My NROL Experience

[L'ilJ]

How tall are you?

[stingo]

Originally Posted by L'ilJ

How tall are you?

5'8" - which makes my BMI still in the obese category.

[UConnJulie]

Tom, don't go by what the charts say ... honestly ... my hubby is 5'6" and VERY muscular ... he's probably 10% BF (without trying ... eating cookies and chips nearly every day ... I could KILL him!!) and weighs roughly 180. According to the charts, he is also obese (based upon BMI). Yet he wears a 32 waist jean. And has a visible 6-pack. And can bang out chins and push ups like you can't imagine. Clearly not obese. Sooooooo ... use the chart to give you a general idea, but if you carry lots more lean tissue, you can't get hung up on the charts. The charts tell me I should weigh roughly 120 lbs ... yet I carry 115 lbs of lean tissue, so 140 is a better goal for me. Have you had your bodyfat tested by someone reliable with calipers?

[stingo]

Yes - one reading was unreliable I think 17% for 3 sites, and 27% (which I suspect is more accurate) using a 7 site test.

[L'ilJ]

Julie's right, BMI doesn't mean anything. Bodyfat is a better measure. I think you just have to keep tracking that periodically, along w/measurements and weight and stop when you're happy. First let's just try to find a diet plan that works for you and busts you out of your plateau while keeping energy levels up! We'll worry about optimum weight later.

[stingo]

So if I list myself as moderately active (using 1.5), and enter in my stats - an online calculator gives me a bmr of 2182, and caloric needs of 3273. so I'd need about 2800 calories right?

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by stingo

Roland, I've been at this weight since at least the start of the year I think.

I didn't realize. That must be very frustrating.

Like you said, you've either been eating at maint all this time, or grossly undereating.

You decide, based on your recent tracking and investigation.

If you've been eating plenty, then that's good news going forward, just slightly drop the cals and get things going.

If you've undereaten, then it's going to be a bit of work to get your metabolism out of starvation mode and back to losing fat again.

Assuming it's the former, a good longterm plan might include some sort of calorie cycling plan, as suggested. The cycle can take an almost infinite number of forms, however. There's no magical cycling plan that works best.

Personally, I find cycling a different amount every day and big freakin' pain in the ass (not that they don't work), but we can always discuss options. Everyone's different.

[Lost Dog]

Originally Posted by stingo

So if I list myself as moderately active (using 1.5), and enter in my stats - an online calculator gives me a bmr of 2182, and caloric needs of 3273. so I'd need about 2800 calories right?

That's a good starting point.

I usually pick my activity level based on my non-exercise activity, which is embarrassingly close to sedentary. Then I manually figure my exercise calories for the whole week, add them up and divide my 7. Still not exact, but either method is a starting point from where you can adjust up or down.

This second method also allows you to feel more comfortable using the more food on workout days method of eating, if you want to do that. On lifting days, for example, you might want a protein shake just before and/or after lifting. You can figure that in to those calories.

I think higher cal and carb meals are better after a workout, anyway, so by eating at a lower number on off days, and allowing a higher number on workout days, you can still lose fat and pay a bit more attention to post-workout nutrition without feeling like you have to cut calories at other meals/snacks.

BTW, Lou Schuler (NROL's author) is obese by BMI standards. I've met him. He's pretty trim, just muscular. I'm overweight on BMI. I currently striving for obesity...

[Victoria]

This is a very interesting conversation. I think my situation is somewhat similar to Stingo's...stalled weight loss. If someone has been in starvation mode for a while because of continuous calorie deficits, how long (weeks, months, years) would it take to get the metabolism cranked up again by increasing calories?

I understand your frustration and struggle, Stingo!!!

[stingo]

Well according to fitday I've got about 2700 calories today - with a good percentage of protein due to having flank steak for dinner.

Victoria, thanks - I just find it interesting that it should stall out now rather than earlier due to a calorie deficit.

[lance02]

Stingo, I know you're working hard at this. I think you'll break through the plateau soon. Hang in there.

[Espi]

Originally Posted by Victoria

This is a very interesting conversation. I think my situation is somewhat similar to Stingo's...stalled weight loss. If someone has been in starvation mode for a while because of continuous calorie deficits, how long (weeks, months, years) would it take to get the metabolism cranked up again by increasing calories?

metabolic slowdown that's not due to a very underactive thyroid, but simply to too much stress can be repaired in a rather short time. Just eat about your estimated maintenance or if you don't feel that adventurous, keep upping by 100 kcal each week until you start gaining too much weight (5 lbs/2 kg).
What will work even better is to cut back the volume/intensity of exercise. For ME FL2+3 were too much stress, especially the required rest periods of exactly xxx seconds or yy seconds were draining me. As a former perfectionist I was constantly worried about not being able to 'hit' the targeted rest period. After I just allowed myself to finish a set in the time I wanted things went much better. And probably mostly not even in a much different time period after all!

But actually I felt even better dropping the FL 2+3 and going back to the old heavy training schedule. Maintenance picked up. Even moreso when I increased the frequency of workouts from 3 WO/wk to every other day. It's always the same actually: 3/wk is not enough , 4 WO's /wk drain me too much and every single time I go back to the EOD schedule that's a PITA for remembering whether or not I can say yes/no to social affairs.

For Stingo the advice is really simple:
- go on to do a strength workout
- stay around 2700 kcal for a while and then drop intake on rest days to the level you can bear to eat , viz. perhaps 1600 kcal
- increase intake to 3000 kcal on workout days.

You are going to be very surprised about how fast you'll burn through the fat!

[LWilson212]

Stingo-

I'm on the opposite side of the state from you, Pittsburgh area. Everyone is a heavy beer drinker here!

I don't think you should go by the charts for what you "should" weigh. My boyfriend is 5' 8" and the lightest he has even been was 180 - 185 and he was wearing 33 waist jeans. He just has a stocky muscular build.

It sounds like you are getting a lot of good diet advice. I've always been so afraid of gaining weight back that I didn't want to experiment. But I feel like the point I missed for so long was that it is not any specific diet or program so much as change that makes weight loss and fitness gains happen.

Keep up the good work.

Leah

[Espi]

For the record, the key thing is to achieve a real deficit instead of an imaginary deficit.
If your maintenance is dropping that's no good. You'll want to keep your real maintenance as high as possible. The only way to achieve this is by having enough days in which you eat at or above maintenance.
Naturally this will mean that you'll need to drop intake lower on other days.

Generally one is adviced to not drop intake more than 20% below the real maintenance.
if your actual mtn would be 3000 kcal (hopefully?) then this would mean you'd need an average of 2400 kcal.
Doing the calculations that would be
- 2 days of 3000 kcal
- 5 days of (2400*7)-(3000*2) = 10800/5 = 2160 kcal.
or 3 days of 3000 kcal
- 4 days of (2400*7) - (3000*3)=7800/4 = 1950 kcal.

Just play with the numbers to get at your preferred eating pattern.

[stingo]

Thanks all for spending so much time in my log helping me out. Got on the scale this morning to the tune of 241. Although I had my cheat meal friday I certainly did not eat enough to put on 11 lbs in 2-3 days. I know at least part of it is not taking my diuretic over the weekend which would account for some lbs, but not all I don't think. And to top it off the monthly birthday celebration is underway at work so some sampling's been going on. Ah well there's always tomorrow.

[UConnJulie]

Tom, don't be surprised if a good part of that is water from not taking your diuretic ... I have been known to carry 5-10 lbs of water at certain times of the month ...