I don't have to tell you that I would have run through that pain and potentially injured myself.
thanks for the kudos karla! yeah, I don't doubt that pulling yourself back is tough for you, which is why I disagreed so strongly with your bench press comments. I could be putting up much higher bench numbers if I followed your advice and did partial reps! but raising the weight and pressing more than I can handle full range right now would be a sure invitation to injury, and who wants to risk that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialmom
Smart decision, Wendy. Sometimes it's harder to stop ourselves when we should than it is to push through--a few years ago, who knew we'd be saying something like that?
oh celeste, how true. when I was sedentary, you could not have ever convinced me that I would one day have to learn how to back off from training!! you kiddin me? getting off the couch was a major feat back then. now I have to convince myself to rest when injured. ha!
ok, so
burned 2557
eaten 2675
"deficit" -118
so my body seems to be needing more these days, and I honestly feel biological hunger. I am going to assume that I will be turning the corner out of this any day now and able to get back after some deficits. I think it is the training. good thing I am performing well where I am.
thanks tracey, yep. massage really helped. am off to the gym with hubby to focus only on upper body, benching, core. going to rest the legs today. tomorrow is a full day off.
45 x 12
45 x 12
65 x 8
65 x 8
80 x 5
80 x 4
80 x 4
45x 12
45 x 20
did shoulder presses with the 20's, 3 sets of 10
did row with 70 x 10 , 80 x 10 80 x 10 and then hammer rows with 50, two sets of 8
dumbell tricep press 15 x 12 20x 19 20 x 10 25 x 4 25 x4
celeste, you have adapted to the cold. it is part of you!!
ok, so PMS big time. afraid of the scale right now.
burned 2420
eaten 2600
"deficit" -180
have posted a question to leigh about the direction I need to head in. not sure what is happening to appetite this week, other than it is HUGE. PMS is a factor, but this didn't happen last month AT ALL. did fine in a slight deficit
also posted in the running forum.
I LOVE my 5k training, love the fitness I am gaining. but suspect that I am walking that edge between training hard and being in a deficit. wondering if I should scale back the two swim sessions and bunch up the running/weights on the same days, so I can have several days of no activity where I can cut calories a bit more.
I am running really well and competitively despite my plethora of body fat (compared to most women who are my pace locally....) dilemmas dilemmas dilemmas
kickass swim today. First full practice in the faster lane. Had no prob completing the workout with my lanemates. Like most runners I have an inefficient kick, so with fins I probably could even move over another lane. But with no fins, I still stayed with them. Did wuss out a bit early- have to save something for track tonight! happy with my performance these days. Pants are fitting mighty loose. Expecting a decent scale experience in a few days.
Wendy - loved reading your vivid description of your run and your decision to back off. I think it was the right one and hopefully it will continue to pay off.
kickass swim today. First full practice in the faster lane. Had no prob completing the workout with my lanemates. Like most runners I have an inefficient kick, so with fins I probably could even move over another lane. But with no fins, I still stayed with them. Did wuss out a bit early- have to save something for track tonight! happy with my performance these days. Pants are fitting mighty loose. Expecting a decent scale experience in a few days.
Wendy - loved reading your vivid description of your run and your decision to back off. I think it was the right one and hopefully it will continue to pay off.
Nice work on the swimming - and loose pants!
thanks bree!! so glad when my fellow runners stop in, I know you know how hard it is to reign things in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkinsley
Yay!
thanks tina!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dillytl
thanks tracey!
burned 2569
eaten 2659
"deficit" 90
eeeek. will be able to get on the scale within a day or two. hmmmm. this week has been tough as far as eating goes.
OTOH, had the day from hell, got to the track too late, forgot my sports bra, but ran 3 x 800 anyway, and did them all well under 4 minutes. this was only half of what was planned, but hey, I did it, and my body still received the benefits! I could have just bagged it.
of course, I have a really cool story to tell you guys about the last time I forgot my sports bra at the track, and when I have time, I will write and post.
alright!! had a kick butt bench today. today is my alone day without ed to spot me, so I keep my weights conservative and worked on form (touching the chest and FULL RANGE!!!)
12 x 45
10 x 64
7 x 75
6 x 75
5 x 75
25 x 45
last week I only got one set of 4 of 75 and then did two sets at 70. the 75 felt really doable today, and I had plenty left as evidenced by the endurance set at the end with 45. I also did some triceps. shoulders. lunges, step ups. abs.
very very happy with this. I seriously think eating maintenance this week was helpful to my strength. dieting really really sucks.
I am really asking my body to do a lot right now--small deficit, hard running workouts AND gaining bench press strength all at the same time??? at nearly 45 years old. hmmm. so far nothing disastrous, but I am going to continue to listen to my body about the food.
the sports dietician said that most women runners who have my kind of goals are in the high teens for body fat. this keeps getting stuck in my brain, because I really don't want to do what it would take for me to get this lean, more importantly, I don't want to do what it would take for me to STAY this lean. I really believe that my performance would suffer because I would have to eat so little that I wouldn't fuel and recover from my workouts properly.
and on a purely aesthetic note, I also am happy with the way my face looks now at 25-26%. I could probably tolerate 23-24%, but I just don't like how some women my age look in the face when they start getting too lean--some of my local running crew are like that, and they look old to me. I am comfortable with aging, I am comfortable with looking like the 45 year old woman that I am. but I don't want to look 50 or 55 at 45 and that is how some women runners look to me.
but at the same time, I am having a hard time believing right now that a woman with 26% body fat can run fast. I don't have any role models. all of the local women who have qualified for boston ARE in the high teens for body fat. they just are.
but I seem to be running fast despite my higher-than-most-runners body fat, so maybe I should just trust that my body will support me in all of my goals, just as it has supported me all of these years through every other crazy sport I have done.
I just know how profoundly my running has been affected when I dropped from the low 160's to the 150 where I am now. my brain says 140s would be better. but what if the 140's are too stressful for my body to maintain? what if the level of restriction needed to stay there isn't enough food to recover and perform well? what if the level of restriction required just isn't worth it to me??
I have struggled with these questions before, and I can tell you that the dieting that I did to get to 150 has been TOTALLY and COMPLETELY worth it. it is fun being a fast runner!!
but as I get closer and closer, the effort gets harder and harder. and I am learning to love the hard workout efforts, but hard dieting efforts are something that I really don't love. I have become more comfortable with hunger and the feeling of deficit. but I don't like the feeling of ongoing deficit and training hard.
I have had a week of break, definitely needed. I am recharged. I will see if I can make one final push to stay in a small deficit as I complete my training plan for arnold. always a work in progress.
the awesome running coaches at furman have spoken: I will indeed be eating near maintenance and fueling myself for PERFORMANCE. fat loss on hold unless it just happens as part of recomposition while at maintenance. feeling better already.
Really glad you have taken this decision, Wendy, and feel good about it. I have tied training for and running two marathons in a deficit and a) I lost very little fat b) I felt fine but am sure it hampered performance c) it has had very negative impact on my metabolism. I am off running right now since last marathon in Nov, and I am going to focus on restoring metabolism and fat loss before taking it up again.
Jennifer Sygo, National Post
Published: Tuesday, February 03, 2009
Picture it: A thirtysomething woman is interested in training for a
triathlon, maybe even one as gruelling as the half- or full-Ironman. To
get herself into top shape, she decides to lose a few pounds, not only to
reduce the stress on her joints and potentially lower her risk of injury,
but also to shave valuable seconds or minutes off of her training and race
times (and hey, it doesn't hurt to look lean and mean in those skimpy
running bras). So despite the higher energy needs that come with more
intense training, she decides to trim her caloric intake just a little,
perhaps by cutting excess carbs such as pasta, bread and cereal. Her
intentions, she feels, are good, so much so that she might even see a
dietitian or other nutrition professional to help her lose the weight.
As a sport dietitian, I routinely work with female athletes of all shapes
and sizes, and some of them inevitably have eating issues, which can be
severe and ultimately life-threatening. But below the layer of the most
severe, clinically diagnosable eating disorders (including anorexia and
bulimia nervosa), there is another, much larger percentage of female
athletes whose dietary habits are putting them at risk, not only in terms
of their performance, but also when it comes to their health - and in many
cases, even the athletes themselves don't realize it.
The first week of February marks National Eating Disorders Awareness Week,
and while the topic of eating disorders is a vast one, the issue of female
athletes undereating is one that I feel is particularly worthy of some
discussion because it falls so far under the radar of many people.
ENERGY DEFICITS: NOT JUST ABOUT OIL AND GAS ANY MORE
So what happens, physically, when an athlete undereats? Let's take a
closer look. If an average female in her thirties needs to consume, say,
1,800 calories per day to maintain her weight, then it makes sense that an
active female would need more. How much more? Well, that depends whether
we're talking about a casual gym-goer who engages in three one-hour,
moderate intensity workouts per week, then you might tack on an additional
2,100 calories over the week (based on 700 calories burned per workout),
averaging out to an extra 300 calories per day.
But if that athlete is engaging in more intense athletic training - let's
say one or even two workouts per day, six days per week, with some lasting
several hours - then she could require up to 7,000-10,000 (or more)
additional calories per week, just to break even. That translates to an
extra 1,000 calories or more per day - quite a lot if you've been used to
watching every bite. On top of that, as an athlete becomes stronger and
adds more muscle mass, her metabolism increases - in other words, she
actually burns more energy at rest. So, in addition to their energy output
from training, these athletes also need to consume extra calories just to
conserve the lean muscle that they've worked so hard to build.
This is the theory, anyway. But, in my experience, few female athletes
actually eat this much. Many eat less, and while they may not be
intentionally dieting or restricting, it is not uncommon to see a
high-level female athlete eating between 1,800 and 2,500 calories per day
- simply not enough when their needs are 3,000 calories or more.
Most of the female athletes I've worked with don't even realize they are
undereating - they are just going with what social norms dictate women
should do to keep their weight in check, but these dietary habits can come
with unexpected and potentially severe consequences.
THE DANGERS OF NOT EATING ENOUGH
Initially, when an athlete undereats, the impact tends to be on
performance: She might feel more fatigued - either during training or
throughout the day - but in time, issues with sleep, injuries, illness or
burnout can start to arise. If an energy deficit persists for a prolonged
time, the result can be irregular menstrual periods and a loss of bone
health, making the athlete not only prone to short-term injuries like
stress fractures, but also long-term issues like osteoporosis. But perhaps
most surprisingly, many of these athletes actually find it harder to lose
the weight that they are trying so hard to control, especially when it
comes to those persistent few pounds around the middle.
But there is little research in this area (though the University of
Toronto has embarked on an ambitious project known as REFUEL, examining
the effect that gradually increasing women's energy intakes to meet their
needs has on body composition, menstrual status, and bone health). One
explanation is that a lack of fuel means a loss of muscle (remember,
muscle is expensive to keep around), which means a slower metabolism. It
is also possible that hormonal disruptions that resulting from what is
effectively long-term starvation favour fat storage.
THE BOTTOM LINE
Regardless of the mechanism, there is reason for hope: Evidence shows that
by eating more (in other words, actually meeting their energy needs),
athletes can perform better, maintain stronger bones, a better hormonal
balance and actually become leaner in the long run.
If you think undereating is an issue for you or an athlete you work with,
contact a dietitian who specializes in sports nutrition (visit
dietitians.ca/find for more information).
-Jennifer Sygo is a dietitian in private practice at Cleveland Clinic
Canada (clevelandcliniccanada.com), which offers executive physicals,
prevention and wellness counselling and personal health care management in
Toronto.
So it sounds like you are going to focus on your running goals. Based on what you write here, it gives you so much joy I think this is the right path for you. Most days I am fine with not doing as much running, but days like today when its in the mid 30's (ha ha i know warm for me!) I just crave that crisp air and the journey of a run. In fact I think I am going to do run today. Just an easy 3.5, but still. I have the dilemma constantly about what I want. Now that I am in better shape and running is even easier I want to do it more. It doesn't help that I have a good friend who is always trying to talk me into 5k's and halfs. I am not there yet, but I want to someday.
I don't know if you've caught this interview with Alwyn or not....I've linked to it a few times on threads talking about SS cardio. Maybe you, also, would find it interesting:
Wendy, this is exactly how I tore my hamstring btw. I was on deficit training for 1/2 marathon. Took me over a year to recover from the injury and run that darned race. Not a good way to operate. I think you are very wise.
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
bree, thanks! I do love running, and I am really happy with my decision.
Thanks jane! Great article. I won't be back into low intensity steady state until marathon season. The cool thing about my 5k plan is that none of it is low intensity. I am running at a decent intensity every run, which is probably the reason for my minicrash
Ok karla explain the saying in your signature? I don't picture you as the barbie type.
Ok karla explain the saying in your signature? I don't picture you as the barbie type.
Oh there is so much you don't know about me. LOL! You're right that I am not the "barbie" type per say but I do wear pink and even girl stuff a lot in the gym. In fact I have great fun with attire. I am quite small (relatively speaking). It is for this reason that I bought the t-shirt that says, "The bigger I get, the smaller you look" (I had to buy a size small in that shirt btw) I mean how funny is it that a small sized woman would wear this? So a barbie hat is hillarious in the gym and so are the pink lifting gloves, kitty cat socks, pink sports bra, etc. Let's face it. I am a 5'4", 45-year-old lady who barely weighs a buck and a quarter when dieted down. I am often in the gym with these enourmous AS filled monsters lifting side by side. I just like to have fun with that image sometimes. And then I begin to lift and all the humour goes away. I have earned respect in all the gyms I frequent by my work ethic. I am very serious about my lifting but pretty light hearted about who I am in the gym and in this game. Most all of the smack talk I do is very tongue in cheek. It doesn't translate over the internet so well.
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
Touching the chest is not really proper form unless you are in a competition. . It is also a bad idea for most people to train with touching the chest because the shoulder muscles then take the weight and they are not designed to do as much weight as the larger pec muscles. most general pop people correct form is less ROM.
I am currently heads down on this one for a little while as I examine all the data. ALL the documentation seems to point to touching the chest which contradicts my theories on keeping the pecs firing
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfisherx
. Most all of the smack talk I do is very tongue in cheek. It doesn't translate over the internet so well.
oh, I get the barbie reference now! small girl lifting big weights, a portrait of contrasts....fun!
regarding the smack talk. I LOVE smack talk. here we call it locker room talk. it is pervasive in every sport I have taken up, from running, swimming, cycling, triathlon, rowing, weightlifting. my fellow masters swim teammates are the best at it.
but smack talk is different from unsolicited advice on technique, particularly when said advice is
1. inaccurate
2. not applicable to the advisee
an example of smack talk would be you seeing your friend lift his butt and pelvis way too high off the bench during the bench press and you say to him, "hey buddy you gonna lift that weight or f*ck it?" you are getting the point across to him that his form sucks, but you are doing it in a way that is teasing and funny (assuming you both share the same degenerate sense of humor)
coming in my log and schooling me on bench press technique (unsolicited-I wasn't asking for help on my bench press technique), and then posting in your log that your "theories" were contradicted by most of the experts is an example of why you might sometimes be misinterpreted. It is hard to misinterpret someone who started posting and lifting around the same time as me, with similar experience levels, deciding at this stage of the game that she has enough knowledge to devise her own theories on how to keep the pecs fired during bench press. and then take it a step further, and post about her theories in my log, making it seem that they are state-of-the-art facts.
smack talk is a blast! I always welcome it, I can take it AND dish it out. but unsolicited advice, particularly inaccurate advice, is not the same as smack talk.
Huh??? Wendy wtf was this about? Wow... I don't even know how to respond.
The sample that you used above is NOT even remotely smack talk and really comes from left field and was completely unprovoked in this conversation. It's like you were just sitting around and waiting for the chance... I will not even address the comments that you made. The subject of full ROM in an exercise is really very serious discussion and my bringing it up (in this case) helped a number of people to grow on the subject. That said it is not intended to be something that pisses you off. You always say how this sorrt of discussion is welcome in your log but and I took you at your word for that... now I see that you feel differently. I will make sure to stick to posting only "Yea for you" messages from now on as that seems to be your preference in your log.
Just an FYI: When I made the comment that "Smack talk doesn't translate on the internet" I only meant that I cannot pull off all the goofing around that I do in real life on here because it would piss some people off. I do a lot of it in real life but body Language and the spark in my eye show that I am just a big goof.
__________________
The BIGGER I get the smaller you look
oh, I love a good intellectual debate---everyone is always welcome to do that. but big sweeping pronouncements---like this Touching the chest is not really proper form unless you are in a competition
are not accurate--touching the chest is indicated in lots of different things besides competition.
you didn't start this intellectual debate by writing something like "full range of motion can be a good thing a lot of the times, but I have learned that there are sometimes when full range of motion might not be the best thing. for example, ......."
no, instead you make big pronouncements like touching the chest is not proper form unless in competition--statements like that are just ridiculous, and not based at all in an understanding of the current best practices in the field.
I know you love to help people, and aspire to be a mentor. but good mentors do their homework BEFORE dispensing advice, particularly when said advice is stated so convincingly, and then later retracted when further data is gathered.
I love positive energy in my log and in my life, and I tend to attract it. but when I have asked for feedback about a problem I am having, the people on this forum have been very generous with calling me out on things, and I have really appreciated it.
so I don't agree that my log is only a place for sunshine and roses. I do tend to be pretty positive in my approach to most anything, but my writing also is honest about my struggles, and I always welcome a good debate on any subject.
Cycling has the Tour de France. Running has the Tour de Knees. What? You’ve never seen the Tour de Knees? It is a special athletic event. You only get to participate if you run your body hard, over a number of years. Then you have to endure multiple unanticipated traumas to your knees, resulting in vague symptoms that prompt your doctor to order MRI’s of both knees. Then one of your Sports Radiologist/Colleagues offers to sit with you during lunch and take you on a tour of your knees.
Seriously, I got to see my knees up close and personal a few Fridays ago. I haven’t had this much anatomic fun since my General Surgery attending in my third year of medical school allowed me to palpate all of the abdominal organs during an open hernia repair.
Let me give you some background. Last May, many of you remember my crash with a stationary concrete bench. As usual, I was socializing too much during a long run, and had my head turned, running straight into the edge of a concrete bench at a pretty fast clip. At the time, I couldn’t see the silver lining in this big ole giant thundercloud. All I knew is that when running finally was pain free, my pace group had built their long run up to 16 miles. After two months of persistent achiness, an MRI of the left knee revealed a bone contusion (bruise) of my femur and patella. I was cleared by my doctor to run, but out of respect for my body, I made a radical decision to give up running for 6 months and focus on building strength and losing fat. I celebrated the start of 2009 in the best shape of my life as a result of that bench.
Many of you might also remember my bike wreck of 3 months ago. I was providing course support to a 30K road race (running), and I was following the leader. Unfortunately, I forgot that some of the course is on sand, and I didn’t lower my tire pressure to off road levels. I was about halfway down the sandy path, about 200 yards behind the leader, no other runners anywhere near him (collegiate runner!). I didn’t notice the patch of thick sand and my rear tire fishtailed, taking me down hard, causing my new Terry seat to get up close and personal with my pelvis, and my right knee to become intimate with the road. It didn’t help that I had on my supercool Keen sandals with SPD clips—falling when you are clipped into your pedals doesn’t exactly allow you enough time to unclip and save your pelvis and knees from crash injuries.
Naturally, I ignored the mild pain with kneeling, until my strength coach finally said to me that I should not still be having knee pain this far out. So enter MRI number two.
Tuesday after my MRI, I was driving to the track to run a series of fast quarter mile repeats. My family doctor called me on my cell with words that a runner never wants to hear, “Wendy, unfortunately, I think you are going to be taking a little time off.” My heart sank, I pulled over to fully concentrate on what he was saying. The radiologist had found a cartilage flap. Just a tiny one.
Of course I started bargaining with him, like I did the time I sprained my right ankle on a Tuesday and proceeded to run 10 miles on a Saturday without incident. I figured I could manipulate him again into giving me permission to go ahead and drive to the track anyhow, perhaps adjusting the intensity as necessary. No go. Bummer. He did say that he would defer to the Sports Medicine specialist that I would see on Thursday.
As I turned left onto my dirt road leading to my house, I was thankful that I was in my trusty Honda Element and not on my superfly Gary Fisher hybrid with my supercool Keen SPD clip-in sandals. Nope, I was just another dejected runner, wondering why I seemed to be such a crash magnet.
I decided to treat my body well over the next 72 hours. Lots of massage, foam rolling, stretching, good nutrition. I was well rested and in a good mood by the time I drove to the Sports Medicine doc. I was anxious as he prodded and palpated both of my knees. There was only one small spot that was tender, right underneath the kneecap on the right. All of my ligaments and tendons were strong and stable. He watched my gait as I walked, lunged and squatted. Both the fellow and attending were more than confident that the small cartilage flap had absolutely nothing to do with the bike wreck. And the mild pain was probably more of a strain than anything. Their advice? Don’t do sports that reproduce the pain, in my case, kneeling. So no more kneeling on the gravitron. No more kneeling so I can do pushups full range chest hitting floor. At least not until the pain stopped. And since running and lifting didn’t produce knee pain, I was all clear to run!
YEE and HAW! Naturally, I was tempted to run that night, but I decided to take yet another day off and wait until the radiologist saw me the next day. Usually, radiologists don’t sit with you and review films, but I earned my MD fair and square. And when he called me earlier in the week to go over my results, he offered to meet me over lunch hour on Friday to show me my knees. Hooray for professional courtesy!
The Tour de Knees was an eye-opening, and dare I say, knee-opening experience. The first thing that amazed me was how strong my muscles looked—the tip of the quadriceps as it wrapped around the knee joint from above, and the fibers of what would eventually become my calf muscles from below. And my legs looked so LEAN!! Like an athletes legs. Big strong muscles, not a lot of fat. So fun to see radiologic proof of my hard efforts!
He reviewed the cartilage flap while I pointed to the area of pain and described the pain. He agreed with my doctors, the superficial pain on palpation would not explain the deeper achy pain that I should be feeling with cartilage issues. His best guess? A patellar ligament strain. Same advice as my other docs, DON’T KNEEL.
But the most important part of this tour was the cartilage review. On both knees, I have some mild degenerative changes in my cartilage. We won’t ever know whether my history of obesity is the cause or my history of distance endurance sports—both cause cartilage stress. But none of my cartilage changes are career ending. In fact, he thought my knees looked really good for someone who has done all of the things that I have done. But as I sat and looked at the little divets of imperfection in my cartilage, I had one of those light bulb moments. I don’t want to be one of those middle aged, recreational athletes who runs themselves into a knee replacement at 55.
I suppose if I made my living as a professional endurance athlete, I might decide that it would be worth damaging my knees—just another day at the office right? But as far as I know, neither my employer nor my patients require that I run a specific marathon time and risk damaging my knee cartilage. But I know for sure that preserving my knee cartilage is essential to my functioning as I age. I want to be like the 82 year old woman at my last 5k, who ran a 31 minute 5k, clinching the 75 and over title by more than 15 minutes. And running for a lifetime is much less likely for me if I become like some of my friends and make marathoning a lifestyle. Maybe they are some of the lucky ones who have perfect knees? I now know that I don’t.
So I have one good final shot at a marathon personal best. And if my personal best is good enough to earn my ticket to the big show, the Boston Marathon, then, I guess I have two more marathons in me!!
But after the Tour de Knees, I have decided that if my best isn’t good enough on that day, I will celebrate anyway. I will celebrate, knowing that for one year, I gave everything I had in me and became the fittest, strongest, best runner I could be. I will celebrate, knowing that I am doing a good thing for my entire body by backing off on the distance running thing, and switching to distances that are less taxing on the cartilage.
Goals are wonderful things to have, but they can’t be so rigid that you are unable to adjust them when you acquire new data. I didn’t know that running into a concrete bench would ultimately result in the leanest, most muscular physique of my life. Just like I didn’t know that wrecking on my bike would result in changing my self concept from “marathoner is who I am as an athlete” to “marathoning is part of of who I am as an athlete”. Seeing potential damage and injury unfold right before your eyes in vivid anatomic detail is one of those data points that deserves to be recognized, and deserves an action plan.
My action plan is to respect my body and make this my last shot. Who knows what kind of silver lining lies around the corner? I just hope the corner is on a paved road, without concrete benches.
Linear Mode
