway. I still do them, but I don't go very heavy. If you have to put the weight down under control you're risking some damage to your elbows if the weight is too heavy. I've learned this the hard way. I also use sawhorses now as a catch so that I don't have to drop them to the floor, but don't have to control it to the floor either.
I highly suggest getting some professional guidance from a stength coach or a trainer who is well-versed in o-lifting if you want to try any of the clean or snatch moves. I'd been doing hang cleans for quite a while. THEN, I began working with my strength coach. Wow, UNBELIEVABLE difference. The nuances of proper technique were very tough, at first. We trained that damn power position for weeks, it seemed! I certainly realized right away how incorrectly I had been executing these movements prior to proper training. The hardest thing I have ever learned.
I highly suggest getting some professional guidance from a stength coach or a trainer who is well-versed in o-lifting if you want to try any of the clean or snatch moves. I'd been doing hang cleans for quite a while. THEN, I began working with my strength coach. Wow, UNBELIEVABLE difference.
I absolutely beleive you. But, I'm not in a position to take that advice. Thats why I'm not trying to go crazy with weight or complex movements. But, undoubtedly yours is the best advice!
I was really just trying to give an explanation of the terms...but I can't do anything with brevity!
My understanding of "Power" is not "from the floor" but rather refers to the catch being just a soft knee catch and not a full squat catch.
If "hang" is not mentioned, it is from the floor.
So Clean is from the floor with a full squat catch.
So "power clean" would be from the floor and not a full catch.
Hang clean - from the hang with a full catch.
Hang power clean - from the hang with a soft catch.
Similarly for snatch.
Check out the Jill's & Tina's logs in the Oly/Power/Strongman section and see some of our own ladies workouts and videos from both practice and competition for some inspiration.
Stage 2, Workout 4B
That's when I decided to stop Fitday tracking (maybe because trying to figure out the ingredients/calories/macros in prepared foods is near-impossible?) But weight has been jumping around lately, and it was pretty steady for quite a long time. It seems that whenever I eat "unclean" food, the scale starts jumping. Poppypixie, my weight graph looks like yours has! But I'm still weighing everyday. It's got to be the water weight that prepared foods invite with their starchy carbs and salt.
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