The Dairy Farm - Page 10

Pips · 08-20-2009, 09:04 AM

I keep hoping for martian ice sprinkles. No luck yet though.

Oh, and I ate half a pint of quark before bed

I'll buy some kefir today, I think I saw it right next to the quark!

Pips · 08-20-2009, 10:41 AM

The nutrition values on the kefir were no good. I did find this though:

About the same values as my quark cheese!

Only lots more expensive: 98 eurocents for 170 grams vs 45 eurocents for 500 grams. Gonna try it anyway. It might also be a nice replacement of the quark for L., who can't stand the quark.

Oh, and: "Q: Can vegetarians eat TOTAL Greek Yoghurt? A: Yes, the TOTAL range is approved by The Vegetarian Society."

scribess · 08-20-2009, 10:59 AM

Yeah, kefir is (relatively) lower in protein and higher in carbs. I use it primarily for the probiotics, as a switch from yogurt.

Fage Greek yogurt is expensive around here, too. I keep watching for sales, but none really come up.

Espi · 08-20-2009, 11:06 AM

Straining el-cheapo yoghurt over coffee filter papers will yield the exact same thing as Fage yoghurt..
Roughly half of the liquid goes out as water so if it had 5gP/100g it will now have 5g/50g or 10g/100g.. presto! same protein content as Quark.

scribess · 08-20-2009, 11:10 AM

See, I've wondered about that because I'm not sure what nutrients/calories are lost when draining out the whey. (The increase in protein content in the strained yogurt has confused me esp. because whey protein powder, I assume, is dessicated liquid whey. So liquid whey would have protein, right?

) Guess I could poke around and see if I can find nutrition values for liquid whey, weigh the drained liquid, and then subtract those values from the original value of the yogurt.

ETA: Found it on nutritiondata:

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/d...products/102/2

I think whey from yogurt would be considered "sweet whey" since yogurt is closer to cottage cheese than rennet cheese (well, as far as I know):

http://www.bythewhey.com/acid_ sweet_nutrition.html

So it looks like per cup/whey, a minimal amount of protein is lost from the yogurt, but way more carbs, which explains the higher protein content of Greek yogurt. So that's cool!

But now I'm wondering how the carbs are removed from the liquid whey to make protein powder.

Espi · 08-20-2009, 11:16 AM

The liquid would have a very small amount of whey but it would not be much.
Besides, nowadays whey protein powder is not made like they used to in the old days as a by-product from making cheese.
I'd assume there will be less whey in yoghurt liquids than in say quark liquids. But overall, I really don't eat enough dairy to really worry about it. It's all about flavour for me. Undrained quark/yoghurt/cc is just acid. When you drain/strain it, it turns into a non-acid version.

But hey, Pips, I came in for another question.. so we have a ton of Africans here in Wageningen & hence it's easy to find African foods.. however what the heck does one do with plantains? Other than making a fruity dish.. I thought to just replace rice/quinoa/amaranth/potatoes with the plantains.
Would salmon & plantains combine well?

Pips · 08-20-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scribess

See, I've wondered about that because I'm not sure what nutrients/calories are lost when draining out the whey. (The increase in protein content in the strained yogurt has confused me esp. because whey protein powder, I assume, is dessicated liquid whey. So liquid whey would have protein, right?

) Guess I could poke around and see if I can find nutrition values for liquid whey, weigh the drained liquid, and then subtract those values from the original value of the yogurt.

I wondered the same thing, scribess!

I've also been concerned about what type of rennet they used to make my quark cheese... it only says "milk, lactobacilli" in the ingredients. That doesn't sound like rennet at all! Maybe my cheese isn't even technically cheese?

Pips · 08-20-2009, 11:24 AM

Never heard of plaintains... wiki sais "bakbanaan".. I suppose you bake 'em? I'm not really much of a culinairy person

And: fish are friends, not food!

scribess · 08-20-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Espi

The liquid would have a very small amount of whey but it would not be much.
Besides, nowadays whey protein powder is not made like they used to in the old days as a by-product from making cheese.
I'd assume there will be less whey in yoghurt liquids than in say quark liquids. But overall, I really don't eat enough dairy to really worry about it. It's all about flavour for me. Undrained quark/yoghurt/cc is just acid. When you drain/strain it, it turns into a non-acid version.

I've heard differently--I thought all the liquid drained from yogurt is whey (I'm unfamiliar with the quark-making process so I can't speak to that; maybe it's already drained):

"To drain yogurt: Turkish cooks eliminate yogurt’s sour taste by draining it for several hours. The whey is discarded, and the yogurt is used as is or thinned with water. To drain yogurt, line a strainer with a double layer of cheesecloth and set it over a bowl. Spoon in the quantity of yogurt called for by the recipe, cover with plastic wrap and let drain in the refrigerator overnight."

http://www.eatingwell.com/eat_drink/...in_yogurt.html

Actually first read about making "yogurt cheese" (essentially Fage/Greek style yogurt) in a book I have called Nourishing Traditions. The author, Sally Fallon, always referred to the liquid as whey. But the above link is the best I could find online in a couple minutes of searching that's not just from a message board/random blog.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pips

I wondered the same thing, scribess!

I've also been concerned about what type of rennet they used to make my quark cheese... it only says "milk, lactobacilli" in the ingredients. That doesn't sound like rennet at all! Maybe my cheese isn't even technically cheese?

Pips, honestly being a vegetarian, I wouldn't think you'd want your quark to use "real" rennet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rennet

I've heard nowadays that rennet's manufactured and not from an animal source, so maybe that's it.

Espi · 08-20-2009, 11:57 AM

Yes, I know the fluid would have whey but whey content is not more than 20% of total protein anyway.. so I'm not worrying too much about it.

As for the plantain, found this
http://www.5min.com/Video/Stump-the-...ocado-83227601

Pips · 08-20-2009, 12:27 PM

Fage tastes indeed the same as leaked-out quark

About the same consistancy, too. I'll give the other container to L. to see whether he likes it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scribess

Pips, honestly being a vegetarian, I wouldn't think you'd want your quark to use "real" rennet.

My quark using animal-derived rennet is what I'm concerned about! There's also macrobial rennet though, so some cheeses are safe. This quark however doesn't even seem to be cheese...

Foods: 1,219 kcal
Activities: 1,921 kcal
Deficit: 702 kcal

Espi · 08-20-2009, 12:38 PM

AFAIK/R, quark is not made with rennet, but I could be wrong.

BTW, when I said 20% whey i referred to milk. In quark, most if not all of the milk will already have been drained I suppose... not sure how this goes with yoghurt.

Pips · 08-20-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Espi

AFAIK/R, quark is not made with rennet, but I could be wrong.

you're probably right. but then its not technically a cheese. it never really struck me as cheese tbh...

EDIT:

DOH! "Quark is a member of the acid set cheese group, meaning it is traditionally made without the aid of rennet." Yay, no more worrying!

Turns out the use of rennet is not needed to make it technically be cheese either...

scribess · 08-20-2009, 12:51 PM

Oh, now I get what you mean, Espi. You meant that whey was 20% of the content in the milk itself. I thought you meant actual whey was a tiny portion of the drained liquid itself and the rest was water.

I'm interested in the nutrition of the whey particularly since I make my own yogurt. When tracking yogurt in FitDay I use generic data based on the milkfat percentage of the milk I used, but of course it could be off. So if I were to drain my yogurt, I'd want to account for taking out the whey best I can, and it seems like I'd get the most accurate data if I weighed the whey and subtracted those numbers from the yogurt. Make sense?

Since I haven't been draining my yogurt (I had on occasion before I started tracking food intake) it's currently got all the whey in it. I wouldn't be surprised if commercial suppliers drain at least some some of the whey before putting their yogurt on the shelves--which would then mean my own yogurt figures are all the more inaccurate. Oh well.

scribess · 08-20-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pips

you're probably right. but then its not technically a cheese. it never really struck me as cheese tbh...

EDIT:

DOH! "Quark is a member of the acid set cheese group, meaning it is traditionally made without the aid of rennet." Yay, no more worrying!

Espi · 08-20-2009, 01:19 PM

Yep.. when I looked up Quark the other day I thought to have remembered something about it not using rennet to make it but a different method.
Miss sock puppeteer: now I get why you're so interested. Maybe really look up how yoghurt is actually made = whether some of the liquids are drained or not.
All I care about is that the yoghurt I like best of all is 'set/cultured' in the pot itself and is called 'standyoghurt' in Dutch as opposed to the 'roer' (stirring) yoghurt that is poured into the container and where the bacteria cultures have stopped working.
The stand yoghurt is more dense and has liquid on top/sides.. it tastes far better and also seems to have less lactose (more of the lactose has been converted by the industrious bacteria that are allowed to do their work for longer)

scribess · 08-20-2009, 02:39 PM

Sorry for the hijack, Pips

*continues hijack anyway*

That's very interesting about "stand" vs. roer/"sitting" yogurt. In the States we just look for yogurt that "contains live and active cultures" to ensure there's still active bacteria present.

Another reason I started making my own yogurt was because I could let it ferment longer. I don't think I have any dairy issues, but I can be prone to digestive stuff, so it did appeal to me that I could let bacteria eat up the lactose longer if I made it on my own. I typically incubate my yogurt for 12 hours, and it has a lot of whey on the top when it's done.

Pips · 08-20-2009, 05:19 PM

I don't mind (though I'm still considering renaming my log "the dairy farm"

)

Pips · 08-21-2009, 02:31 AM

Ah. The english Wiki entry says quark can either be made with rennet (eastern europe) or without rennet (western europe).

The dutch wiki entry, along with some other dutch websites, do mention rennet. It seems they are just... wrong!

Can anyone explain what this means: "Acidification continues until the pHreaches 4.6, which causes precipitation of the casein proteins."

Espi · 08-21-2009, 08:34 AM

Precipitation is just 'settling' ...

Milk is actually a suspension/emulsion of fat & protein in water. Adding an acid will cause the fat & protein to separate from the water, where the fat will float up & the protein will settle down.
This is more or less the simple explanation of it.

Oh.. and by all means, do rename your log/journal into 'The Dairy Farm' or "The Quark Monster'

Just PM one of the mods, like LostDog.

Pips · 08-21-2009, 09:06 AM

So what happens to the Whey Proteins? Cuz milk is Whey Proteins + Casein Proteins, isn't it?

Espi · 08-21-2009, 09:28 AM

Forgot about that one.. see I said 'the simple explanation'. Casein protein has a high molecular weight (AFAIK) while whey has a low molecular weight, which is why whey tends to float & casein sinks.. (I think).

But you'd really need the Cheese 101 class Or 'making cheese for dummies'

Pips · 08-21-2009, 01:31 PM

Hm, breaking in the new hiking boots isn't fun. The balls of my foot go numb after 10 minutes of walking and get really warm. I don't think this is a good sign. I think I roll my foot properly, and the shoes aren't too tight or anything. Not sure whether I should persist or give up.

Found some blackberries in the forest, picked some, and stuffed them in a container in the fridge for use tomorrow

Foods: 1,292 kcal
Activities: 1,939 kcal
Deficit: 647 kcal

Got a recipe for Spiced Lentil Tacos that I want to try tomorrow - I'll eat 1 taco tomorrow for dinner, and the other 3 on Sunday. Also wanna experiment with cocoa in my quark cheese - I want chocolate mousse

Moondust · 08-21-2009, 01:53 PM

Pips, I hope you have a better outcome with the hiking boots than I have had.
Boots that are highly waterproof will definitely make your foot warm. Are they also insulated? The numbness you are having does not sound good. Are you wearing nice thick socks, and preferably a double layer? If all else fails, hike in your comfortable tennies or running shoes like I do! If you are concerned about your feet getting wet, you can carry plastic bags (like bread comes in) and put them on over over your socks when wetness threatens. Your shoes might get wet but your feet will stay dry. As soon as the shoes dry out a little, take the plastic bags off. I know many tricks like that because I have yet to find an acceptable hiking boot.
Here's some info about fitting boots.

Pips · 08-21-2009, 02:32 PM

Its only the balls of my feet that get warm, where they get numb. I wear 2 layers of socks: 1 pair of thin socks, and 1 pair of thicker heavier socks.

I have to send the non-fitting and alternative models shoes back to the shop tomorrow, but I'm getting very tempted to keep the other model that are comfy, just to see how my feet like them on a real walk. I can't return them any more after wearing them outdoors...

Pips · 08-21-2009, 04:39 PM

I now interrupt this *coughs* training log for an important message:

You can make icecream from quark cheese! I googled to find out whether its possible to freeze quark, and then came across a recipe on a bodybuilding forum (where else..)

I'm so getting an ice cream machine soon!

scribess · 08-22-2009, 10:17 AM

Very interesting--I guess it'd be similar to making frozen yogurt. Which I should do, as I have an ice cream maker myself. I've only used it once this season due to the deficit.

Pips · 08-22-2009, 10:37 AM

I always wanted one, since I'm a huge icecream fan. But I figured I'd be eating icecream on a daily basis if I ever bought one, so for safety reasons, I never did.

Espi · 08-22-2009, 11:09 AM

We lack the space for one, as otherwise I might have had one already, they aren't very expensive. But yeah, I'd totally eat too much ice cream (with a dairy allergy that's a huge no-no). Even fruit-sherbets would still run high in the calories... might want to explore making sherbets with low-to-no-calories sweeteners.. have got Xylitol at home now, but you need to be careful with polyols if you get my drift (running to bath rooms etc at high doses)

scribess · 08-22-2009, 12:20 PM

I just posted this on Espi's log--generally I'm able to take out my portion of ice cream or whatever, eat it, and then not have anymore, so that in and of itself isn't really a problem for me. But being in a deficit with very little room for such extras, my ice cream would get all hoarfrosty before I could finish it off. Freezer burn does not taste yummy.