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Old 07-10-2008, 09:42 PM   #451 (permalink)
On a high-beer diet
 
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I just enter what I eat into fitday - it calculates all the percentages for me.

We cut up meat & veggies on Sundays and Wednesday evenings:
- ham & turkey breast
- bell peppers
- onions
- romaine lettuce

I usually make a giant salad of some sort to last through most of the week as snacks. Tabouli or cuke/tomato or something like that. It sits in a big bowl in the fridge and I scoop out a cup or so and put into little containers to take to work.

I also frequently make a giant tuna/veggie mixture to put on top of lettuce for salads to take to work for lunch. I'll mix 8 cans of albacore with pickles, jalapenos, bell peppers, onions, capers, mustard, pepper, and about 1/4 cup of mayo. Mix it all together and it makes about 8 cups of salad mixture. 1 cup per salad is pretty filling, so doing that on sunday lasts us almost the entire workweek.

breakfast, I toss in a bunch of veggies & ham into a skillet, cook, put on a plate, then add my egg whites (from a carton - we buy cartons 6 at a time at costco), flip it, and make an omelet. Takes about 10 minutes to make in the morning.

On saturday, I made a pot of brown rice (1 cup raw) and a big pan of kung pao chicken - 6 servings. I eat 1/2 cup of rice at a time with a cup of the kung pao so that lasts me several dinners. It's great - after my workout, I just get into the fridge & measure out my food into a container, heat it in the microwave, and voila - dinner in 2 minutes.

I've also bought a package of frozen 92% lean burgers (Laura's Lean from Target, it's very good) and frozen brussel sprouts, which is also super-quick. Just cook up the burger in a pan & nuke the sprouts in the microwave for 1 minute. Dinner's done in about 4-5 minutes tops.

Cutting things up and making big batches makes a HUGE difference in the amount of time I spend cooking & doing dishes during the week. And, of course, a big difference in whether or not I stick to my eating plan.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:45 PM   #452 (permalink)
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Oh, another thing I've done is cook up a bunch of chicken breasts at once and cut them into slices or cubes then put the pieces into containers in the fridge. That way they're easy to use for salad, stir fry, scrambled eggs, whatever. And it lasts about a week or so.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:45 AM   #453 (permalink)
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oh and btw my fat on my belly is very loose. I was entertaining myself during my workout - usually when I do my pushups, my little fat "pouch" hangs down over the top of my shorts, just over my bellybutton. I had my feet & hands on the floor and brought my feet up toward my hands to put myself in sort of a "downward dog" type position. My fat rolled up to the bottom of my rib cage. :p So of course I went back down to the pushup "up" position and watched the fat roll down, then back up as I moved my feet closer to my hands.

It's probably a good thing I work out at home. lol.
ROTFL!!!

How's the leg feeling? Sounds pretty ouchy
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:40 AM   #454 (permalink)
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I am totally stealing this....

Quote:
I also frequently make a giant tuna/veggie mixture to put on top of lettuce for salads to take to work for lunch. I'll mix 8 cans of albacore with pickles, jalapenos, bell peppers, onions, capers, mustard, pepper, and about 1/4 cup of mayo. Mix it all together and it makes about 8 cups of salad mixture. 1 cup per salad is pretty filling, so doing that on sunday lasts us almost the entire workweek.

I like all of your preparing ideas. I do some of this but need to get better at it. Especially with chicken.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:58 AM   #455 (permalink)
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Yeah, we almost have it down to a science! I love that I don't have to cook after a strenuous workout. Just throw stuff together, heat it up, and EAT.

I can't remember if I mentioned this or not but we go to costco every weekend and this is pretty much in our cart every time:
- bag of 6 heads of romaine lettuce
- 1-2 bags of bell peppers
- bag of 2.5 pounds of spinach
- box of 6 cartons of egg whites
- large package of sliced mushrooms
- large package of berries or cherries
- large tub of cottage cheese
- 12 cans of albacore if we're out

And then some random things. Last week I bought a big pack of turkey lunchmeat for snacks and a package of kiwi fruit. Sometimes I'll buy celery stalks, so I can chop them up & put them in baggies to take to work. I also bought a big bag of baby carrots for munching, too. I need lots of snacky things - and the more it's veggies or lean meat (like turkey breast) the better! Otherwise I want to eat stuff like cookies or scones. And there's always SOMETHING like that here at work.

My leg is better today but still sore. My entire hip joint feels tender.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:40 PM   #456 (permalink)
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Sorry about the hip. That sucks.

Thank you for taking the time to type out all your food prep ideas and grocery list. This will help me, tremendously.
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:08 PM   #457 (permalink)
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No prob! We've been working on figuring this stuff out for all of 2008 now and I think I'm finally finding things that work. The key for me really is making sure I have enough to eat that will still fit into my diet. I keep a small tub of fat-free cream cheese and a baggie of the lunchmeat at work, so all I need to do is bring a baggie of celery and - voila - instant low-calorie, protein-rich snack.

Oh and I forgot to mention that the reason I'm doing all the tracking now (I just started up again last week) is because the scale has been stuck at 145-146 for about a month now. It went down to 144.4 right before vacation but went right back up again of course. So I really need to hammer down on my calories if I want to lose the rest of this fat (about 7-8 pounds I think). And if I'm eating 1300-1400 calories a day, I want it to be nutritionally balanced. I don't want to be too low in carbs or fat, because I know myself - I will STARVE and be obsessive and really unhappy and end up cramming my face with a 500-calorie starbucks scone on a lunchbreak. I haven't done that yet, but I certainly daydreamed about it.

Once I get to my desired weight, though, I really hope to get away from tracking and just eat healthfully. Every so often I might weigh myself just to make sure i'm not creeping up. The whole tracking thing, IMO, should be temporary. I don't think I can live by the numbers long term!
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Old 07-11-2008, 01:17 PM   #458 (permalink)
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And, I know I shouldn't be so tied to the # on the scale. My stomach is actually so lean now that the middle of my rib cage sticks out over my abs when I just stand normally. Makes me realize just how big my rib cage really is. And it's that time of the month so it's likely that in a few days my weight will be back down.

OH and speaking of girly stuff - I put on my shiny toy guns tank top last night without a bra and noticed how GREAT it looked.. hm! So I jumped up & down and didn't flop all over the place. Yes, ladies and gents, I now have perky, non-bouncy breasts. First time in my life and it was awesome. I had to show John. lol. My 2 bras I bought this spring are both too big for me now so I've certainly ventured into the land of the B-cup... it's bittersweet - yay for losing fat, boo for it being from the chesticle area. I'm still thrilled about being perky & non-bouncy though.

(and as I am writing this wondering if this is appropriate content for my log, I'm thinking about The Todd on Scrubs, the surgeon who suddenly appears whenever people talk about boobs or girl-on-girl action... lol)
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:06 PM   #459 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyMartini View Post
And, I know I shouldn't be so tied to the # on the scale. My stomach is actually so lean now that the middle of my rib cage sticks out over my abs when I just stand normally. Makes me realize just how big my rib cage really is. And it's that time of the month so it's likely that in a few days my weight will be back down.

OH and speaking of girly stuff - I put on my shiny toy guns tank top last night without a bra and noticed how GREAT it looked.. hm! So I jumped up & down and didn't flop all over the place. Yes, ladies and gents, I now have perky, non-bouncy breasts. First time in my life and it was awesome. I had to show John. lol. My 2 bras I bought this spring are both too big for me now so I've certainly ventured into the land of the B-cup... it's bittersweet - yay for losing fat, boo for it being from the chesticle area. I'm still thrilled about being perky & non-bouncy though.

(and as I am writing this wondering if this is appropriate content for my log, I'm thinking about The Todd on Scrubs, the surgeon who suddenly appears whenever people talk about boobs or girl-on-girl action... lol)
Yay for perkies! I think I may have to order me a STG tank. It can be a tank club. Loving the "Rainy Monday" song, to be honest.
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:53 PM   #460 (permalink)
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I'm impressed. I left the land of perky years ago, never to return...

At least I don't look like my gf who described what's left of her chest to me (no, I didn't see 'em - this was just her description): Two tube socks with pebbles in the bottom. Yikes!!!
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:04 PM   #461 (permalink)
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Yay for perky boobs in the STG tank! Just wore mine yesterday (but still with a bra).
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:42 PM   #462 (permalink)
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Woo hoo! I distinctly remember being in my early teens and seeing Carrie, thinking that all the breasts of all the women in the high school shower were completely different from mine. I remember seeing breasts in other shows & movies and always thinking mine were deformed (this was before I ever saw any other average woman’s breasts, which was in college… living in the dorms fixed that). Mine, even in my early teens, seemed saggy and decidedly not-perky … They’ve always been that way, ever since I can remember – even when I was in the high 130s for a few months (back in college thanks to poverty-induced starvation). I thought that’s just the way it was. NOW I KNOW. My pecs are bigger than they’ve ever been and I’m sure that has everything to do with it. Stronger pecs + lower body fat = perky titties

All these new things I’m discovering after a lifetime under a layer of chub. I love it.
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:48 AM   #463 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Stronger pecs + lower body fat = perky titties

All these new things I’m discovering after a lifetime under a layer of chub. I love it.
Yay! Can't wait to visit you and see how you look. But you know I like you no matter how you look.

God, perky titties? Are those a reality? I thought you had those only if you had a boob job. Did I tell you I was diagnosed as a 30DD? I was a 32D, but 32 was too big and now they make 30, but if you go down in the circumference, you go up in the cup... Go figure... That must be a new invention. Over the shoulder bolder holders must have been invented by a non-woman...
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:52 AM   #464 (permalink)
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WOW! If you're really curious about changes to your breasts have Chris take a "now" picture then take one as you progress through your workouts!

I weighed in at 144.0 today - hurrah! I'm 6 pounds away from my lowest evar adult weight (and I was 20 and starving, does that count?). Best shape of my life and tracking my food for a while is making a huge difference. As is having some carbs. I just didn't enjoy being on a very low-carb diet after a while and obsessed about the weirdest things (oreos, anyone?).

Now I eat fruit every day and my carb obsessions are gone. I don't sit at my desk & fixate on going to starbucks to buy a dried out scone, which is nice. I really like precision nutrition - I eat vegetables & protein at every meal EXCEPT my afternoon snack, when I eat fruit & protein. That's still compliant and works really well for me. and the 30/30/40 recommendation of f/c/p seems to work really well too. yay! I always forget to take my fish oil though. oops.

Workout 4 in stage 7 is today. I think I'm going to do stage 7 again; I don't want it to be over so quickly. After that, I'm moving on to starting strength. I am going to TX the last week of July, which is also when I'll finish the 2nd round of stage 7 and when I'll take my monthly pictures. So, it'll be a perfect time to move on to another program. I'm looking forward to it!
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:14 AM   #465 (permalink)
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WOW! If you're really curious about changes to your breasts have Chris take a "now" picture then take one as you progress through your workouts!
Now there's an idea for a challenge pics thread, assuming the server doesn't go down from all the hits.

Also remember that cutting out alcohol not only removes 7 cals/gram from your diet it also keeps your metabolism going at a healthy rate.
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Old 07-12-2008, 01:23 PM   #466 (permalink)
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LOL well I don't recommend posting them but hey - who am I to stop you?!

We're doing a refeed today. High carb, low fat. Should be great for my workout later today!

For breakfast I had my standard omelet. Lunch was nachos with Tostitos Light chips, fat-free cheddar, jalapenos, salsa, lettuce, and olives.

I'm shooting for about 250g of carbs today and currently stand at 53g. For a snack I'll probably have some fruit & lunchmeat... dinner is either a chicken breast & pasta, or a chicken breast between an ezekiel bun, and vegetables. And evening snack is half a tub (2 servings) of Ben & Jerry's half-baked lowfat yogurt. (70g of carbs). That should put me in the low-mid carb range.
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Old 07-13-2008, 08:09 AM   #467 (permalink)
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Yesterday:

I did some NEAT and my workout yesterday. For NEAT, I walked around the entire town center mall (outdoor mall, all the shops are entered from outside). It took me about 1.5 hours including time to stop & browse a few things but it was definitely exercise and a nice change of pace. I also got some a pair of underarmour workout shorts for $24 (down from $45) and a pair of Nike cargo pants (their ATG line) for $14 (down from $40). And some workout socks.

Stage 7, Workout 4

Barbell Squat
1x8x95
1x8x100
Triple digits, hurrah! Still have a long way to go until I squat my weight, but I'm getting there. I tried 105 but couldn't stand back up - I had to sit down & let the barbell catch on the safety bars


Dumbbell Squat, Heels on Weight Plates
4x15x25e

Dumbbell Shoulder Press
4x15x15e
The first set of these is always fine - then the next one is pretty rough. The last 2 I usually have to pause around rep 10 and let the lactic acid get partly carried away (takes about 4-5 seconds) to finish the set. I know this is cheating in a way but i refuse to go lower in weight. My next round of these (thursday), I plan to go all the way through this without any pauses.

Step Up
4x15x15e

Underhand Grip Lat Pulldown
4x15x80

This workout, I was able to keep my form 100% (minus the pausing in the shoulder presses) and stick to the 30-second rest periods. Definitely an improvement from last time.
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Old 07-13-2008, 08:15 AM   #468 (permalink)
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Yesterday was refeed day. My goal was ~250g of carbohydrates, and I failed to meet that - I got too full. But I got close and on top of that got to eat things that I really enjoyed.

I ate:

1. regular omelet, no mozzarella this time
2. nachos with fat free cheddar, veggies, and tostitos "light" chips (olestra, I love you)
3. Zone "perfect" graham fudge bar
4. Laura's Lean Beef patty on a sesame Ezekiel bun and sweet potato fries (sweet potato fries, I also love you)
5. a little more chips with 2 gin & tonics (1.5oz gin each + diet tonic)
6. Ben & Jerry's Half-Baked lowfat frozen yogurt

Day's totals:
1977 Calories
40g Fat
236g Carbohydrates
121g Protein
32g Alcohol

Total damage: up to 145.4 pounds (from 144.4 yesterday) and higher on the hydration than yesterday. I should be right back down to ~144 by Tuesday. I hope to be in the low 143's (or lower) by next weekend. If not, no Saturday refeed.
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:40 AM   #469 (permalink)
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Weighed in at 143.8 this morning. yay!
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:42 AM   #470 (permalink)
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Nice, DM! Wait til you hit the 130's! I'm not even a scale watcher normally, but I have to admit I did a little happy dance the first time I saw that "3"!
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Old 07-14-2008, 06:56 PM   #471 (permalink)
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Yeah, I can't wait. I have to admit, ONE of the reasons I started daily weighing was so that in case I had an abnormally low weight day (like today!), I could celebrate it. That, and just to keep myself on track. I know that if I only weigh every Sunday, then I can eat more at the beginning part of the week and work the rest of the week to get any resulting weight back off. Not a great strategy.

Today I rode the bike for 40 minutes, steady state. Trying to keep my appetite down & since I cut out intervals it's been working. I think I've found my sweet spot - 1200-1300 calories, 50% of which are from protein, 1 hour of intense weight lifting 3x per week, and 1-2 hours of bike riding a week. In the past 10 days, I've lost 2 pounds and haven't been hungry or obsessive. YES! If I keep this up, I will definitely be under 140 by my bday.

Eats:
1. Egg white omelet - ham, veg, etc
2. 1 slice turkey breast, salad with ham, veg, lite blue cheese dressing
3. tomato/cuke salad and 1 slice turkey breast
4. whole grain pasta with chicken breast, spinach, tomatoes, and mozzarella

Total so far today, 925 cals, 23/28/49 f/c/p

I always end up higher on the protein side than I want to. I guess it doesn't matter and maybe I should change my expectations. This way of eating is working for me and I actually like it (vs being miserable but suffering through). So perhaps my breakdown should be more like 50% protein and 50% other stuff without going over 30% on the carbs or under 20% on the fat.

My snack tonight will probably be.... hmmm... I made this yummy protein shake last night that was about 220 calories - chocolate protein + sugar-free chocolate fudge pudding powder + peanut butter powder (YES it's awesome!) + cottage cheese. Might make it again...
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:10 PM   #472 (permalink)
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Hey DM,
Some questions: How did you decide to eat 1200-1300 calories with 50% protein each day? Is this from a nutrition manual? You don't feel lightheaded or weak? As well as f/c/p, do you also keep track of vitamins, minerals, other stuff that you might need?

I saw that FitDay helps track stuff like that... I did try it but haven't been majorly using it... with all the working out you've been doing, is your body getting enough nutrients? I'm just curious. i don't plan to do the same, but just wondering what your routine for planning meals is so you can get enough of everything, and how you use fitday to calculate it so closely... you can just give me a general overview and maybe i can learn more from there.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:49 PM   #473 (permalink)
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The 1200-1300 calories was what I finally worked myself down to, to figure out WHERE in the hell my body will actually lose weight. I tried 1700. Then 1600. Then 1500... got some movement there but it was like 1-2 pounds a month. Then 1400 for a while... not much progress. Once I dropped way down, the weight started coming off.

My priorities right now are:
1. Lose fat
2. Get stronger
3. Don't pass out during a workout :P

#2 is going to happen slowly while I work on #1. Once I get down to a body fat I'm happy with (8 more pounds?) I'm going to up the calories to ~1800 and work on building strength. One of these days i might try some metabolic repair to get myself up to 2400 cals/day without gaining weight. But not until I do some fat loss first. I think that's backwards, but oh well.

The 50% came from trial & error. Precision Nutrition's individualization had me at 40/30/30 p/f/c but I find that if I eat on the lower end of the protein (38-42% of my calories), I'm constantly hungry. The more protein I eat, the fuller I am and the more energy I have for my workouts.

I don't feel lightheaded since I eat about every 3-4 hours. Once at 7am, again at 10, again at 12, again at 3, again at 6-6:30, and sometimes again at 8:30-9pm. When I eat a lot of carbs I am STARVING at this level of calories. The protein definitely helps and I'm actually honestly surprised that I can go this low & be happy. Of course, I'm doing higher calories (refeeds) on Saturdays to re-adjust my hormones & keep my body from completely adjusting to such low calories.

As for entering into fitday... to be honest it's kind of a pain in the ass because it's time-consuming. Some people here like thedailyplate.com and calorieking.com (I think you pay for that one) but I've used fitday for a few years now (on & off) so I'm familiar with it. It uses the USDA food database & that's it. Other programs like the ones I mentioned above also have a LOT of commercial foods in their food lists (like Lean Cuisines and stuff like that). So if you eat a lot of packaged foods, those might be better. Or, use the "add custom food" part of fitday.

One of the things I use EVERY day at home is a digital kitchen scale. That way I know if I'm getting 4oz of chicken or 6oz of chicken.

You can check out how detailed the food entry is by clicking on my fitday log link in my signature. That might give you an idea of how fitday requires you to enter stuff.

After you enter food, it automatically calculates the day's total calories for you as well as running totals (in g) of protein, fat, carbs, and other things (like saturated fat). It also gives you a % breakdown of what you're eating so that any time during the day as I enter my food I can see if I'm on track. If I'm too low in fat (maybe it's around 20%), I know that i need to eat a piece of string cheese for a snack. Too high in protein (like 60%) I need to maybe eat some fruit & cheese to balance it out.

It's still a lot of trial & error and figuring stuff out, but that's also a MAJOR part of the process for me - figuring this shit out. I didn't think I'd need to go nearly this low in calories to lose weight, but that's a sign to me that I need to look at trying to manipulate my metabolic rate some time on down the road.

And all of this above is a product of reading a lot on this board, on t-nation.com (and figureathlete.com), and a lot of books - TNT diet, Precision Nutrition, NROL4W, NROL (original), Lyle McDonald's blog/board, Flexible Guide to Dieting, Sports Nutrition, Good Calories Bad Calories, John Berardi's articles, the Precision Nutrition forums, and whatever else comes along. I'm finishing up Ultimate Diet 2.0 (by Lyle) right now. I've also read 3 books by Mark Rippetoe but they're not really about nutrition & more about form & training. But they still help me understand how my body is reacting to what I'm doing and what I'm eating.

I'm sure that in the next year I'll read as many books or more on all this stuff & figure out yet more things that might help me achieve my ever-changing fitness goals.

OK that was a long post.
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Old 07-15-2008, 06:47 AM   #474 (permalink)
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Oh and my routine for planning all my nutrients is pretty unscientific, and based on John Berardi's PN.

1. Get 2 servings of vegetables with every meal. If no veg, then at least fruit and only 1-2 times a day.

2. Get >=20g of protein with every meal. Period.

3. Take a multivitamin and fish oil daily.

I completely ignore the food pyramid (or whatever the new thing is now) and the USDA requirements. 6-8 servings of grains? 60% of my calories from carbohydrates? Sparing amounts of healthy fats? Yes, thank you Kraft and Kellogg and Nabisco.

Throughout the day, I enter my food into fitday so I don't forget. Sometimes it's frustrating because how am I supposed to know whether I've had "ham, fresh, lean only eaten" or "ham, chopped, lean only eaten" ...?? I try to go with the most basic one since we don't eat a lot of processed food (I'm assuming the chopped ham COMES chopped?) but it's still hard & sometimes a guessing game.

And recipes are a pain in the ass to add. Sometimes I'll enter each individual ingredient instead of create a recipe. Other times I create a recipe - you have to go to a blank day, add all the ingredients, write down the macros, then create a "custom food" based on the totals that you wrote down from fitday. I hear the PC version is not like that so maybe one of these days I'll spend the $20.

So, it's not a science and it doesn't have to be perfect. But, it helps me understand what I'm eating within a reasonable margin of error.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:27 AM   #475 (permalink)
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Wow it looks like you have really figured things out. And some great progress on the scale!

I have been re-evaluating everything over the past few weeks and decided to start tracking online. I was just writing and totaling everything in a journal. Even though its a pain to enter everything online, I can really see what I am eating throughout the day and I think it will help me watch calories better. Thanks for sharing all this. I am learning and reading everyday just like you and hope to get it all figured out soon enough!
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:35 AM   #476 (permalink)
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For recipes, I'd use a recipe site like recipezaar.com, which figures out the nutritional stuff for you. Then I'd copy that from recipezaar to my tracking site/software. Done.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:15 PM   #477 (permalink)
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Yeah, I have Living Cookbook (well, the trial) so I guess I could just use that. In fact, I like it better than FitDay but the one thing it's missing is a % breakdown of my calories. I can manually calculate it but I get lazy.

BTW, I really wanted a beer last night. I was craving Arrogant Bastard, which you can't even get out here... probably a good thing. It's on my top 10 list... I don't even know what my top 10 list is ... let's see....

in no particular order:
1. Rogue Brutal Bitter
2. Huyghe Delirium Tremens
3. Stone Arrogant Bastard
4. Dogfish Head 90 Minute IPA (probably my #1)
5. Dogfish Head Raison D'etre (sp?)
6. Ommegang Witte
7. Unibroue La Fin du Monde
8. He'brew rye IPA (Lenny I think)
9. Avery Maharaja IPA
10. Flying Dog Doggie Style

That was harder than I thought.

I'm thirsty.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:22 PM   #478 (permalink)
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Interesting list... I like the brewers on it, but prefer some of their other brews like...

Rogue's Chocolate Stout
Huyghe Delirium Noel
Stone Russian Imperial Stout
Dogfish Head Brown Ale
Ommegang Hennepin (or Three Philosophers)

The rest I've not had anything from (He'brew or Avery) or I agree with you (Flying Dog, Dogfishhead Raison d'Etre).

If my keg of Lancaster's Milk Stout (highly recommended) kicks before the end of the month, I'll look forward to tapping Ommegang's Hennepin Saison (highest recommendation) AND tasting it, in August.
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Old 07-15-2008, 01:53 PM   #479 (permalink)
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Yeah, I'm definitely fond of IPAs/APAs/Tripels and not as fond of browns/porters/stouts. There are some of the latter I like (rogue shakespeare, stone smoked porter, rogue hazelnut brown) but given a choice I'd take the former.

I've liked everything I've had from He'brew & Avery.

John, on the other hand, has tastes a bit more similar to yours - milk stouts, porters, quadrupels... So I get to taste those without having an entire pint/glass. He loves the baltic porters - have you tried many of those? I am actually quite fond of them as well.
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Old 07-15-2008, 02:04 PM   #480 (permalink)
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Yes, when Heavyweight Brewing (NJ) was still around, they made a baltic porter - Perkuno's Hammer - which was absolutely amazing. When they went out of business (the owners wanted to own a brewpub where they didn't have to brew the same thing over and over again like a production brewery), they ended up licensing the recipe to Victory (PA), which put out its own version called Baltic Thunder. I've had both and really enjoyed both.
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