Calling all butt-kickers and cheerleaders!

[Gen]

I did a bit of lifting yesterday. Annoyingly, I've lost a lot of strength. But today I'm all sore and that I love.

[Espi]

Major deficits don't allow for heavy and/or frequent training = pisses me off big time! You sound to be in a similar situation.
If you're really bored with an agressive deficit & I'm seeing you're complaining about strength loss.. it is worthwhile to push for body recomposition by eating over mtn on training days and under mtn on rest days.

If you shoot for 3 training days, you can still end up at a slight deficit with 4 rest days.. by making the deficit more agressive, the surplus on training days will work more anabolically.. again: my personal twist is to do a major carb-up the night before & shove in the carbs during a session but then abruptly cut things off by barely eating extra carbs after training as I figure that my glycogen stores were full to the brim & now my body only needs extra protein & fats to recover + build up muscle mass.

The carbs are just to fuel the workout as well as possible.. they aren't needed until the night before the next workout rolls around...

While most do this with small deficits & small surpluses, I've always enjoyed much bigger deficits & surpluses.. not sure which one works best, it's just what I like best . Again, this is what you can do if you're at a decently healthy BW & just want to lose fluff while getting as strong as you can be...

[Gen]

Pisses me off too! I'm so much happier when I do more training. I like when I'm sore from lifting and I like when I run more, so that's what I'm going to do for a while. What you said about diet is basically what I was planning. A couple (1 or 2) very low days and then mostly moderate and just eat for workout days. I'll go back to working out often and hard. This low cal, low intensity stuff just doesn't work for me = super depressed.

Maybe I'll sneak in a very low cal/ rest week here and there (once every 4 to 5 weeks) to see if I can lose a bit because physiologically it does work, and I can handle one week, just not many back to back.

Thanks for the advice too; I value it.

[Espi]

Yep, rest weeks can be used to do a more agressive deficit. Back in my insulin resistant days I couldn't handle a rest week as within a few days my diet adherance was in the gutter... nowadays it can be the opposite .. as long as there's no bowl of candy calling my name

This would be a really good approach: train hard for 4-5 weeks and do a tiny deficit, take a rest week & take a more agressive approach to dieting.

[Lyrica]

Don't give up Jen-you have been a big help to me with the thyroid stuff and I really appreciate your advice. I am back home now after surgery. I like to eat too lol and we will figure this stuff out. My husband says the same thing about me too-I think we have to step back, take a deep breath and regroup. It looks like you are doing that and just take it day by day.

[AnnetteW]

Originally Posted by Gen

Theres a new log here called How bad do I really want it? For myself, I just don't know anymore. I'm fighting it, because it has so much to do with my future but more and more I just don't care. I'm not trying really hard with my intake, though I had less than 1400 calories today anyway, and I'm not trying really hard in the gym. I know that if I'm going to eat I should really start lifting heavy again and run hard and all that. I just don't care right now. I ran a bit and burned about 400 calories at the gym today. I should have been able to push a bit harder though.

I need a pep talk. I don't want it because it just doesn't feel acheivable anymore. I need to lose and I need to keep it off. I like exercise but I like to eat. I like good food and I like baking and I like wine. I like to live. I just don't know what to aim for now. I feel lost and without any acheivable goals at all; personal or professional.

You've said before that we sound similar, and in many ways we do. I just don't beat myself up over my indiscretions where you do. I eat my food and drink my wine with no guilt...

What we're looking for is "pleasures" in life, the little things that make us happy. Where one person can find it in doing something physical, I find it in a cup of coffee at the bookstore with a bunch of trashy magazines - or a good sci-fi movie with popcorn - or dinner out at the casino with friends on all-you-can-eat crableg night (we'll do that one soon.)

Originally Posted by Gen

Pisses me off too! I'm so much happier when I do more training. I like when I'm sore from lifting and I like when I run more, so that's what I'm going to do for a while. What you said about diet is basically what I was planning. A couple (1 or 2) very low days and then mostly moderate and just eat for workout days. I'll go back to working out often and hard. This low cal, low intensity stuff just doesn't work for me = super depressed.

Maybe I'll sneak in a very low cal/ rest week here and there (once every 4 to 5 weeks) to see if I can lose a bit because physiologically it does work, and I can handle one week, just not many back to back.

Thanks for the advice too; I value it.

Unlike you, I'm not happier when I train. I HATE to hurt, and to me exercise hurts. Now absolutely no exercise doesn't feel good either as I feel things tighten up, but when my muscles hurt, I'm not happy. I find it difficult to find the exact amount of training I can do without discomfort. And the days I go in to the gym feeling motivated and well-fed and then krank out a killer workout....I pay for it for days, with kinks and muscle spasms. My body is capable of doing so much more than I can let it do, sometimes that's difficult.

Whatever you do, just don't stop coming here. Without a doubt this is a supportive forum. Don't let the slippery slope take over. I continue to post even while I've not been dieting, just a few of my rambles....you keep doing that too.

[Gen]

Originally Posted by Lyrica

Don't give up Jen-you have been a big help to me with the thyroid stuff and I really appreciate your advice. I am back home now after surgery. I like to eat too lol and we will figure this stuff out. My husband says the same thing about me too-I think we have to step back, take a deep breath and regroup. It looks like you are doing that and just take it day by day.

I'm glad I've been some help to you. I don't feel like I always have worthwhile contributions but when I know about something and it helps them I'm much happier. I think you'll be alright now. It's time to heal at the moment, make sure you focus on that.

Originally Posted by AnnetteW

You've said before that we sound similar, and in many ways we do. I just don't beat myself up over my indiscretions where you do. I eat my food and drink my wine with no guilt...

Ah, it's not so much the indiscretions as it is the fact that I've had little fat loss. I've made a lot of changes in the past year; I eat a lot less carbs, I enjoy protein more so eat it naturally, less cheese (used to put tons of it on everything), less takeout, less sweets and baked food (other than the past few weeks). There's a big difference between how I ate last year at this time and how I eat now and I still wear the same clothes and weigh the same. My husband says I look better and I've had some recomp in that time, but as I said I still wear the same stuff.

I think I've come close to hitting a wall where my value clash. I value health, fitness and looking good but I also value eating good food and having a good time with friends and family and cooking and trying new things. What I'm afraid of is that I've found the line between the two, and it doesn't equal a smaller leaner body. This leaner body is kind of important to convince people that I can teach them how to do it too.

What we're looking for is "pleasures" in life, the little things that make us happy. Where one person can find it in doing something physical, I find it in a cup of coffee at the bookstore with a bunch of trashy magazines - or a good sci-fi movie with popcorn - or dinner out at the casino with friends on all-you-can-eat crableg night (we'll do that one soon.)

I find it in all of that actually. I also find it in running, and in baking muffins or cake, and in being sore from lifting weights, and in pizza and wine, and inventing recipes too. I also imagine that I would find immense pleasure in working for myself as a trainer and/or diet coach. Much of it is the working for myself part; I've always wanted it and I feel like I've finally found something I can get excited enough about to actually put the effort into a business. Do I want it more than I want pizza and wine sometimes. Apparently no, becauses otherwise I'd not eat them.

Unlike you, I'm not happier when I train. I HATE to hurt, and to me exercise hurts. Now absolutely no exercise doesn't feel good either as I feel things tighten up, but when my muscles hurt, I'm not happy. I find it difficult to find the exact amount of training I can do without discomfort. And the days I go in to the gym feeling motivated and well-fed and then krank out a killer workout....I pay for it for days, with kinks and muscle spasms. My body is capable of doing so much more than I can let it do, sometimes that's difficult.

That is difficult. I think that's all that's saved me sometimes is that I like exercise a lot. Its funny, because I'm the last person anyone who knew me 5 years ago would imagine becoming addicted to exercise!

Whatever you do, just don't stop coming here. Without a doubt this is a supportive forum. Don't let the slippery slope take over. I continue to post even while I've not been dieting, just a few of my rambles....you keep doing that too.

Sometime I wonder if anyone's paying attention but I do really like it here. People are knowlegable and just as immersed in the lifestyle as I am (or want to be). I'm like a sponge for this stuff. Even when I don't care to do it I still want to know all about it; so I don't really think I'm going anywhere anytime soon. Thanks for the encouragement!

[Bytsi]

I struggled (still do) a lot with the balance (if there is one) between strength/training and fat/weight loss. I love training more and harder, but I can't lose weight doing it because I have recovery issues, feel too tired and cranky, and/or eat over my deficit.

Cycling is one option (focus on one thing but only for a short period of time). But then again, some people prefer getting into a consistent groove...

No good answers, but plenty of commiseration.

[CloveApple]

Originally Posted by Gen

I think I've come close to hitting a wall where my value clash. I value health, fitness and looking good but I also value eating good food and having a good time with friends and family and cooking and trying new things. What I'm afraid of is that I've found the line between the two, and it doesn't equal a smaller leaner body. This leaner body is kind of important to convince people that I can teach them how to do it too.

One possibility is to look for training niches that you would enjoy where your current look wouldn't be held against you. But whatever you end up doing I'm glad you're posting even when things aren't going the way you planned.

[Gen]

Originally Posted by Bytsi

I struggled (still do) a lot with the balance (if there is one) between strength/training and fat/weight loss. I love training more and harder, but I can't lose weight doing it because I have recovery issues, feel too tired and cranky, and/or eat over my deficit.

Cycling is one option (focus on one thing but only for a short period of time). But then again, some people prefer getting into a consistent groove...

No good answers, but plenty of commiseration.

Thanks Cycling is probably where I'm headed. Though, I was so excited to get back to running I hurt myself almost right away! I have to remember to ease back into it not hurl myself into it...

Originally Posted by CloveApple

One possibility is to look for training niches that you would enjoy where your current look wouldn't be held against you. But whatever you end up doing I'm glad you're posting even when things aren't going the way you planned.

I've considered that too. I'm a normal sized person, not over weight, just more fat than I want. I could probably find a niche of people that would still appreciate what I have to say. Plus I've been thinking I could specialize in balance and teach cooking, moving, eating. (Not that I do balance very well either ).

In other news, I bought some ephedrine; we'll see if it makes it's way to my front door...

[Espi]

You got my answer.
Bytsi meant cycling calories I think...not cycling as an activity versus running.
I'm cycling calories both within a week and within a month. Always slightly or a LOT over mtn on training days (max of 3) and then in the 'fukitol' weeks, no deficit at all & of course a very large deficit in the 1st week of the 'month' where I deliberately take an extra day off so as to get more deficit days in. Plus they claim women run a bigger risk for injuries on those days anyway.

Off.. to the supermarket (for that plate of veggies Etana talked about)

[Bytsi]

Originally Posted by Espi

Bytsi meant cycling calories I think...not cycling as an activity versus running.

Yup!

[Gen]

Originally Posted by Espi

You got my answer.
Bytsi meant cycling calories I think...not cycling as an activity versus running.
I'm cycling calories both within a week and within a month. Always slightly or a LOT over mtn on training days (max of 3) and then in the 'fukitol' weeks, no deficit at all & of course a very large deficit in the 1st week of the 'month' where I deliberately take an extra day off so as to get more deficit days in. Plus they claim women run a bigger risk for injuries on those days anyway.

Off.. to the supermarket (for that plate of veggies Etana talked about)

You have no more space for private messages But thank you!

I meant cycling goals, as in a few weeks fat loss, a few weeks training, then a few weeks fat loss again. (Or as we discussed before, one week fat loss 4 weeks training). Or, whatever my decision for this minutes is!!!

I ran again today, a slow 8.5 kph for just twenty minutes and it felt good, so I'm glad. Also, some push, some pull, some plank.

[Espi]

Good, so we all meant the same, just got confused since you started talking about running & I wondered if you confused bicycling as an activity with cycling calories.
As for the running.. you might need/want to consider walking instead. Speed walking esp against an incline burns an amazing amount of calories and doesn't feel as intense as running does.

Emptied mail box so you can PM me again

[Gen]

Well today went alright. Ended up with 1104 calories, 128 g protein, Carbs 92 g. I can't do that everyday, but when I can I'll take it!

I've been playing with spreadsheets and I have 4 day and 7 day averages for my calories for the past 4 weeks or so. I've been roughly around maintenence (2000 - 2400) since coming back from Paris so it's prime time now to cut it back a little. I'll still be eating enough to run and lift though.

I have some goal setting exercises I'm planning to do so check back in a bit, maybe over the weekend.

Its a rare day that I don't get at least 30 minutes of walking in, usually more than an hour though. Ton's of activity over the past few days though. 2 - 2.5 hours of walking yesterday and the day before. Saturday was a gym workout and a long walk later in the day. I started to drop off the walks at first when I returned to running again, then I remembered not to be a dummy!

[Fang]

Originally Posted by Gen

then I remembered not to be a dummy!

Gen, I totally get what you are going through right now. One of the biggest problems with me as well is that weight loss is soooo slloooowwww. So we don't get the immediate gratification some might (like my husband who dropped 15 pounds when he cut back on beer during the week). It has taken me 3 years to lose 50 pounds--in that time lots of people have lost and gained the same amount. Several times.

Cycling calories and goals is the only way I've kept sane--working on fat loss for a while, then muscle gain, then fat loss, then maintaining. Sometimes learning to maintain is victory enough.

I keep myself going by celebrating small victories and not beating myself up because my body is not young and responsive. I was ecstatic because I could even DO some of the capoeira moves that other, younger people couldn't. I celebrated because 3 years ago I couldn't have even contemplated doing it. Not that I was all that great, but I could DO it.

There are plenty of people who make their living in fitness who could stand to lose a few pounds--in my demographic research one of the things that kept coming back is that many people look for a trainer who has gone through what they are going through. People can identify with your struggles. You may have to have a very specific niche, but with all of the health problems in the population there are plenty of people who can use your help and who would be inspired by what you have been through.

Currently, I am trying to keep myself going by repeating that deficits aren't forever, and I am an expert at maintaining, so the suffering will only be for a specific time.

I hope some of that helps. Honestly, I'm still working thru it so I find it very helpful to talk about.

xxxoooo

[Tawny38]

I have nothing to add, just wanted to subscribe because your struggles hit home with me. Especially the idea of trying to balance looking like a super fit person while still enjoying food

[kfisherx]

I think it is possible to achieve what you want while still enjoying food. It just takes a heck of a lot of planning to do that. I think also it takes a bit of adjustment to what is meant by "enjoy food". A big paradigm switch for me when I was going through my weight loss mode was that an "all you can eat" buffet does not have to be ALL YOU CAN EAT to be enjoyable. In fact now I find them even more enjoyable when I get up from the table and still feel good. LOL!

Give yourself time... results will come. It took me 2 years to drop 50 lbs.

[Gen]

Wow, thanks guys! I'll be back to comment soon, promise!

[Tawny38]

Originally Posted by kfisherx

I think it is possible to achieve what you want while still enjoying food. It just takes a heck of a lot of planning to do that. I think also it takes a bit of adjustment to what is meant by "enjoy food". A big paradigm switch for me when I was going through my weight loss mode was that an "all you can eat" buffet does not have to be ALL YOU CAN EAT to be enjoyable. In fact now I find them even more enjoyable when I get up from the table and still feel good. LOL!

Give yourself time... results will come. It took me 2 years to drop 50 lbs.

I fully agree, it is a huge paradigm shift - thinking that I am going to enjoy a particular food (i.e some super-sweet, overly fattening concoction) and actually enjoying that food are not always the same, and yet I have not fully learned that lesson. It's amazing how old habits, pre-conceived notions, the environments we grew up in, or whatever sometimes supercede what we actually know to be true.

[Gen]

Originally Posted by Fang

Gen, I totally get what you are going through right now. One of the biggest problems with me as well is that weight loss is soooo slloooowwww. So we don't get the immediate gratification some might (like my husband who dropped 15 pounds when he cut back on beer during the week). It has taken me 3 years to lose 50 pounds--in that time lots of people have lost and gained the same amount. Several times.

Cycling calories and goals is the only way I've kept sane--working on fat loss for a while, then muscle gain, then fat loss, then maintaining. Sometimes learning to maintain is victory enough.

I keep myself going by celebrating small victories and not beating myself up because my body is not young and responsive. I was ecstatic because I could even DO some of the capoeira moves that other, younger people couldn't. I celebrated because 3 years ago I couldn't have even contemplated doing it. Not that I was all that great, but I could DO it.

There are plenty of people who make their living in fitness who could stand to lose a few pounds--in my demographic research one of the things that kept coming back is that many people look for a trainer who has gone through what they are going through. People can identify with your struggles. You may have to have a very specific niche, but with all of the health problems in the population there are plenty of people who can use your help and who would be inspired by what you have been through.

Currently, I am trying to keep myself going by repeating that deficits aren't forever, and I am an expert at maintaining, so the suffering will only be for a specific time.

I hope some of that helps. Honestly, I'm still working thru it so I find it very helpful to talk about.

xxxoooo

Thanks Elisabeth; you're right it is incredibly frustrating. I'm trying now to take a deep breath and approach it in a relaxed kind of way. I'll do the deep deficits when I can and the moderate deficits on other days. And the days I really can't do it, maintenence. We'll see. I think I was so desperate to lose it all right away and get on with maintenence that I drove myself mad.

My husband too, seems to drop weight very easily. He apologizes to me for having a working thyroid. But the truth is he somewhat easily can eat <2000 calories a day until the weekend. As a man though, the weekend doesn't cancel out his incredible deficit. Totally unfair!

My new mantra is that they all have different goals than me. My biggest problem seems to be the social aspect of food. I used to have the same problem when I was giving up smoking; I'd get jealous that everyone else was smoking and I'd barred it from myself. At work yesterday they went out and bought bacon sandwiches for breakfast and I'd already planned my food (with a nice caramel shortbread dessert that I wasn't going to give up!). I had to remind myself "they have different goals than I do". I'll try to remember that at family outtings and parties too.

As far as my professional goals, when I'm not being as negative as possible, I think I can probably focus one of two different extremes. Go all out fitness and focus on a particular sport (like running coach) or focus on trying to help overweight women find some balance in their lives. I like this last one now. I didn't before; I wanted to focus on fitness. Now I guess I feel an affinity, like maybe I can help. I don't think overweight women would hold it against me that I'm not stick thin. (Though I still hope to get lean!!!)

I have to get crackin' on that life coaching course I'm supposed to be doing!!!

[Gen]

Originally Posted by kfisherx

I think it is possible to achieve what you want while still enjoying food. It just takes a heck of a lot of planning to do that. I think also it takes a bit of adjustment to what is meant by "enjoy food". A big paradigm switch for me when I was going through my weight loss mode was that an "all you can eat" buffet does not have to be ALL YOU CAN EAT to be enjoyable. In fact now I find them even more enjoyable when I get up from the table and still feel good. LOL!

Give yourself time... results will come. It took me 2 years to drop 50 lbs.

I think I just have to put my food obsession on hold somehow until I do lose weight. I'm sure I can maintain it once its gone; that's much easier than actually losing it!

As far as all you can eat buffets I kind of agree. Those are the biggest no-no's. And not just for weight loss! But my favorite, because I love the variety as opposed to one plain dish. Anyway, the problem with buffet restaurants is that usually the food is not the best quality and the variety is the selling point. For that reason it would be very difficult to go and eat one small plate of food and feel like I'd gotten my money's worth. Unless I went with a large group... at which point I'd have no willpower anyway!

Anyway, I digress, sorry. You're right, it will take some time to make all the habits I need to. Thanks Karla!

[Gen]

Originally Posted by Tawny38

I have nothing to add, just wanted to subscribe because your struggles hit home with me. Especially the idea of trying to balance looking like a super fit person while still enjoying food

Totally NOT easy! Welcome to my log!

Originally Posted by Tawny38

I fully agree, it is a huge paradigm shift - thinking that I am going to enjoy a particular food (i.e some super-sweet, overly fattening concoction) and actually enjoying that food are not always the same, and yet I have not fully learned that lesson. It's amazing how old habits, pre-conceived notions, the environments we grew up in, or whatever sometimes supercede what we actually know to be true.

Its amazing to eat something you used to love and go, "actually, this isn't THAT great. And SOOO not worth its calories!" I have to thank my husband though for introducing my to real food. I grew up on lots of pre-packaged and made-from prepackaged food. I have nothing against it still, (its like comfort food now lol) but I loooove that I eat such healthful stuff!

[Espi]

Yet, it's almost naive to think you can be cured of thinking just that..

thinking that I am going to enjoy a particular food (i.e some super-sweet, overly fattening concoction) and actually enjoying that food are not always the same, and yet I have not fully learned that lesson. It's amazing how old habits, pre-conceived notions, the environments we grew up in, or whatever sometimes supercede what we actually know to be true.

This is what made me laugh so much when reading the South Beach Diet book, which is a bit of a watered down Atkins diet but with the 'assumption' that 'whole' grains are very healthy & you will just be cured from wanting to eat 'white' grains & all kind of refined stuff after having been low-carbing for just 14 days!

It's been 7 years ago I first started on a ketodiet and in all those years I never lost the appetite for sweets & the like. It's absurd to think you won't.. maybe maybe if you really weaned yourself off it for over a year.. then yes, it may happen.
Even then, while you may indeed discover that the taste is not worth the calories, there is 'something' about eating such foods that makes you atttract to them in the first place.

And it's these foods being 'familiar' & hence 'comfort foods' .. so it's quite natural to have that kind of kneejerk reaction. Happened to me again when faced with exams. Yep.. exam dieting = eating comfort foods & no veggies/protein! As healthy as they may be...

End of rant . Just follow Berardi's rule: if it's not in the house, it won't get eaten.

[Gen]

Activity packed weekend; I'm exhausted. And I can't sleep!

Friday ate very little, went to the gym and burned off ~850 calories (150 lunchtime walk, 750 elliptical; not counting lifting cals burn)
Decent roast chicken with sauteed veg and couscous, and caramel shortbread dessert. Yum.

Saturday - very light breakfast, apple/sultana crackers, 6" subway lunch, lamb bolognese & pasta dinner, 2 white chocolate brownies () moved all day, shopping, shopping, walking around town, cooking, baking, 60 min walk around the block; ended the day tired

Sunday - 2 small failed croissant attempts plus 2 eggs and 1 strip of bacon for breakfast, protein shake and apple/sultana crackers postworkout/lunch, roast duck with veggies dinner, quark and protein powder dessert (I'll figure it out! ). Gym ~700 calories on the elliptical + whatever the lifting burned. Came home, showered, walked 60 minutes.

So, even though I've eaten a good amount of calories, I've moved a ton this weekend and it should come out ok in the end. Weekdays are always easier to stay low. I'd call it a successful weekend really.

[Tawny38]

Originally Posted by Espi

Yet, it's almost naive to think you can be cured of thinking just that..



This is what made me laugh so much when reading the South Beach Diet book, which is a bit of a watered down Atkins diet but with the 'assumption' that 'whole' grains are very healthy & you will just be cured from wanting to eat 'white' grains & all kind of refined stuff after having been low-carbing for just 14 days!

It's been 7 years ago I first started on a ketodiet and in all those years I never lost the appetite for sweets & the like. It's absurd to think you won't.. maybe maybe if you really weaned yourself off it for over a year.. then yes, it may happen.
Even then, while you may indeed discover that the taste is not worth the calories, there is 'something' about eating such foods that makes you atttract to them in the first place.

And it's these foods being 'familiar' & hence 'comfort foods' .. so it's quite natural to have that kind of kneejerk reaction. Happened to me again when faced with exams. Yep.. exam dieting = eating comfort foods & no veggies/protein! As healthy as they may be...

End of rant . Just follow Berardi's rule: if it's not in the house, it won't get eaten.

But when you haven't eaten anything really sweet and/or processed in a while and it presents itself to you (), do you find that it doesn't taste quite as good as you had anticipated? I don't think I will ever lose my sweet tooth, either, but I have to wonder why I continue to eat something that tastes artifical or overly sweet in that first bite. That's what I mean by not learning that lesson yet - if past experience tells me that it tastes weird, why do I take that bite to begin with? Of course, after 10 bites or so, it tastes really good, but that's not the point...now homemade chocolate chip cookies made with real butter, sugar, etc. are a different story!

[Gen]

I think today was day 7 or 8 in deficit land and I did so well until after dinner for some reason I went insane and ate a few chocolate coins from my desk drawer, a caramel, a cookie and then went to make some chocolate protein bread and ate 2 pieces of that. Protein must be in the 150's, calories in the high 2k's. Output probably the low 2k's, walking at lunch and after work and even a 20 minute jog. I'll do better tomorrow.

[Gen]

Right so thursday I started taking an EC stack; its a miracle! I was able pass up food of all sorts! On Friday I had a bit of chocolate protein bread for breakfast, a protein shake for lunch/post workout meal and then didn't eat again until 10:30 when we arrived at the hotel for our friend's wedding/weekend away. Unfortunately it had worn off by then so I had a bit more than I meant to. Saturday it help immensely with not eating everything in sight at the wedding. I left a little bit of everything. Sunday was under 1000 calories.

What its really showing me is how obsessed I am with food. I think about it all the time and that's why I eat more than I should sometimes. When I've had the EC stack I still think about the same things but it's like there's no emotion behind it so it doesn't affect me. I can easily say, as I used to, "I don't have to eat this now, there will be plenty of opportunity to do so in the future." It's amazing to feel in control.

That said, I'm off it again until Thursday. I don't want the appetite suppression to decrease so I'm cycling it. Mon - Wed off, Thurs - Sun on. This should cover my toughest times.

[Gen]

So hungry today! 2060 calories after my chocolate protein peanut butter quark this evening, and I have this devil on my shoulder telling me I want more food! I want to but I'm fighting the idea of taking EC tomorrow, DH won't be happy if I don't follow my own plan. He doesn't like it at all as it is.

At the gym today, besides push, pull and abs I ran 10 min at 9.5 kph and 8 min at 10.5 kph. Then I rested for a few minutes and ran 3 more at 10.5 again. Next time I'll try to do the whole 10 min at 10.5. I should have been able to do it. It's all psychological.

[Espi]

I've always been told how the effect of EC on appetite control wears off pretty fast, but the fat loss effect will increase over time. I just like to take it as an extra stimulant on days I'm feeling very tired.
But I've got so many other supps in my arsenal now, that this rarely happens at the time.. might want to just take some again when I want to go down to really low calorie numbers.

Anyway.. good luck with your plan. Ouch on the 2600 kcal today.. I'd have taken one EC tab if I'd been you.
How's your sleep affected when off the EC? I'd sleep CRAZY hours when off .. up to 12 hrs! One more reason for disliking it for cycling.