Thanks for stopping by and commenting on that thread in the training section. You explained it in the perfect way for me to understand it. It's strange how two people can say the exact same thing and yet one person's way of saying it connects with you and the other doesn't.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting on that thread in the training section. You explained it in the perfect way for me to understand it. It's strange how two people can say the exact same thing and yet one person's way of saying it connects with you and the other doesn't.
Thanks!
It's 'cause I completely understand the fear. I have been and even am there. The change is so slow that you wonder if you are doing the right thing. Make sure you take pics so that you can see the difference in 6 months. You'll be shocked.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
While I don't think Fred Hahn is right , I'm in awe of his perseverence & passion, which deserves more respect than he gets. When things get personal (insults etc) and it stays on the forum, JP Fitness would just be like Lyle's mean forum.. where all of a sudden tons of member come flocking to this thread (there's a 'hating on Hahn thread going on there" & you just won't believe the hate & drivel!) It's why Lyle (as a person) lost my respect.. and among others why I put the phrase below my forum name. People flocking to cast stones to someone daring enough to say something that goes against the grain.. (despite it being mostly wrong though)
Thanks for stopping by and commenting on that thread in the training section.
and thank you for coming by here so I'd read that thread - I'm gonna be done with my deficit soonish, and I too am confused/hesitant about how to put on lean mass. Its nice to know I'm not the only one, and I've learned some stuff now
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Vegetarian, consumer of large quantities of Quark cheese
Working my way from 76.4 to 58 kg (168 - 127.6 lbs)
Lifting a bit, schedule varies. Barbell weight: 22kg/48.4#
and thank you for coming by here so I'd read that thread - I'm gonna be done with my deficit soonish, and I too am confused/hesitant about how to put on lean mass. Its nice to know I'm not the only one, and I've learned some stuff now
While I don't think Fred Hahn is right , I'm in awe of his perseverence & passion, which deserves more respect than he gets. When things get personal (insults etc) and it stays on the forum, JP Fitness would just be like Lyle's mean forum.. where all of a sudden tons of member come flocking to this thread (there's a 'hating on Hahn thread going on there" & you just won't believe the hate & drivel!) It's why Lyle (as a person) lost my respect.. and among others why I put the phrase below my forum name. People flocking to cast stones to someone daring enough to say something that goes against the grain.. (despite it being mostly wrong though)
You and I agree 100% on this matter. When people are as impassioned as Fred is despite having almost zero basis to go on, I find them fascinating to talk to. Fred hangs himself just fine answering civil questions. The danger is when people are all nice to him and lurkers then believe that what he says if valid. At least this way, it was obvious that he is a brotard even to the newest of newbs. Still it rubs me wrong to treat people badly... Even stupid people...
That's why I was nice and honestly asking sincere questions. The problem is then it looks bad since everyone knows I work with Alan. So I had to pull out of the conversation. I accomplished more in my few questions though to get him to show his face than most of the "mean" folks. He opened up with me and exposed huge gaps of knowledge and of experience. He really is a bad one.... The horrible thing about the guy is he is a great marketer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pips
and thank you for coming by here so I'd read that thread - I'm gonna be done with my deficit soonish, and I too am confused/hesitant about how to put on lean mass. Its nice to know I'm not the only one, and I've learned some stuff now
You guys may or may not know this but Alan puts out this monthly thing called AARR. In the Novemeber issue, he very clearly draws out how to set your diet and macros for a recomp (he calls it "culk") That alone is worth the 10 dollar hit to your bank account. LOL!
As an addendum since I hadn't seen the new posts.. he himself is a pretty bad one too when it comes to manners! Even though I must say he's not going as low as most other people.
Re Pip's question & putting on muscle.. I must say that despite allll the effort I've put into strength training in the past ummm well 10 years? I've never ever put on muscle until ... I cut out the crazy interval cardio I used to do after every single workout no matter how long it was & upping carbs.
I've been a huge fan of very low carb diets in the past & likewise was a bit stuck in thinking it was the only way to go. Unlike some other believers (it's only quite appropriate I'm an atheist/agnost as the pattern is so scarily similar to what sects do), I've come back from my views after discovering it just won't work forever or for everyone. Also how going too low can have health repercussions of its' own.. despite the health advantages it has for the pre- & full-blown (type 2) diabetics.
One of the writers in there says it very well: when you have to defend your views in an academic setting (or for you: at work) & are able to see the pros & cons w/o prejudice.. then you must change your POVs unless you're into it just like a religion where you can have 100% proof and people will still not believe you.
But.. all this should never ever come with all the name-calling &tc &tc. it's just getting so ridiculous.. the way you (Karla) played it was absolutely brilliant .
Even Leigh's hat quote was (while funny & touché) not appropriate. But that's maybe because I've seen all this on Lyle's mean forum enough.. nothing good ever comes out of it. Only the internet can bring forth such outright hatred & mean-spirited-ness.
As an addendum since I hadn't seen the new posts.. he himself is a pretty bad one too when it comes to manners! Even though I must say he's not going as low as most other people.
...But.. all this should never ever come with all the name-calling &tc &tc. it's just getting so ridiculous.. the way you (Karla) played it was absolutely brilliant .
Even Leigh's hat quote was (while funny & touché) not appropriate. But that's maybe because I've seen all this on Lyle's mean forum enough.. nothing good ever comes out of it. Only the internet can bring forth such outright hatred & mean-spirited-ness.
Alan can be "hard" on people BUT he is unfailingly patient with them. I mean, look at how gentle he was throughout the first 9 or so pages. Then the "bit flips" and it is obvious that Fred is going to continue being "Fred" so Alan's tactics changes a tiny bit too. Still he is very reasonable throughout the whole conversation IMHO.
I think for someone like Alan, whose passion is to get rid of bro-science, this case is especially hard for him. This Fred guy is one of the worst people ever to the industry because he is so passionate and because he is such a good marketer. If you think about all the people Fred and his books and his broscience touch who get hurt or who fail, it becomes hard to not throw a dagger at him. So I can see both side. And I certainly also see where my tactic is not appropriate at all in that sort of thread as a client to Alan. If not for that aspect of it, I would also say my tactic was brilliant. It just looked bad given that everyone on there knows I am a client. So I am good with the whole thing and I am in trouble again but I thoroughly enjoyed reading the thread because there was a LOT of stuff to learn in bringing all those minds together.
The internet brings out hatred and mean-spirited-ness but it also brings out the truth. It is the ying/yang of the whole thing and why I love/hate it.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Interesting conversation. Are you guys talking about the Fred Hahn stuff about Insulin vs carbs? I just read that thread last night. It always amazes how much people can get hung up in absolutes. The body doesn't work that way. There's always individual differences. Even among people with Type 2 diabetes there's different degrees of carb tolerance from person to person because there's huge variances in the amount of insulin resistance vs insulin deficiency. There's a reason the ADA ditched their diabetic meal plan years ago. It's not that simple and there's a whole lot more to the whole picture than just insulin and carbs and fat gain.
Karla who are you in trouble with Alan? I see your point about it looking bad. But I think everyone knows you ask questions. Which I think is good. As long as it doesn't send you off on a rabbit trail and away from your goals. I thought your posts in that thread were good and I also didn't get the impression that you were questioning your plan with Alan.
Anyway I do think that thread was funny I like the idea how Fred was calling everybody else rude I think he was just as bad. I thought for the most part it was fairly civil.
I have a lot of respect for Lyle McDonald's knowledge and work but not so much for his ego and his first rate ability to be a jerk. When he starts going off on a tirade I take everything he says with a grain of salt. Especially when it involves others in the industry. It's too bad though because in my opinion it lowers his credibility when when he spends just as much effort being a a$$hole as he does refuting nonsense and misinformation. He may be one of the smartest and the best in the industry but that doesn't make him the only monkey in the forest.
I am not really "in trouble" with Alan per se but I am in his radar right now. Alan is unbelievably patient and gentle but when he does strike, you know that you have been hit. I hate it and avoid it at all costs. I have learned (in working every day with him over the past 10 months) that when he starts to gently "e-mentor" you that you are only one or so mistakes away from the "e-spank". Last couple of days, I received a couple of e-mentor messages, (And this during the AARR crunch time when Alan is least available) so I knew that I was BIG TIME in his radar. I hate being in his radar. In fact that is all I need to back way off and just watch.
His points were valid and fair so it is all good. Also some really good things came out of this whole scenario that will utlimately help me with my goals. Things that Alan nor I were really aware of. This forced communication helped clear some of my mistakes up. I'll spill those beans later.
I do appreciate hearing your perspective on the thread as an observer. It makes me feel better to hear that not everyone felt like it was disrespectful. I really did not think that part of it through actually and feel a little bit badly about that.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Liked your other answer in the thread as well.
Yes, people get offended by what he says because there are so many 'believers' and a lot of what he says is not true..
In case you never wonder over at the 'Monkey Island' , it was Alan who started a thread in the Hating Forum re Fred Hahn. Apparently Fred realllly gets under his skin & you explained very well as to why this happens.. = Alan trying to 'un-bro-science' the fitness industry & being confronted by such a stubborn 'agonist'
But you got to say it *is* intrigueing how a minority of people really do fare best on a VLCD approach & actually can't get the weight/fat off any other way. One of those persons is a professor in biochemistry! She's having a mix of type 1 & type 2 diabetes & probably closer to being type 1 than type 2.
But you got to admit: the topic of who responds best to what type of diet remains a fascinating one.
....But you got to say it *is* intrigueing how a minority of people really do fare best on a VLCD approach & actually can't get the weight/fat off any other way. One of those persons is a professor in biochemistry! She's having a mix of type 1 & type 2 diabetes & probably closer to being type 1 than type 2.
But you got to admit: the topic of who responds best to what type of diet remains a fascinating one.
and....??? There are actually a LOT of people who do well on LC or VLC diets. That IN NO WAY means that they are best for everyone. That IS the point of that conversation.... Nobody denies that the diets do work for some people.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
You guys may or may not know this but Alan puts out this monthly thing called AARR. In the Novemeber issue, he very clearly draws out how to set your diet and macros for a recomp (he calls it "culk") That alone is worth the 10 dollar hit to your bank account. LOL!
I know about the AARR, it was mentioned in the fitcast
I should stop letting my fear of new things (like thoughts that it'll prolly be too complicated for me) stop me from doing stuff (like signing up).
__________________
Vegetarian, consumer of large quantities of Quark cheese
Working my way from 76.4 to 58 kg (168 - 127.6 lbs)
Lifting a bit, schedule varies. Barbell weight: 22kg/48.4#
I know about the AARR, it was mentioned in the fitcast
I should stop letting my fear of new things (like thoughts that it'll prolly be too complicated for me) stop me from doing stuff (like signing up).
Totally get what you are saying. I think I worked personally with Alan for 4-5 months before I finally got the courage to sign up. It is intimidating a bit to read, but if you just dive into them and try, you will find your comprehension level rising each and every month. There are enough articles in each edition for you at your current level of undrestanding to actually get benefit. And the more intense articles you may get no real value from today but you'll find that you do get better and better at reading the stuff which brings up everything else. Totally worth the money for me right now....
So thought I would log some sort of report since I have a few moments this weekend to "play" on the boards.
Did another vodka frenzy weekend. LOL! Last time I did that was over a year ago (or so says my friends) so I was pressured into going out for "just one drink" Now I ask you... Is there really such a thing as "just one drink?" Seems not so much for me. Had a great time, spent way too much money and am finally recovered enough to think more clearly after a day of rest.
Despite my little adventures, the scale weight is stabalized (Carbs are my friend) and I am making overall progress on my program. The problem with my program (recomping) is that it is boring to see on a day by day basis. At first this freaked me out in a big way, but now I am comfortable with it.... mostly... as the long term results are really starting to come through.
Rehab is going swimmingly well and I logged my 2nd leg workout last night. Today, the DOMs is not so bad so I am excited that I am adapting to lifting aspects again. I am taking this time to rework my squat form. I am a bit frustrated because I simply cannot find anyone in this area who will teach my ATG squats. I think that on one of my visits to LA that I may visit with this Kuri guyn if he teaches them and believes in them. David was on my case HARD CORE in my session yesterday because I was doing ATG squats. He says that is why my SI joint got sprained. I am disagreeing and saying that my SI/Hip area got hurt because I am quad dominate. Of course we'll never know but I do want to continue my education on this.
Other than that, I am doing the diet thing pretty strictly to plan. Alan and I had some communication RE how I am feeling overall on this diet. I have been feeling pretty shitty (grumpy, fuzzy, etc) but did not do carb ups because I felt like it would be more calories and therefor add to the time it would take me to get my result. Alan convinced me that doing my carb up days would help me in many more ways than it would hurt me so I am commited now to doing them. Hopefully that will make thing a lot more agreeable for me on this diet.
Other than those symptoms the dieting has not been too terrible. I got out of whack this weekend with the vodka thing and had to "restrict" pretty good yesterday in order to not be too far over for the weekend. That pissed me off a little bit but most of the time I do not feel like I am "restricting" anything. I can now see (from this experience) though how it is for people who go far off plan and how hard it is to get back on. It makes you feel sorry for yourself and angry at the who process. That is a bad deal. So my goal for this cut and especially since I am so low in bf% right now is to just make sure that I stay nearly 100% to plan.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Hi girl, just sticking my head in. I've been reading but not commenting lately--I will be glad to get my computer back when the kids go back to school tomorrow.
Looks like I will have to read thru that thread--I looked at it last week but there's clearly been some action. I used to be a low carber, and it was helpful for me to understand the importance of protein and frequent feeding for me, but just plain didn't work past a certain point. It's kind of sad what a sloppy thinker Fred is. And shocking that he has a following at all--I've only read his stuff on these forums and I can't believe how bad it is.
Anyway, just saying hello and hoping to see you again soon--I love spending time with you. Athough next time I'll have to catch you on one of your vodka days. Did I mention Peter makes a killer Lemon Drop (meyer lemon juice and candied meyer peel)?
Only shows you're human after all. So it's face plant in vodka for you
Guilty on all counts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnetteW
I had to come to see why Espi commented on you and Vodka. You and I better never go out drinking together...lol.
BTW, do you have photos (before, afters, inbetweens) posted somewhere that I can snoop at?
Okay so you and Elisabeth and Anne (I think she wants to do it too)... Meet me at JP Summit next year and we "do" vodka....
Here are your progress pics (I told ya they are boring...)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fang
Hi girl, just sticking my head in. I've been reading but not commenting lately--I will be glad to get my computer back when the kids go back to school tomorrow.
Looks like I will have to read thru that thread--I looked at it last week but there's clearly been some action. I used to be a low carber, and it was helpful for me to understand the importance of protein and frequent feeding for me, but just plain didn't work past a certain point. It's kind of sad what a sloppy thinker Fred is. And shocking that he has a following at all--I've only read his stuff on these forums and I can't believe how bad it is.
Anyway, just saying hello and hoping to see you again soon--I love spending time with you. Athough next time I'll have to catch you on one of your vodka days. Did I mention Peter makes a killer Lemon Drop (meyer lemon juice and candied meyer peel)?
Alright you convinced me... Tell Peter to start squeezing the lemons... I am working out a deal now (hopefully) to train down there with someone... More on that as I know it and maybe you can join in that fun too.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Okay so you and Elisabeth and Anne (I think she wants to do it too)... Meet me at JP Summit next year and we "do" vodka....
Here are your progress pics (I told ya they are boring...)
at the playing guitar pic---you look like you're wearing a fat suit!!!!!: eek:That is all!
Alright you convinced me... Tell Peter to start squeezing the lemons... I am working out a deal now (hopefully) to train down there with someone... More on that as I know it and maybe you can join in that fun too.
I told ya I was obese.... I know it seems like a long time to ya'll but it was only just yesterday to me.
So... went to the posing coach today.... My goal was to have him assess my situation to see if I go for the show in March or do another year. He gave me the "go ahead" for the novice class but not the masters. I still don't have enough mass. He did not gripe about my diet this time and he said I was still too fat for him to know what it will take to bring me in (about what weight I'll be, etc). He guessed me around 15%. While he did not give me shit about my diet, he did warn me several times that I was going to have to come in shredded. I assured him that I understood. We worked for a tiny while on the mandatorys and he sent me home for the week to practice. He wants to see me again next Sunday.
So yet another wheel in motion. It sux to be Alan right now. Here I sit (a totally NOT genetically gifted BBer) in a very delicate balanced situation. I am coming back from injury. This diet has zapped me of a lot of energy. I am gaining strength very quickly though from the injury so the good news is that it doesn't appear that I lost a whole lot of muscle. Still with the low energy it will be a big time fight right now to keep that.... Oh yeah.... Here is the "rub"... I somehow gotta get shredded while keeping as much muscle as possible and upping my energy.
Hmmmmmmm..... It sux to be Alan right now.
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The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Hey, I didn't know or even remember you were that large before.. how did that happen to someone in love with running? Or was it in a time you didn't care for it?
175+ = 79+ kg so we once were quite close in wt.. (me @ 85kg for the top wt = 187lbs).
My.. you've come a long way baby! And look how hawt you are now
Thanks for the photos, it does help me a lot, as I too maxed out at 182, same range as you and Espi. I did go back through your log a bit and finally found references to wanting to compete. I couldn't even fathom such a thing, though we do go occasionally to competitions to watch. Ever since I was a little girl I had a fascination with muscles and bodybuilders. I don't know where the interest came from though, and I also have no clue why I never followed through with it myself. I started doing weights in college and then later in my 20's I worked out quite diligently with weights. But I never put on any mass, I was always skinny. I remember when a competitive bodybuilder commented on my delts and how there were coming up, and I had the ripples in my chest...but I was skinny...and then I got pregnant.
I love your transformation, and I can't wait to be able to share mine.
And I do plan on being at the Summit if it's here in KC again, I wasn't active on the boards last year at that time, too busy wallowing in my pains, fat and bottle or 2 of wine. But yes, I want to be there this time around. Health and fitness has to finally be a part of my life, or I won't ever be an old lady.
Good job and good luck with the ongoing transformation.
Last year's summit was held in May, in Kansas City, MO. I'm not sure if it will be in the same location next year or not. Last year's info: http://jpfitnesssummit2009.blogspot.com/
OMG woman! Awesome transformation! Once again you give me hope...
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