My AMRAP (Workout A) was lame as well. Don't worry about it. I wanted to complete it and see that I had become so much stronger but not every workout goes to plan. But see, HIIT, you like that and you're going to be doing that a lot more than AMRAP! Good to see a not-so-good workout followed by a great one!
Not sure I'm going to do AMRAP workout B. I am tired of those routines, and since the A went so badly I'm feeling resentful towards stage 1 at this point. Have been looking ahead at stage 2 and am really excited to start it. I know I'm supposed to take a week off between the stages, but I am scheduled for a vacation far, far away from any gyms from July 11-18, and that's two weeks away. If I take a week now I will just start stage 2 and have to stop it again. Trying to figure out how to work that.
I might give in and do the AMRAP B tomorrow, then take the rest of this week and next to ease into stage 2 by practicing the techniques with body weight or just really light weight, to make sure I have the form down. FSPP will be really hard, I can tell. Also I can use the weeks to do more HIIT. Then take my vacation and really start stage 2 when I return.
After many days of steady 123lbs, this morning I was suddenly down to 122. Wonder if that was due to the HIIT I did last night; it was pretty intense. Don't see much of a change in the belly fat yet with my lower carb diet, though. Slightly confused about the conflicting information about whether it's possible to lose fat while gaining muscle. People on here say it's one or the other, but many books, trainers, people etc., including NROLFW talk about body recomposition, meaning replacing fat with muscle. Lou does, when he talks early in the book about his hypothetical woman lifter who gains 9 pounds of muscle while losing the same weight of fat,making her smaller at the same weight. So how is it not possible to do both at the same time??
Amazing what HIIT does for mood. I was in a slump for a few days, slightly depressed, generally irritable, not TOM for me, so not PMS. Did that great workout last night and today I've been so UP! Even long, busy, hard workday didn't get me antsy as it usually does.
Oh, and no knee pain today, yay! I was a little stiff going down the stairs this morning, slight twinges behind both kneecaps, which used to be the precursor to bad pain, but it disappeared during the day, and didn't bother me again. I still think I better keep the running to a minimum, maybe twice a week, short sprints like yesterday. Hard though, because I love to run so much.
Decided to do a modified, sort of strange workout today. Did AMRAP workout B, but skipped lunges and ball crunches. I don't really care to see how many lunges I can do at 12.5 pounds, or how many ball crunches (a lot, I know). I wanted to save some energy to try out some of the moves in stage 2A. I was surprised to see how many deadlifts and lat pulldowns I could do at my starting weights, though. I did 65 lbs. on DL, 30 reps, could have done some more, but was getting bored with them so I stopped. Same with lats; did 60 reps at 50 lbs. and stopped with quite a few more in me. But DB shoulder presses were different; used 10 lbs. and got to 28, was losing form, shrugging with the reps at the end, and could MAYBE, POSSIBLY have done 1 more.
Then I got the 30lb. fixed weight BB to try FSPP. I can clean that up to my shoulders, and then spent some time with my grip, elbows, etc. to see what was comfortable. It does make a difference to have weight on the fingers, as opposed to a dowel at home, with the wrist flexibility. The weight makes the wrist fall back farther, and I think my elbows were farther up than they were at home with no weight. But it's not a comfortable grip yet. Did not notice the bar pressing on my windpipe like some people mention; wonder if that's my own body mechanics, or was I doing something wrong. Anyway, did three small sets of the squat press with that bar, 6 reps, 5 reps, 5 reps. The press part is not as hard as I thought it would be. I might be able to press more weight, but my wrists did bother me quite a bit, so I didn't want to try more.
I'll have to be careful with my wrists, especially my right; if I damage that I'll be out of work, and that's not going to be possible. Hopefully I'll get stronger and the wrist pain will ease.
One-point rows were fun, but tricky. I used 20lb. dumbbells, and was ok on my left leg, but my right leg is weaker, and that one was very shaky. Hard to tell if it's better to lock the knee or leave it slightly bent. Not specified in the book, so I'm going to do what works best for me. Did 2 sets of 10, 5 on each leg.
Tested out the lunges with rear foot elevated, with 15lb. dumbbells. Have to remember that my right leg is my non-dominant one, even though I'm right handed. Started with left in front and they were easy, then switched legs and about died on my right! Burns the quads so much with right leg in front.
Did one plank for 60 seconds. Could hold it fine, but I was very trembly in whole body. Haven't done planks in a while.
Cable woodchops are going to be fun. I can really feel them in my obliques. Only did one set on each side, with 15 lbs. I know I can use more when I do them for real.
Then after all that, I did (shame, shame) interval sprints on the treadmill. I couldn't help it, I wanted to do them so badly because they are fun. But I knew after the second sprint that I shouldn't be doing them; started feeling shin splint pain. But being stubborn (or stupid) me, I kept on for a few more times. Now my shins are achy, and I absolutely MUST not run again for a week. I'll do intervals on the bike or stepper next time.
Good point; I hadn't thought of it that way. Now, by cheating, do you mean those guys who load up the weight, grab the bar, and lean back with every rep while pulling it down really fast? I see that a lot, and it was definitely not how I was taught to use the lat pulldown. It makes me laugh, but then, perhaps they think it's working their core more that way?
Yeah, the leaning back and rocking back to get the weight stack is cheating, and potentially very dangerous.
By the way, what is AMRAP? I've seen this acronym, but I don't know what it means. Is it NROL specific?
By the way, what is AMRAP? I've seen this acronym, but I don't know what it means. Is it NROL specific?
It's used in NROLFW, it means, "as many reps as possible"; and is used a gauge of your progress after stage 1. You do all the stage one workouts, 8 each of A and B, then you do one more of each with one set for every exercise, using the weights you used in the very first workout, but doing AMRAP.
Not sure if it's my imagination but I think the bar on those weighted bars are thicker than the barbell. I also found that when I did the Front Squat/Push Press II was obsessing about keeping my elbows parallel with the ground and I didn't have to. Keep up the good work!
Not sleeping well lately. Having the house to myself for the last week (kids at camp, hubby on trip) has made me alter my regular patterns. Staying up later, mostly on here reading, and reading, and reading. . .it's dangerously habit forming! Doing HIIT too late at night, then trying to sleep is not good. Slept ok last night, but not great. Then I promised I'd take today off from exercise entirely, but couldn't go through with it. Had to do some, so I did some HIIT again, 20 mins, then 15 on elliptical.
Now I'm eating dinner, at 10pm, because I wasn't hungry at all after work. Hope I sleep tonight.
Ordered a GWF today, after reading (most of) the thread on the Fat Loss Troubleshoot forum about it. It will be nice to know how many cals I'm actually burning instead of estimating. My estimations always seem off; I eat what seems like a ton, but I'm still going down on the scale, and my clothes are all looser. Either I burn a hell of a lot of calories just living, or I have cancer! (That's the trouble with us people in medical; we start to think that since so many of our patients have problems, we do too!)
And the scale still goes down. . . .121 today, and I'm in the middle of a rest week. Why, why, why is it going down? Over the past month I have averaged 2000 cals a day, and I don't feel like I look like I'm losing fat. Logical conclusion is I'm losing LBM instead of fat, but with my workouts I don't see how that's possible. I was expecting to gain weight with the NROLFW workouts. At the same time, I don't see how I can possibly eat more in a day than I have been. Sometimes I have to force myself to eat as it is, just to keep to what I thought was maintenance. Really looking forward to getting my GWF so I can do some tracking of burn. Maybe I'm really off what I thought I was doing.
I do notice, though, that my weight started dropping right about when I lowered my carbs. Maybe I have lost fat, and I'm just holding water. Maybe I'll do some investigating on the Fat Loss Troubleshoot forum.
Hooray! My GWF just got delivered! Off to figure out how to use it.
So, first full day, yesterday, of wearing GWF. Seems to correlate with what I'm seeing on scale. I ate 2130 cals, and GWF shows almost 2500 burn. And I didn't even exercise! Wonder what the numbers will be with exercise.
Read on a log somewhere that sometimes you have to drop below desired weight to drop to desired fat%, then build back up with muscle. Maybe that's what I'm aiming for, and didn't even know it! Wish I knew my %; will have to get that done somehow. I would like to maintain 125, but with BF% under 20, maybe 18. Have to get more numbers.
Give your GWF a few days to get used to you. Mine showed really high numbers at first, and then dropped down a bit. I think it kind of learns your "lows" over time.
Give your GWF a few days to get used to you. Mine showed really high numbers at first, and then dropped down a bit. I think it kind of learns your "lows" over time.
Have fun with it.
Oh, thanks, Annette, for spoiling the party!
But you're right, I did just read something on the GWF site about it "learning" you over time, but it was a vague reference. I'm having fun with it anyway.
I think like many people here, I'm going to be surprised at how much NEAT burns; I work a very active job in a hospital, walking all day, standing, pushing heavy equipment around, and now I think the only way I was maintaining my weight where it was before I started NROLFW was all that cake and junk I was eating!
Now my diet's healthier, I don't have those fat and sugar calories to hold weight on me, I've been dropping. Hopefully fat. Thinking of buying a fat monitor. Anyone have any suggestions? I saw a handheld one by I think Omron, on Amazon. I don't need the weight scale part, and this one is just fat %, I think. Or calipers--can you possibly caliper yourself? Cheaper option. Any thoughts anybody?
Still in my rest week between stage 1 and 2. Will do a practice run of 2A and 2B tomorrow and Thursday, because I have vacation next week and won't be near a gym. Don't want to really start stage 2 until I'm back.
HIIT last night, one minute sprints with 2.5-3.5mph walk between
6.5, 7.2, 7.9, 8.6, 9.3, and at the end, just for fun, I tried 10mph. Only made 30 seconds there.
I find the Omron highly unreliable. Especially, when compared to the other measurement methods I currently use. Others like to use it for tracking, but I just gave up on it because it was so unreliable for me. It takes into consideration your age (which I hate), and your level of hydration (which, for me, can vary), and it just didn't come close to numbers I was getting via other methods, which are more reliable. I just don't hold any of the bioimpedence devices in high regard, based on my experience.
I do the BodPod twice a year and I have 7-site caliper measurements done monthly by the same qualified person at the same time of day each month. You can't do calipers on yourself.
I'm also getting a Dexa scan done for other reasons, but that will also give me another accurate BF measurement.
Or, post your pics and we can take a stab at guessing for you.
Slightly confused about the conflicting information about whether it's possible to lose fat while gaining muscle. People on here say it's one or the other, but many books, trainers, people etc., including NROLFW talk about body recomposition, meaning replacing fat with muscle. Lou does, when he talks early in the book about his hypothetical woman lifter who gains 9 pounds of muscle while losing the same weight of fat,making her smaller at the same weight. So how is it not possible to do both at the same time??
I think it's possible... and for me, I know it's possible
I've done it at a 500 calorie deficit with ease and at a 750 - 800 calorie deficit with great difficulty. Here's hoping it's possible for you too!
Slightly confused about the conflicting information about whether it's possible to lose fat while gaining muscle. People on here say it's one or the other, but many books, trainers, people etc., including NROLFW talk about body recomposition, meaning replacing fat with muscle. Lou does, when he talks early in the book about his hypothetical woman lifter who gains 9 pounds of muscle while losing the same weight of fat,making her smaller at the same weight. So how is it not possible to do both at the same time??
I know from my own experience that its possible. But, I think it happens predominantly in one of two situations; the untrained, or by accident. I've definitely put on muscle while losing fat. But, I've probably lost 30lbs. of fat and put on 2lbs of muscle. Because fat loss was my goal. If muscle gain was my goal I might have put on 5 pounds of muscle and lost 5 pounds of fat....or even gained 5 pounds of fat. But, I bet if I tried to do both I'd have lost 3 pounds of fat and gained a half a pound of muscle in the same time.
It clearly happens. The body is constantly breaking down and repairing muscle. So, in every case you're constantly gaining and losing LBM. But, I think you still need to focus on one goal at a time.
I've always thought that you could just eat at maintenance and work really hard and you would do both. Perhaps that is true. But, how long would it take? I don't know.
Or, post your pics and we can take a stab at guessing for you.
So, you favor the scientific method, then.
I've been thinking of posting pics, but haven't gotten up the nerve. And, my husband would scoff himself silly if he found out! (not that that would stop me, if I decided to do it, of course )
I know from my own experience that its possible. But, I think it happens predominantly in one of two situations; the untrained, or by accident. I've definitely put on muscle while losing fat. But, I've probably lost 30lbs. of fat and put on 2lbs of muscle. Because fat loss was my goal. If muscle gain was my goal I might have put on 5 pounds of muscle and lost 5 pounds of fat....or even gained 5 pounds of fat. But, I bet if I tried to do both I'd have lost 3 pounds of fat and gained a half a pound of muscle in the same time.
It clearly happens. The body is constantly breaking down and repairing muscle. So, in every case you're constantly gaining and losing LBM. But, I think you still need to focus on one goal at a time.
I've always thought that you could just eat at maintenance and work really hard and you would do both. Perhaps that is true. But, how long would it take? I don't know.
Yeah, the focusing on one at a time is what I have decided, sort of by default, that I have to do. Mainly because over the last 6 weeks I have lost a lot of weight (for me), and wasn't trying at all. I guess I'll aim for my ideal bf%, then work on increasing muscle size, because right now, at 120.5, my clothes are falling off me, and I feel too small.
But, then to gain muscle size, will I have to increase calories above maintenance, and just make sure it's a lot of protein, and lift heavy weights like crazy?
Yeah, the focusing on one at a time is what I have decided, sort of by default, that I have to do. Mainly because over the last 6 weeks I have lost a lot of weight (for me), and wasn't trying at all. I guess I'll aim for my ideal bf%, then work on increasing muscle size, because right now, at 120.5, my clothes are falling off me, and I feel too small.
But, then to gain muscle size, will I have to increase calories above maintenance, and just make sure it's a lot of protein, and lift heavy weights like crazy?
Yep. You'll gain some fat, too, in a bulk, which is why you'll see most do it in cycles. Bulk for a bit, then cut again, rinse and repeat.
Yep. You'll gain some fat, too, in a bulk, which is why you'll see most do it in cycles. Bulk for a bit, then cut again, rinse and repeat.
So, then, I have to bulk up more muscle than I think I'll lose in another cut, or I won't be any farther ahead. Because if I can't gain muscle without gaining some fat, and I can't lose fat without losing some muscle, how will I ever get bigger muscles with less fat? Sounds like a catch-22.
I had never heard of cycling; I'm starting to get it now. I figured I could just do the NROL workouts and BAM, I'd be more muscular and less fat, without thinking too much about it.
I guess that explains why I never had the physique I wanted, even with all my working out. Maybe I should aim for an even lower bf% now, before I try the bulking? I mean, since I'll gain some fat back anyway. . . .if I want 18%, then if I lose to say, 16%, then bulk, will I end up at 18 with bigger muscles?
Ok; for my reference, here is the pertinent section of that article:
Ok, enough theory crap. Based on the above data, here’s what I would generally recommend to bodybuilders or athletes who want to put on muscle mass (i.e. all of them).
If you’re above 15% body fat (about 24-27% for women), diet first. If you can get to the 10-12% (19-24%) body fat range or so, I think you’ll be in an overall better position to gain mass. Trying to get super lean will probably end up screwing you in the long run because your body will be primed to put back fat on (and most other physiological systems are screwed up as well) when you get super lean.
After finishing your diet, regardless of how lean you get, take 2 weeks to eat at roughly maintenance calorie levels before starting your mass gaining phase. The reason has to do with the physiological adaptations to dieting described briefly above. Although you can’t reverse all of them short of getting fat again (or fixing the problem pharmaceutically), 2 weeks at maintenance, which by definition should be higher calories than you were eating on your diet, will help to normalize some of them. Leptin, thyroid, SNS output should improve a bit, along with other hormones, putting you in a better place to gain mass without super excessive fat gain. Make sure to get at least 100 grams of carbs/day or more during this phase so that thyroid will come back up.
Only try to add mass/bulk until you hit the top end body fat percentage listed in #1 above. So that’s about 15% body fat for men and 24-27% body fat for women. What this would mean in practice is that you diet to 10-12% body fat for men (22-24% for women), eat at maintenance for two weeks to try and normalize things, and then add mass until you hit 15% body fat for men (22-24% for women) and then diet back down. Over a number of cycles, you should be able to increase your muscle mass while keeping body fat under control
If this theory is correct, then I really need to get my body fat number. Because my gut instinct is that I am probably at the low end of that range he has for women, or even lower.
Thanks, missjane. I just took a look at your log, and saw your pics. So, is this cycling what you have been doing for a while now? I will have to go back and read more of your log, but it's intimidating, with over 100 pages! And btw, I have that exact same bikini! And, I think we have more or less the same body type/shape. Can I ask what your bf% is now, when you took those pics?
I haven't started a bulk phase yet, as I've been in fat loss mode. Hopefully, the bulk will start in the Fall sometime, as I maintain thru the summer. The goal for summer is to maintain LBM and maybe lose a bit more fat, as I am now hovering at the higher BF number that Lyle speaks of.
When I talk about cycling in the confines of my log, I am talking about carb cycling, which is how I eat. Bulking/Cutting cycling is whole different ballgame (although I may have unintentionally bulked a time or two)
So, then, I have to bulk up more muscle than I think I'll lose in another cut, or I won't be any farther ahead. Because if I can't gain muscle without gaining some fat, and I can't lose fat without losing some muscle, how will I ever get bigger muscles with less fat? Sounds like a catch-22.
The missing ingredient is this; you gain and lose muscle mass at a much slower rate than fat. It takes a long time to put on ten pounds of muscle. And it takes a long time to lose ten pounds of muscle. But, how long does it take to lose ten pounds of fat. For most people about ten weeks. But, short of some severe marathon workout and huge deficit, it would take years to lose ten pounds of muscle.
So, you put on five pounds of muscle and five pounds of fat over the course of 6 months. But, you cut for five weeks and lose the five pounds of fat, and one pound of muscle. At that point you've gained four pounds of lean mass with no additional body fat. Do it again and now you're 8 pounds heavier which is all solid muscle. 8 pounds of lean body mass with no additional fat in one year would be very impressive. Of course, I'm using simple numbers but you get the idea.
Aha; I like the way you explain it, Chad. Now I don't feel so overwhelmed and uncertain. You and Jane are really helping me see how the science of it works out in real life. At least, how I'm hoping it works out for me. . .
Amazing how little I understood before I found this forum!
Body recomposition is indeed possible - I think Kristen (Sidonia) is a prime example of that. Looking at her scale weight, it looks like she hasn't lost much at all, but the pictures tell a radically different story.
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Tom
No "happy hours" makes for a lot of miserable days. - Mahler
Well, I sort of took a break from my counted, careful eating today. (Although I still logged in Fitday what I ate.) I gave myself my promised reward for finishing stage 1 of NROLFW, and went and had a bra fitting. Good timing, too, since with the scale drop of the last few weeks, my chest has lost almost 2 inches, and my old bras were getting loose. I bought one new bra that goes well with a lot of my shirts, and one sports bra, which, as Kathairein said hers is, is "a miracle of engineering." I wanted to get more, but the store was waaaaaay pricey, so I limited myself.
After that, I went to Pizzaria Uno, one of my all time favorite restaurants since I was in high school in Boston when the chain first opened. And what did I have, you ask? Did I have the low-carb, low-fat grilled chicken and veggie wrap? Did I have the low cal vegetable soup? NO! I had a Caesar salad and an individual size Chicago Classic pizza! Now, for those of you who have never eaten at this restaurant, this pizza is a deeeeep dish, piled with cheese, sausage, fresh tomatoes, and more sausage and more cheese, and refined white flour buttery crust. Way yummy. Best pizza on earth. I chowed half the pizza there, and brought the other half home and yes, I plan to have it for dinner. So much for my calorie/carb/fat counting for today!
I did have the waitress print out the nutrition information for the two dishes so I could enter them in Fitday. I haven't even eaten the second half yet, and already my cals for the day are over 2000. Ah well. I have to live, and it was my reward day.
However, I slightly redeemed myself by going to the gym and doing Stage 2, workout B this afternoon. I was only going to do a light run through of this workout to get the feel of the exercises, but when I got there I felt so good that I did almost a full out try. I like this workout. Better than A.
So here is my (sort of real) first attempt at Stage 2 Workout B
Wide grip deadlift from box: 65/10, 85/10
Bulgarian split squat: 10/10, 10/10
Underhand grip lat pulldown: 80/2, 90/8, 90/10
Reverse lunge from box with forward reach: 5/10, 10/10
Prone Cuban snatch: 5/10, 5/10
Ball crunch: 4/15, 4/15 medicine ball long lever crunch
Reverse crunch: 15 X 2
Hanna flexion 1: 10 X 2
Prone cobra: 60 secs. X 2
Sprint intervals: 6.5, 7.0, 7.5, 8.0, 9.0
The deadlift wide grip was hard for me. The first set was ok, but then I meant to add 10 lbs, but added 2 10 lb. plates by mistake, so it was 85. My grip about gave out on the last few reps. I think I was trying to grip it too wide. Also, too busy in the freeweight room to get an aerobic step, so I used the built in step on the BB end of the bench. So, when I squatted down to grab the bar, I was about sitting on the bench. Also, I think that step was too high.
I like the split squats. I will definitely add weight next time. Only hard part is my foot started hurting having it bent with top of foot flat on bench.
Reverse lunge is a strange movement, reminiscent of step ups, but not as hard. Easier to fire the glutes for me with this one than step ups. Can definitely add weight to this too. I wanted to get the feel of it first.
Cuban snatch is ok. I have been having some pain in my rotator cuff area, worse on left, lately, so I worried about these. Think it was the FSPP I practiced last week that did something to the delt area, now it's sore when I lift arm in that 90 degree position. But it wasn't so bad during the snatches.
I liked the ab work on this workout. A nice break from the heavy stuff.
Now off I go to finish my fat laden pizza delicacy. . . ..hungry!
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