The Dairy Farm

[Pips]

I don't drink coffee! I'll try and suggest putting salt in it to people though.. just to see what their reaction will be

I did get tired after about 5 weeks in on my first deficit cycle, I started taking multivitamins, those helped a lot. So I believe you on the feeling energetic I guess I'll have to read up on my minerals and how they work together... bleh. Most nutrition labels here don't have info on the minerals though, so its gonna be tricky to keep track of those

Oh, today's and tomorrow's menu has changed... cooking at L.'s place, he's eating half my chickpeas and rice, so I can eat something else tomorrow, and I ate some cherries today that I found in his fridge. And I got a cute new coriander plant, so topping my dinner with some cilantro

[Naive]

I love coffee. And cilantro. Thanks for reminding me to take my multivitamins.

[Pips]

Weight's going down again (wasn't worried that it wouldn't, but it seems I have nothing even remotely interesting to post, so I'll just mention it).

Leigh's article on bulkiness has made me wonder once again what the difference between being strong and being muscular is. Strength vs hypertrophy. What do hypertrophied muscle fiber look like? What does strong muscle fiber look like? What does either look look like on a person? Why is doing 5-6 reps* strength training, and 7-12 reps* hypertrophy? How does this stuff work!

In my mind, I compare strength in muscles with the flavor in organicly grown tomatoes vs that in omatoes that are grown as quick and big as possible. Organic tomatoes are full of flavor, whereas the ones that are grown faster taste more watery.

So.. strong muscles are dense and strong (and might eventually get as big as hypertrophied muscle?), whereas hypertrophied muscle is not-so-dense and not strong (but might get more dense over time, when they can't grow any bigger?). Does form follow function?

I want to be strong, and think I prefer the look of strong vs the look of hypertrophied muscles. I guess I'll have to research this in order to determine which look I want, eventually.

* don't nitpick on these numbers please, I was too lazy to look up the actual numbers

[Espi]

There's a different look for people that are either 'lean & strong' versus 'lean & muscular' .. the former don't look strong but ARE strong, the latter look strong but sometimes aren't strong.

Believe me.. the very biggest of bodybuilders are immensely strong guys! It's the runner-up guys/gals that aren't as strong.
For someone who's performance-oriented , being strong is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more interesting than looking strong.

Strength increase is more in the 1 to 6 rep range.. not just 5-6 reps.
Most Olympic lifters (those aren't so much crazy strong but crazy fast & strong) only do 1 up to 3 reps, which isn't enough to hypertrophy on.. since you need VOLUME for that as well as some lactic acid buildup.
Most powerlifters OTOH train in the 1 up to 6 rep range but will also do auxilliary exercises in the 6-12 rep range to help with weaknesses. This is why powerlifters or strongmen look more like bodybuilders than Olympic lifters do.

[Juleske]

hypertrophy = how big your muscles are
strength = how much of your muscle power you use.

The way I understand it, many people only use about 70% of their muscle power (no clue where I read that number). Strength training helps you engage the other 30% percent.

It doesn't do this by making your muscles firmer, but by training your neurological response to pulling stuff. Your brain inhibits your strength to protect you.

Just like when you need to learn how to hit someone with full strength in karate. At the start you can't do it, you're holding yourself back, consicously but also neurologically. Strength training trains your muscle response to activate more. There is no "strength" look, there's only a strength response.

Now you're pulling more weight, but you're not gaining muscle. Of course, once you get to 100%, you can either gain more muscle or accept that you're not going to be able to increase weights.

So, I don't think there's a "strength" look vs a "muscle look". But you can decide how much muscle you want to have, and how much visible muscle you want to have. Because if you want to see that real muscle definition you have to go and stay pretty low bodyfat wise.

(If I say something that's all wrong, please to correct!)

[scribess]

Leigh's article got me thinking about what look I want, as well. I decided that in general I like the overall look of the "bulky" women better than I did the "not bulky" women, though honestly I don't have to reach Tina's level. However, I also didn't despise the "not bulky" look. Like Espi, I think (well, once I hit my goal BF%) that I'm more concerned with performance rather than appearance. So we'll see.

[Espi]

And it's also not like you're going to get bulky within a very short period of time : that's a function of eating a LOT of food & proper training.

Especially when I'd want to resume cycling again (not very likely) being as strong as I can while having a relatively low BW will be way more functional than being bigger.

As for the neurological aspect, that's what will improve with training but is also highly genetical. Also gender-specific.. most women don't engage as many muscles at the same time like men do.. UNLESS there's a real emergency and women are known to be beastly insanely strong in those cases!

PS: Pips, I've just put sea salt in my drinking water.. didn't taste too bad either.. actually it's making me thirsty.. not very surprising! Must have been too much salt!

[Juleske]

Once I fit into my pants, I'm done with bodyrecomp. I'll be the same size as I always was, only now with a bit of muscle instead of just more fat. That's all I ever wanted. I'll continue training, but it'll be more for health and strength than a body goal. Unless I really get itchings to get a muscle back. Or if I get married. Then all bets are off

[Pips]

Just curious how musles get bigger and/or stronger. That, and trying to decide what look I want. I think I wanna look lean.. low BF%, with visible muscles. The plan is now:

1. get rid of excess bodyfat, to a normal weight (60kg / 132 lbs)
2. lose more BF% and gain strength!
3. check if muscles are big enough to archieve the look I want, if not, do a bit of hypertrophy
4. watch kcal intake for the rest of my life to keep the lean look

Of course, #2 and #3 need to be elaborated, and probably divided in more steps, but I'll go do that when I'm nearing the end of #1

[Juleske]

maybe you should gather some pictures of the look you want?

[stingo]

You might want to check out Leigh's site - she has a post there about women and muscles (particularly about bulking).

[scribess]

Erm, that's kinda what got Pips thinking about what look she'd like--she's already read Leigh's article.

[stingo]

Originally Posted by scribess

Erm, that's kinda what got Pips thinking about what look she'd like--she's already read Leigh's article.

So she has. Carry on.

[Pips]

*carries on with a picture of... Jillian Michaels!*


She may not be popular, but I love her arms!

I wonder how much BF% this is...

[kimikaw]

I have to say I love her arms too....I know I'm more towards the bulky side in preference and probably in body type.

This is my ideal pic...

Most definitely of the Amazon Woman proportions

[scribess]

Originally Posted by Pips

*carries on with a picture of... Jillian Michaels!*


She may not be popular, but I love her arms!

I wonder how much BF% this is...

HA! That'd be a video I'd love to see Leigh do--analyzing the BF of celebrity fitness professionals (though I'm sure she'd catch a lot of flak for it--perhaps enough to rival her Defining Bulky article).

[Pips]

Originally Posted by Kimikaw

This is my ideal pic...
Most definitely of the Amazon Woman proportions

Oh, I think I'll like that one too if she wasn't flexing, Kimi!

Though I think the Amazon Women had more bodyfat...

[Juleske]

I liked how the 'amazonian' women looked! It's hard to find pictures out there of muscled women with non-contest levels of bodyfat.

[NYC_Native]

The fitness sphere has been buzzing w/that article by Leigh, so I'll have to finally read it tonight. (When not posting here, I've been unwinding on Facebook )

Gotta agree w/Kimikaw - that woman flexing in the picture looks terrific. I envy her legs!!!

[Naive]

Originally Posted by Pips

*carries on with a picture of... Jillian Michaels!*


She may not be popular, but I love her arms!

I wonder how much BF% this is...

The thing that struck me is that she still has fat on her thighs and for me, my boobs would be gone if I wanted to be that lean in my abs. LOL.....

[Pips]

Meh. Weightloss is easy, I don't have to do anything, just eat less. (Well, count a bit of kcal, but that's fun. Weight down to 66.9 kg by the way, its probably a fluke, and even if its not, it'll be up again tomorrow because of the lifting I'm gonna do. I wish I hadn't found out this correlation between going to the gym and my weight.)

Going to the gym is not so easy. I've not been there in ages, except once for Stage 4 Workout B4. Have to start on Stage 5, but can't get my act together.

Glad I came here to post about it, seeing the Jillian Michaels pic made me remember forumming and reading blogs about fatloss and body recomp are not what is gonna get me that body, going to the gym is! Seeing the pic seems to work better than reminding myself how good it feels to do heavy lat pulldowns, regardless of how much I like them. Thanks Jillian! Must remember this for future reference.

On a sidenote: just heard this guy say there's 4 grams of protein in a tablespoon of peanutbutter! WTF, PEANUTBUTTER!! Must get peanutbutter! Oh, and I just added a scoop of vanilla protein powder to my quark, tasted nice! Must remember to eat a couple of spoons before adding the powder though, or I can't stir properly.

I'll be off to the gym to get big arms as soon as my stomach stops feeling so full!

[Pips]

NROL4W stage 5, Workout A1: 4x4, 120sec rest between sets

A1: 1 arm db snatch: 16kg / 35.2# eventually
started off with 12, which was my weight on stage 3, then 14, then 2 sets with 16. I was positively surprised at how much I could at for a low-rep set
B1: db single leg romanian deadlift: 16kg / 35.2# eventually
same as with A1, started with 12, ended with 16. hurray for low-rep sets!
B2: barbell bentover row: 20kg / 44# (+bar)
Oops... that was supposed to be alternating sets.. I did B1 completely, and then B2. Bentover rows were very sloppy
C1: db single arm overhead squat: 5+10kg / 11+22#
still going very careful with this one, my back has problems resisting the twisty feel
C2: db incline bench press: 9kg / 19.8#
damn. started with 10kg, and couldn't get it up. felt really stupid. I did do the last set with 10kg though, just to show them!*
D1: plank: S1: 30 sec, S2: 36 sec
still hate planks. I'm just gonna do 1 plank each set, and try to make it as long as possible. 2 sets only today.
D2: reverse woodchop: 12.5kg / 27.5#
I'm not good at these, so I started low, but then decided I'd be stuck sucking at them if I didn't feel my muscles after my set, so upped to 12.5kg. I feel my muscles now
E: body weight matrix: gym was closing, didn't do them
tbh though, I don't think I'd have done them if the gym hadn't been closing. I'll try to do them either later today after a walk, or tomorrow after a walk.

I felt like an idiot waiting for 2 minutes betwen sets in an emty gym. I read on blogs people are annoyed by other people reading the newspaper in the gym, but I'm seriously considering bringing a book or something next time!

Glad I went though, I'll go again on Monday. The rest periods suck, but I like the low-rep high-weight stuff.

* them being the dumbells, as there weren't any people in the gym

[Pips]

Just found a nice explanation on strength vs hypertrophy on Rick Mayo's Blog:

First, let’s explore the best ways to gain muscle. We must first understand the muscle growth (hypertrophy) principles, as well as the factors which affect it. Hypertrophy is the increase in muscle size as overcompensation for micro-trauma due to overuse. The two principal types of hypertrophy are myofibrillar hypertrophy, and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

Myofibrillar hypertrophy is an enlargement of the contractile fibers (myofibrils). This type of hypertrophy is accompanied by the ability to exert muscular strength and is developed with low rep/heavy weight training (1-5 reps). This type of hypertrophy results in a much more dense and strong (functional) muscle.

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, on the other hand is the increase in the volume of the non-contractile muscle cell fluid, sarcoplasm. This type of hypertrophy is accompanied by an increased resistance to muscular fatigue which is the result of a bodybuilding based routine (multiple sets/10-15 reps per set). This cell fluid accounts for 20-30% of the muscle size. This is type of hypertrophy may be desirable if you compete in bodybuilding but may not give you the ideal body for an evening gown.

So muscles ARE just like tomatoes!

[Pips]

Does anyone else feel uneducated and inadequate when reading fitness-sites that make fun of other people's training schedules?

I know where I wanna go (sortof), but no idea how to get there, I just follow a schedule from a book... At least I'm fairly confident that this one is a decent schedule, but I do not have enough knowledge to recognise a bad schedule if it hit me on the head.

Meh.

Ate too much today, got hungry from the workout I guess. At least its not junkfood.

[stingo]

Where do you want to go?

[Pips]

Originally Posted by Stingo

Where do you want to go?

I'm leaning towards figure athlete: lean with visible muscles.

Been reading a lot of articles on figureathlete.com yesterday, cuz Leigh said something like: If you wanna look like something, train like that something. Anyhoo, first I still need to shed a LOT of fat. I got till September to figure out what kinda training would be best for me

Weight's only slightly up today despite the workout and the eating above maintenance, +0.2 kg makes 67.1 kg (147.6 lbs). My belly looked very flat today (well, not flat flat, but flat for me!), as opposed to yesterday. I like it when the mirror shows what the scale indicates

I can feel my biceps and hamstrings from yesterday, but they're not sore or anything. Today will be only walking and cycling.

Slept horribly due to a mosquito in my room. I always believed they only stung you once, before they were done, but this bugger stung me at least 5 times! I was on time to put some stuff on the spots so they're not itchy, fortnuately.

[Pips]

Ouch, my rear delts...

There's a fair in our street today, and our local fitness and supplements shop (co-owned by a co-worker of mine, and another co-workers boyfriend) had a small competition: holding a dumbell in front of you with 2 arms, for 1 minute. 10kg (22lbs) for guys, 5kg (11lbs) for the ladies. Glad to say I made it the full minute, but I can sure feel my delts!

[Espi]

Originally Posted by Juleske

I liked how the 'amazonian' women looked! It's hard to find pictures out there of muscled women with non-contest levels of bodyfat.

My Oly BFF (best female friend) looks like that.. she's very Amazonian in proportions and has super-womanly strengths as she competes both in OL & PL.

Anyway , her forum name is Miss Deadlift (her PB here is 170kg?) and this is her avatar, where she is warming up with snatches. Since she trains with a 20kg Oly bar that's probably a 45kg snatch right there..

She most definitely has the dense myofibrillar hypertrophy going on for her since PL & OL is all about doing just 1 up to 3 maybe 5 reps.. anything over 5 reps is considered to be 'cardio'



As for the mosquitoes.. they must love how you smell either your skin or your breath is what attracts them.
We sleep underneath a mosquito netting (klamboe) since our windows can't be 'screened' . We could buy it locally in an outdoor sports store since there's such a high demand for it here. A lot of students spend time in countries with scary insect-borne diseases like malaria and none of them wants to contract it.

[scribess]

Originally Posted by Pips

Meh. Weightloss is easy, I don't have to do anything, just eat less. (Well, count a bit of kcal, but that's fun. )

You find counting calories fun? The more I learn about you, the more bizarre you seem.

Originally Posted by Pips

On a sidenote: just heard this guy say there's 4 grams of protein in a tablespoon of peanutbutter! WTF, PEANUTBUTTER!! Must get peanutbutter!

Originally Posted by Pips

I felt like an idiot waiting for 2 minutes betwen sets in an emty gym. I read on blogs people are annoyed by other people reading the newspaper in the gym, but I'm seriously considering bringing a book or something next time!

That's been one advantage of working out at home--I don't feel as stupid just sitting around during the rest times.

[Naive]

I LOVE PEANUTBUTTER!!!! That's all. Oh and if I could, I'd want to look like a figure athlete as well. But then I'd need to shed a bunch of fat and then go into a muscle building phase and then another cutting phase. So much effort!!! You have me thinking, though.