Never 2 Late 2 Chase the Dream (it's better than liposuction)

[DanceDiva]

Originally Posted by kfisherx

Okay the workout. I decided to do HIT first today. It just works better for me if I run before I lift. Lifting kicks my ass to were I don't want to run but running seems to warm me up for lifting.

This is the first time that I saw something in your log that I thought I'd be capable of Lifting.

I'm going to try intervals first. I think I might like this order too.

P.S. Still girly

[kfisherx]

Espi: I started this adventure in Nov timeframe so about 5 months now. I have been bulking and lifting for about 3.5. I give credit to this board and people like you for where I am today in my knowledge. When I first came here the folks embraced me and then gently nudged me to start logging. This made me ramp up quickly as you have to be able to articulate in order to log. My first several pages of logs I did not know what my exercises or equipment was called. It is funny to look back at it. Reading other logs (such as yours) really inspires and teaches me and on a daily basis I absorb that knowledge like a sponge. I hope one day my log does the same for beginners.

[Espi]

You sure do absorb facts really fast! I'm thoroughly amazed at the pace you set.

I do wish that back in 2004 when I ramped up my calories I would have ramped them up more slowly as there's no time like being a newbie (or in my case, starting all over again after 6 mo. w/o lifting) and muscle memory. It's the only time when you can pull off that magic of gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time.
You did just that and boy, you are in a truly happy place.

It's also good to see someone who's quite OCD. Liked your Excel tool quite a bit as it showed a neat little thing I'd overlooked, viz. how much P I need for building muscle.

Re the nutrition there's a little trick I'm all excited about! I've been calorie/carb cycling for quite a while but never reallhy took the protein cycling as seriously. Difference would mostly be between 20-40g of P. This month I took it to new heights and get in 110g on rest days (1.75g/kg BW) and push it up towards 180g (nearly 3g/kgBW) on training days. This way I hope that protein won't get abused for fuel, but will nearly exclusively be used as building blocks.
It seems to pay off, as for the very first time I'm watching something extremely exciting: losing fat (during the cut) and gaining LBM (during my mini-bulk). I'm not yet sure whether it's a fluke or not.. can only rely on Omron and sometimes I respond badly to foods, so the LBM can be either fluids or muscle. Soooo exciting!

Why am I telling you.. ah simply because you were so kind to give that Excel tool to everyone plus you are/were an apple. Apples need to unite.

[kfisherx]

Thanks again for the kind words and for providing so much information to all of us. But here is where I am a newbie. What is an apple with respect to people and why am I one? I can guess it has something to do with body shape but cannot quite make the connection to my shape and the apple.

I am too new to all of this to really get what the cycling thing is all about. On my bulk I am getting 250 or more grams of protein a day. I did not realize that there was such a thing as too much protein really when you are bulking and lifting heavy. So much to learn......

[karenmc6]

250 g protein - that's what i should be consuming if i adhere to the 1g protein for each lb bodyweight, but i'm lucky to get half of that in! i'm basically doing tnt and really liking it, but i am just not hungry enough to eat that much protein and i can only consume so much whey... what's your secret??

btw - you look terrific and i really love your avatar photo - so dramatic and strong, yet so feminine. karen

[Espi]

Karla about the P: protein can't be stored but can only be used as fuel or as a building block. There's quite a few people saying that eating a lot of protien all the time makes your body lazy and use it for fuel rather than to build muscle with or whatever other useful purpose it has. For fuel your body should rely mostly on carbs and/or fats NOT on protein.

One of the major reasons I lowered protein intake last year was because in the end, protein = calories. When you want to lower calories, but keep protein very high, this makes for a very boring diet.
Another reason was that my doctor told me to lower intake as I had too much P in my urine. Not that I was overly concerned, but I did so for a few weeks and noticed I wasn't losing muscle, but my diet got a bit sloppy coz of all the fun calories I suddenly had.
So I put 1+1 together and also upon rereading about protein benefits for athletes :
Protein Requirements
plus

TESTOSTERONE NATION - Protein Cycling for Maximum Gains which takes protein cycling to a truly absurd extreme,

I made the decision to go to a normal decent protein intake for rest days , viz. 110g (2.4g/kg LBM , approx. 1.8g/kg BW) and take it to180g (3.75g/kg LBM or 3g/kg BW) on training days.

The non-easy part is that I don't do PP at least rarely if ever do it.. I opened a container with Hemp PP and will start using that one. Fortunately I've become really fond of eggs, fish, chicken & meat.
The nicer part is that it is easier to not get so lost in junkfood as I used to on workout days. I've been zigzagging for over a year and have started to eat too much junk, coz of the ability to raise calories so much when rest days are so low. Now I set the protein bar so much higher, there's less tendency to do so.


Oh, and at the start of your log you said that you carried all your extra weight in the mid-section. That's what apple(type)s do. Pear(type)s store their fat on their hips & upper legs. The former is easier to get rid off once you know what you are doing, but the latter is healthier. Mine was a lot of stress-fat , partially induced by too much cycling and not enough sleep plus eating too irregularly (sometimes even not at all when too stressed).

[kfisherx]

Okay so today was another gym workout (see trainer tomorrow) When I last saw trainer we worked on isolating my arms during exercises and having me focus on releasing my shoulders so that I can get more eveness in my workouts. He assigned this work to me for this weekend and commented how next week he wanted to work my legs. So today was yet another upper body day. I can tell ya man that I am getting big arms and shoulders now.

Shoulder/tris/pecs

HIIT on tready = 20 min at 3.5% (7.5mph and 3.0 mph) 1 min intervals

SuperSet1
Shoulder flyes standing (out)
3x10 (12.5)
Arnolds
1x15 (12.5)
2x10 (25)

SuperSet2
Bench shoulder flyes
1x15 (20)
1x10 (25)
1x10 (30)
Close grip bench press
1x15 (20)
1x10 (25)
1x10 (30)

SuperSet3
Close grip bench Push ups
3x12 (bw)
Twenty ones (I still love these)
1x20lb, 2x30lb

Pec Cable Flyes
1x20 (30lb)
2x10 (40lb)

SuperSet4
Cable rope lat pull downs
2x15 (50lb)
1x10 (70lb)
Overhead tri cable ext
3x15 (40lb)

I am starting to really like these shoulder/tri/pec days. I can get a really nice hard pump going in these workouts and I am starting to really enjoy that feeling.

Yesterday my girlfrend came over to go out with me and when she came I was not yet dressed. I was in my shorts and tank top (how I sleep) and she commented that I was perhaps looking a little to muscled now. LOL!!! I just noticed that I think I am bigger now than the chick on the NROLW cover as well. The one that everyone's parents seems to think is too buff. My trip back to my own parents will be pretty interesting. I will be at the top of my first ever bulk. Great timing!

[kfisherx]

Originally Posted by karenmc6

250 g protein - that's what i should be consuming if i adhere to the 1g protein for each lb bodyweight, but i'm lucky to get half of that in! i'm basically doing tnt and really liking it, but i am just not hungry enough to eat that much protein and i can only consume so much whey... what's your secret??

Karen, I was thinking about this question all day yesterday and today. The answer is that there is no "secret" or magic to it. I very deliberately eat only meals that include protein. Everytime I eat there is protein. I have begun cooking all my meals so that I can cut back the carbs and double the protein. I am single handedly making the chicken population here in Portland endangered. I made a baked spaghetti last night and added 2times the meat (turkey burger) and halfed the pasta. I make sure that every single time I eat there is at least 20grams of protein in that meal. (most times it is higher) I down a gainer after I workout (54grams of protein) and often times I do a protein juice (I have a yummy cherry one) before bedtime. When I wake up, I eat Kashi cereal with 13 grams of protein per serving (times 2 servings) and milk at 11 grams. That is 37 grams of protein when I wak up. I almost always eat fruit and cottage cheese somewhere in my day, etc.

It was deadly hard for me to get to this and I had to make myself eat even if I wasn't hungry. As you know all this protein makes you feel full. At first I set a timer to make sure that I got food in me. Now I can pretty much do it on my own. It is still really hard though. I think that this is as hard for me as it is for the girls who are on a deficit and cutting.

[marygrace]

Looks like a great workout! I remember when I started lifting, before I got involved with NROL4W, I would have some separate arm days in my routine and they were always killer. My arms were always exhausted by the end. But it was cool to have a workout without any squats or lunges. My legs would always feel fresh to use the treadmill afterwards.

[LoriAnne]

Originally Posted by kfisherx

Okay so today was another gym workout (see trainer tomorrow) When I last saw trainer we worked on isolating my arms during exercises and having me focus on releasing my shoulders so that I can get more eveness in my workouts. He assigned this work to me for this weekend and commented how next week he wanted to work my legs. So today was yet another upper body day. I can tell ya man that I am getting big arms and shoulders now.

Shoulder/tris/pecs

HIIT on tready = 20 min at 3.5% (7.5mph and 3.0 mph) 1 min intervals

SuperSet1
Shoulder flyes standing (out)
3x10 (12.5)
Arnolds
1x15 (12.5)
2x10 (25)

SuperSet2
Bench shoulder flyes
1x15 (20)
1x10 (25)
1x10 (30)
Close grip bench press
1x15 (20)
1x10 (25)
1x10 (30)

SuperSet3
Close grip bench Push ups
3x12 (bw)
Twenty ones (I still love these)
1x20lb, 2x30lb

Pec Cable Flyes
1x20 (30lb)
2x10 (40lb)

SuperSet4
Cable rope lat pull downs
2x15 (50lb)
1x10 (70lb)
Overhead tri cable ext
3x15 (40lb)

I am starting to really like these shoulder/tri/pec days. I can get a really nice hard pump going in these workouts and I am starting to really enjoy that feeling.

Yesterday my girlfrend came over to go out with me and when she came I was not yet dressed. I was in my shorts and tank top (how I sleep) and she commented that I was perhaps looking a little to muscled now. LOL!!! I just noticed that I think I am bigger now than the chick on the NROLW cover as well. The one that everyone's parents seems to think is too buff. My trip back to my own parents will be pretty interesting. I will be at the top of my first ever bulk. Great timing!

Awesome workout Karla! I also really enjoyed reading the convo. between you and Espi about protein requirements. I swear I just need to break down and hire a sports nutritionist to follow me around 24/7. I'm up 2.5 lbs., but it doesn't feel or look like a good 2.5 lbs. Some days my brain just aches from trying to figure out my "happy place".

My husband commented about a month ago that "my arms are just about as big as he would want them to be and still look attractive". It's funny that he never asked how big I wanted his pot-belly to get!!
Ah, the eye of the beholder, huh?

[Kirjava]

Originally Posted by LoriAnne

Some days my brain just aches from trying to figure out my "happy place".

LoriAnne, this is brilliant. This just about sums it up for me. Seriously--can I put this quote in my signature?

Karla--you go girl and make those arms and shoulder big! Grrrrrruffff! Ack. Why are women's bodies so confined to one type of shape/beauty? Not exactly a new question or lament, I realize, but it frustrates me greatly. Especially since fit, lean muscle is truly beautiful!

[Espi]

Once again on protein requirements.. that very first article is pretty good and speaks about 3 gram of P per kg BW for a person who's lean and lifts weights OFTEN.
In general, women who carry more bf% are advised to take the recommendations for LBM rather than BW if they feel their P intake would get too high on the BW recommendations alone. Most often quoted is 2.2g/kg LBM (1g/lbs) .
I do NOT know however, at what bf% you can safely go to the BW recommendation or vice versa. I'm figuring that for women that'd be 25 up to 30% bf?

Yet i also liked the perspective of the 2nd one as it talks about how people manage to not lose LBM on atrociously low P intakes of like 0.5g/kg BW. I know I've been on such low intake myself for a very long time, and survived it.. not brilliantly, but still.

Lyle McDonald, who's partially my food guru and who wrote that first article, more or less said it was ridiculous to take P that low.

It does however make sense to let the body know that hey, that extra protein I'm eating, is for my musklez! Not to be broken down for simple fuel, you hear!!!

After all, isn't the purpose of eating so much protein , to build up more lean body mass, rather than just get expensive urine? Protein isn't cheap yanno!

[kfisherx]

Espi, thanks for reposting on this subject of protein consumption. I read the articles you posted and I am trying to find information on the whole cycling thing to see how I feel about it. Right now it is too early for me to come to any conclusions. I am also a newbie so being consistent in any program is what will provide me with best results so for now that is what I will do. I can't wait to hear about the outcome of your first results. Have you started to low protein month yet?

Oh yeah and about the "apple" thing. Definately I am one.

[kfisherx]

Originally Posted by LoriAnne

My husband commented about a month ago that "my arms are just about as big as he would want them to be and still look attractive". It's funny that he never asked how big I wanted his pot-belly to get!!
Ah, the eye of the beholder, huh?

Isn't that the truth? Personally I am loving the way this looks and feels. I am going to get bigger and bigger over the next month baby! My trainer says that after my cut I will be sad at how little I am and I will be happy to go back to bulking 'cause it looks so cool. I think he is not a big fan of women at 10% of less bf.