Go with the flow!

[Espi]

Something I've done in the past year and which has helped quite a bit was to not take my bicycle for errands, but to walk if time isn't pressing. It takes more effort to walk, esp. when I have parcels to take and groceries to fetch. It wasn't a huge difference, but the calories do add up.

Cardio is really weird.. I've got a past of monstrous bike rides. One of them was e.g. a nonstop bike ride from Paris to Amsterdam during which I didn't eat anything at all. My appetite would be completely off all the time due to stress. About 2 days later though , appetite would be through the roof.
I'm seeing this back in miniature version now.

Right now I'm back to an approach that has allowed me to eat less calories overall, viz eat extra carbs approx. 1 hr pre-bed time. It increases performance but recovery is not as good. I could cut out the carbs pre-bed time again, and put more of them inside the workout.
Not enough carbs in the body = less performance.
But eating too many the night before = less recovery carbs.
Carbs before a workout make me fall asleep. After a workout they can make me overeat.

The very best time always ends up being right then & there during a workout and preferably not the fastest ones.. I'm digging either our own supplement IsoSpark (Galya helped with the name) that has palatinose (a very slow, yet easily digested carb) or concoctions made from jams & fruit conserves

Post-workout I also seem to do well on regular fruit: mangoes are excellent. Bananas a bit tricky.

[Espi]

Tuesday Feb26
Triple Anti-KISS 3-2A
all weights in kilograms

DYNAMIC STRETCHING
None today, I just had a class in self-defence, so I considered myself to to be limb & loose enough.

waves
A1 db bench press
WU: (15x2)x5
(17x2)x6 (0)– (18x2)x6 (+ 2 r)
(19x2)x4 (0) – (20x2)x4 (+2r)
(21x2; 6RM)x2 (-1r) – (22x2; 5RM) x 6

YES!
In superset with
A2 bb bent over row w UH grip
WU: 35x5
40x6 – 42,5x8
45x4 – 47,5x6
50 (11RM)x4 – 52,5 (9RM) x8
Hadn’t done bb rows in ages so started very conservatively. Was quite pleased.


PREPATORY WORK
B1 front squat
WU: hang clean w 35
WU: 35x5
45x7
47,5 (8RM) x 9
YES!

ASSISTANCE LIFTS

C1 standing military press
20 (13RM) x13
18x8


D1 triceps rope pushdown
D2 pec deck
Ditched both today and will probably keep ditching them until maintenance.

METABOLIC WORK
None today, no more time and was by now pretty pooped.

ODD EXERCISES
None today.

CARDIO
None today. At least not indoor.

General: I was quite elated, since I had anticipated a truly lousy session because it would follow after a class of self-defence for women (mostly jiu-jitsu moves) that makes me mentally tired. However, helped by ergogenic aids , viz. Fortega, Energia as well as some Karno4 I smashed right through a few PRs as I felt überfocussed. Yes!
It also helped to know I would be ditching the surplus exercises and just focus on the basic compound moves, so I didn’t need to ‘save’ energy for those.
Now it’s only a matter of being able to fall asleep… and to unfocus and relax.. that’s the downside of working out so late. Carbs & tryptophan will help.

Training statistics
Volume: 5866 (-3382)
# of sets: 24 (-6) # of reps: 120 (-72) - avg reps/set : 5,0 (-1,4) - kg/rep : 48,9 (+0,7)

[Kirjava]

Awesome workout! Congrats on the PRs! I love it when I'm surprised by a workout...meaning when I assume it's not going to be awesome and it is. That's one of the things that keeps me going to the gym.

[Espi]

Yes, it's great to have a better workout than anticipated.

Especially in the last year since I've started pulling/pushing REAL weights, viz. go for heavier weights and lower reps, I've noticed how important focus is. And that's something I can't just always have. I'm generally a very chatty person, easily distracted by others.
This was just fine when I was doing high rep lowish weights as they require a different type of strength that doesn't require as much focus. But nowadays, I suddenly understand why people get annoyed when I start talking to them mid-set.. I am annoyed too all of a sudden, because it's costing me strength. How weird!

Now.. and Sportsgirl is going to recognize all this , a few gems from Matt (aka PMDL) which made me decide to drop the extra exercises. I'm not going to drop the odd exercises at all, but probably do less of them, just 1-2 not 2-3 at the time.

It's a reminder why it doesn't make sense to only concentrate on the basic compound lifts when eating at a deficit. One can do metabolic work, but this should be seen as 'weighted cardio' , not as strength training.

It gets a bit more in-depth than just "don't high reps" but that's the gist of it at any rate.

If you want a more specific setup, remember that volume is roughly equivalent to energy expenditure, acute fatigue (in a given set, how close you are to RM) is related to muscle damage, and intensity is what provides neural and mechanical overload.

In other words, it's contingent on calories as to the modifications and sacrifices to volume.

You may be able to handle 5x5 + 3x10, all sets heavy, while fed and bulking.

Drop cals to maintenance, maybe this goes to 4x5 + 2x10.

Drop to a mild deficit, and this could go to maybe 2-3x5 + 1x10

Go into somethign more severe, and I'd say limit it to 1-2x5 and no assistance work at all, certainly not any fatiguing-high rep stuff. This wouldn't necessarily exclude light (ie, not-fatiguing) pump work for glycogen depletion under certain instances, but I still don't see it being terribly necessary.

In other words, you have to consider what's being done and how it's being done, along with the rep range, when factoring this stuff in. High reps alone aren't evil, per se, but their judicious use is required. I just have a hard time understanding why somebody would be doing 4-5 exercises for the lower body, for 4-6 sets of maximal reps (be it 5 or 12), while not having enough calories to respond to that much training.

The focus isn't the volume, it's the weight increase on the heavy barbell work that is *most* important.

In regards to what I see others do:

I feel that most I've seen here overtrain. Even the stuff in the stickies leads to being too much, IMO. The whole overemphasis on quad-dominant and hip-dominant, vertical push and pull, leads to paralysis by analysis. These are issues to be concerned about over spans of time yes, but not to necessarily cram into each and every workout.

My preferred structure:

Full Body:

Lower body lift - either a squat or a deadlift
Upper body push - overhead, incline, flat bench
Upper body pull - barbell row or chinup
Assistance - stuff for posterior chain (back raise, glute-ham raise, pullthrus, etc), arms (2-4x10-20), and calves as needed.

Three big exercises, no more than 3-4 smaller ones.

Upper/Lower:

Upper Body:
Main exercise
Bodypart specific work (includes chest, back, and arms)

Example:

Push Press - 6x3 (main exercise, done heavy/explosive)
DB flye/press - 5x10 ("chest" )
Chinups - 5x5 ("back" )
Tricep pushdowns - 2x10 ("triceps" )

Four exercises. I might end up with 1-2 more assistance movements, and on weeks when I feel really frisky I'll do a second heavy barbell movement for sets of 5 as well. Even on weeks I consider "high volume" you'll see a total of seven movements, with only two of them being heavy barbell work.

Lower Body:
Main exercise
Bodypart specific work (includes glutes, quads, and hams)

Example:

Full Squats - 3x5
Leg Press - 3x10, usually a mix between single-leg and two-leg sets
Back Raise - 5x10
Calf stuff

Again, four exercises in total, and only one heavy barbell movement.

Yes, I gain on this. Every person I've worked with that's gone on similar routines has made progress, simply because you can only do so much work in a given session before you overtax the body and begin to compromise your ability to add weight to the bar. You don't need insane amounts of volume to send the hypertrophy signals. There's a sweet spot between too little and too much.

Most of what I see here errs on the side of "too much", especially when you take into account that most are chronic under-eaters. You can work with more volume if you're eating for it, but I can think of two women on this board that I know of that would be willing to do that. When you're under-eating, volume restriction becomes even more important because you don't have the nutrient resources to recover from the stress.

Adding weight to the bar is always, always, always the fundamental goal of strength training and is the basic factor that drives progression. If you're not adding weight to the bar in some regular interval, you're not improving and you won't significantly change how you look (unless you're drugged up, then it doesn't matter). This should take precedence over adding tons of sets and reps. This is also why strength routines will time and again change and develop the physiques of individuals, both male and female, moreso than any "bodybuilding" or "shaping" routine ever devised. When you add weight to the bar, you develop the muscle. That should be the emphasis.

Look at what "maintenance calories" really means: the body is a constant flux of building up and breaking down. The maintenance level is the amount of energy it takes to fuel the building up so that it balances out the breaking down. This is vastly oversimplified, of course, but sufficient for the conversation.

At any rate, maintenance assumes that you have exactly enough energy to support all the vital functions of the body. Since mass and energy conserve, energy output = energy input, so there's no net change to the system. Weight stays the same.

When you're eating under maintenance, you're providing less energy than is required to maintain that balance. The body needs that energy, so it gets it from the only choice it has: the existing tissues. In a perfect world, this is fat. In the real world, it's fat and muscle (another reason high protein is important while dieting. Aminos in the blood stream = less need to break the muscle down to get them. Muscle is how the body stores protein).

Muscle building is a very intensive process, energetically speaking. Muscle itself is a very metabolically-expensive tissue. The body, already not getting enough energy to support what it has, is not going to make that situation worse by adding more.

When you train to excess on too few calories, you're breaking down and have no capacity to build back up, as it were.

The biochemical signals that control hypertrophy work from two ways: atrophy,and hypertrophy. One signals the muscle to break down, one signals it to grow. Both seem responsive to intensity (ie, weight on the bar), and there seems to be a continuum of volume.

A lower volume will quash the atrophy signals, but signal very little if any hypertrophy; maintenance. As volume and indeed total "overload" to the muscle increases, the hypertrophy signals become more pronounced. But so does energy requirement.

Ideal situation for chronic energy deficiency? Do just enough to inhibit the atrophy signals. Usually a few sets of 3 reps on the big compounds is enough for this.

With 4-5 reps: you can use a heavier weight, and given equal sets, you've done less volume.

With 8 reps: you've done more volume and used less weight. You could have done nearly 2x5 for that one set, and used a heavier weight to boot.

Since intensity is the variable during dieting, you see how this can add up.

Also, I'd like to clarify that my distinction here isn't 1x5 vs. 1x8; that's hair splitting IMO, although the 5s do have the advantage of sitting at the sweet spot of load/volume.

What I'm bitching about is the idea that you've got to do a squat, a deadlift, two kinds of lunges, and whatever else, for 5x5 and 3x12 in order to get a decent workout, by attempting to hit quad-dom, hip-dom and all whatever else. It barely makes sense in calorie surplus, and is pretty baffling as calories get lower and lower.

I don't even know why I am questioning it... I guess the best thing to do while dieting is stick to the basics and go heavy. I just want to understand the science behind it in better detail.

It's what I said before...all you really want is to send just enough of a signal to blunt atrophy pathways.

In all honesty, you could get away with 3x3 on a squat and a deadlift, a bench and OHP, and a pullup + row in a given week just to maintain strength as calories get lower, so long as you keep weight on the bar. Maybe throw in a single backoff set of 8-10 reps, in order to preserve the MUs down in that range, but that's it.

I just can't see the utility in doing more; you're not going to build muscle, so why train like you're trying to?

After reading what Matt had to say, I decided to drop the surplus exercises right away and chop off 1 set of the non-wave 'compound' exercises. Instead of doing 3 work sets, I did just 2 of the front squat and military press. Felt much better!
Next cycle I will probably ditch the waves and go for a simpler set up. Either the one he mentioned , like 3x3 or 3x5 or a single wave like 8-6-4 w perhaps a ramp up to 12 reps to make it a tad metabolic.

Ah well, still have got 2 weeks to decide on this.

[dillytl]

CONGRATS on the PR's! It's funny how we can have some of our BEST workouts when we are expecting the WORST ones!!

Interesting stuff you posted by PMDL - a good read!

[Espi]

Thursday Feb 28
Triple Anti-KISS 3-2B
all weights in kilograms

DYNAMIC STRETCHING
The usual exercises. Did half of the push-ups for ‘real’ and the other half as girly pushups.

waves
A1 front squat w hang cleans
WU: hang cleans w 25-28-30-35kg and then when finished 35-30-28-25 kg
WU: 40x5
45x6 (0) – 47,5x6 (+2)
50x4 (0) – 52,5x4 (+4)
55 (6RM) x2 (-2) – 57,5 (4RM) x4 , tie with best performance.
Was almost afraid to topple over, as I was too relaxed now due to using too much of an old NO booster of ours (Endure). Fortunately, this didn’t happen. Really tried to get angry but failed.. was feeling to relaxed 


PREPARATORY WORK
B1 deadlift
65x5
75x7 (-1)
77,5x9 , tie with ‘normal’ RM for this weight which is 9reps, but far away from that amazing time I got 18 reps. Was mad at myself though for slipping on form by the end of the 2nd set and started pulling from the back exclusively. Felt that when finished.
Only 2 work sets today, just like for the other workout.

C1 supine rows
BW+5x7-7
Same here, also just 2 sets.

ASSISTANCE EXERCISES
None, bench station where I prefer to do these, was occupied.

METABOLIC WORK
None today

ODD EXERCISES
Excercises You've Never Tried Before #12
None today
CARDIO
Again a ramp up type of cardio, finishing at the ‘gasping’ threshold.
- 5 min WU @ 10-15% and 5,1-5,6km/hr
- 12 min @ 15% and 5,6 up to 7,0 km/hr
- 3min cooldown.
1,94 km (5,82km/hr) – 224kcal (672kcal/hr)
To my surprise I hit 163bpm and didn’t even get out of breath which is what I normally experience at around 160bpm. Cool

General: not as brilliant as the Tuesday workout, but still pretty good.

Training statistics
Volume: 9253 (-5088)
# of sets: 26 (-11) # of reps: 139 (-70) - avg reps/set : 5,3 (-0,3) - kg/rep : 66,6 (-2,2)

[Kirjava]

Nice workout! Not every workout can be the most brilliant but pretty good is still, well, pretty good!

[Espi]

Saturday March 1
Triple Anti-KISS 3-2C
all weights in kilograms

DYNAMIC STRETCHING
The usual 10 exercises

drop set
A1 weighted chins
BW+7x1– BW+6x1– BW+5x2 (+1) - BW+4x1 /
BW+3x2 (0) – BW+2x1 – BW+1x2 (+1)
Like the last time : first 4 sets before the DLs and then the second series of 3 sets after the first wave. First time in a long time I got 2 reps out of a 5kg extra wt.


waves

A2 deadlift
WU: 50x5 – WU 72,5x5

77,5x5 – 80x5
82,5 x4 – 85 x4 (-4)
87,5 (5RM)x3 – 90 (5RM) x6

After the first 3 sets I felt a bit dizzy, perhaps low BP? So went downstairs and got myself a cup of coffee + cocoa + sugar and restarted about 15min later. Then things went just fine.
The very last set was done with a belt and yay.. got approx. 2 more reps than I would have had w/o a belt. Might even have pushed for 7 but stopped at 6. New PR!

PREPATORY WORK
B1 decline db/bb press
(2x17; no RM yet)x12
(2x16; 13RM)x13 (0)
Just 2 sets. PR for first one. Tie for 2nd set.

B2 db row
17 (12RM)x12
16 (18RM) x11

Not bad at all. Only wondered about how exactly to place my legs here.

ASSISTANCE LIFTS
C1 pull throughs
31,3 (10RM)x13
28,8 (12RM) x17

No squat lunges today, just one of my favourite exercises. It seems the key factor here is to keep standing still. The pulling itself is not that hard..it’s staying in the same place.

SMALL STUFF
None now.

ODD EXERCISES
Not today.

CARDIO
Taking it 1 step further again. Starting at 5.2 km/hr and 11%.

- 4 min WU @ 11-15% and 5,2-5,6km/hr
- 13 min @ 15% and speedwalking ever faster from 5,6 to 7km/hr
- 3min cooldown.
1,97 km (5,91km/hr) – 236kcal (708kcal/hr) – 269m climbed (= avg 13,65%)

General: good WO, apart from the dizzy episode. Need to check out what it is. Can’t trust my monitor as it gives bp all over the place (very inconsistent) . Once again happy with the decision to drop the ‘fluffy’ exercises, so that I have more energy+time left for cardio.


Training statistics
Volume: 8890 (-2909)
# of sets: 27 (-7) # of reps: 188 (-84) - avg reps/set : 7,0 (-1,0) - kg/rep : 47,3 (+4,0)

[Espi]

Today is March 1, hence time for a monthly update.

30d weight etc. averages March1/Feb1
March 1, 2008
63,1kg = +0,2kg
26.9bf% = +0.2%
F: 17,0kg=+0,2kg = 0,8kg F to go to 62.3kg @ 26% = normal bf%!
LBM: 46.1kg=+0.0kg
P-ratio: 20% LBM gain re to 30d avg wt gain (P- ratio dropped even further, probably due to imbibing a bit too much Bailey's )

Feb 1, 2008
62.9kg = +0,7kg
26.7bf% = +0.4%
F: 16.8kg=+0.4kg = 0.6kg F to go to 62.3kg @ 26% = normal bf%!
LBM: 46.1kg=+0.3kg
P-ratio: 44% LBM gain re to 30d avg wt gain (significant drop!)


30 day average intake, maintenance & predicted expenditure
In February (for 30d also part of Jan) I was eating 2183 kcal, which was 1.8% more than my actual maintenance of 2139 kcal, which led to 146g of fat gain.
By using my own formulas, I had estimated to have a maintenance of 2251 kcal, so that’s 90kcal more than the actual maintenance. It’s noticeable that I’ve started to eat less than the last few months, since real mtn has already dropped, by over 200kcal, while estimated mtn has gone up.

In January I was eating 2398 kcal, which was 5.1% more than my actual maintenance of 2282 kcal, which led to 386g of fat gain.
By using my own formulas, I had estimated to have a maintenance of 2227 kcal, so that’s only 55kcal less than the actual maintenance.


30 day average macronutrient breakdown
February
carbs: 170g | 31% | 2.7g/kg BW
protein: 143g | 26% | 2.3g/kg BW = 3.1g/kg LBM
fat: 103g | 43% | 1.6g/kg BW
sat. fat : 38%
fiber: 29g

January
carbs: 196g | 33% | 3.1g/kg BW
protein: 142g | 24% | 2.3g/kg BW = 3.1g/kg LBM
fat: 116g | 43% | 1.8g/kg BW
sat. fat : 38%
fiber: 25g

Less carbs & fat, equal amounts of protein and more fiber.. yep, tightening up the diet.

……………………………………………………………………………… …………

30d avg activity
February 2008
Amt of rest-WO-days: 15r-15T
kg lifted : 5220kg/day
activity: 74min/day

January 2008
Amt of rest-WO-days: 16r-14T
kg lifted : 4873kg/day
activity: 75min/day

One more training day, more weight, equal activity level.


Comparison rest vs training days
February 2008
Calories eaten: rest 1485=65% of mtn | lifting 2980 =133% of mtn
Carbs: rest 91g | training 259g
Protein: rest 119g | training 170g
Fat : rest 82g | training 139g

January 2008
Calories eaten: rest 1871=83% of mtn | lifting 3001 =136% of mtn
Carbs: rest 170g | training 253g
Protein: rest 113g | training 174g
Fat : rest 91g | training 144g

Ate nearly 400kcal less on rest days, but nearly equal amounts on lifting days.
Macros on rest day changed considerably for carbs (80g less) but were also lower for fat (20g less)

This past month was a hybrid month with 18 days of eating at or over maintenance.. taking advantage of the last weeks with near liberal eating. Yet I’ve tightened up my eats already on the rest days.
Then another 11 days of cutting.. again, on rest days only and eating at or over mtn on lifting days.
The major bummer is how maintenance has dropped down by 200kcal already, down to the level of intake. Drat, double drat!

[Espi]

Yesterday I somehow was thinking that my progress wasn't all that good. But then I looked again this morning.. summing up the first 14 days, makes me realize there *is* progress
The weight after the number is the weight of THAT day.
The charachter H = high, L = low is the calorie intake of THAT day (hi/low).
The high days were between 2300-2600 kcal. The low days between 1100-1500 kcal.

14 days in = exactly 1 kg less for my 7d average. Not too shabby at all!

1L 64,2 63,7 8H 62,6 63,1
2L 63,7 63,7 9L 62,6 62,9
3L 63,2 63,7 10H 62,3 62,8
4H 63,0 63,7 11L 63,4 62,9
5L 63,5 63,7 12H 63,0 62,8
6H 62,8 63,5 13L 62,5 62,8
7L 62,9 63,3 14H 62,3 62,7

[Espi]

Phew... it literally took me YEARS to realize that there is unfortunately an adaptation of the body to lowered calorie intake, but that it can't adapt THAT much , unless you take calories down down down down down for too freaking long.

I just calculated my avg weekly intake is around 1700 kcal. Maintenance has dropped from 2300ish to 2000ish but with 1700kcal I still lose, albeit not as much as I'd have liked.

The real trick is to prevent yourself from tanking energy too much by going for higher calories frequently. Even the higher days won't prevent the slowdown, but at least I won't get ill or lose motivation this way. Back in November I contracted shingles just when I was doing great on a cut that may have gone on for too long w/o a break.

[dillytl]

Originally Posted by Espi

Yesterday I somehow was thinking that my progress wasn't all that good. But then I looked again this morning.. summing up the first 14 days, makes me realize there *is* progress
The weight after the number is the weight of THAT day.
The charachter H = high, L = low is the calorie intake of THAT day (hi/low).
The high days were between 2300-2600 kcal. The low days between 1100-1500 kcal.

14 days in = exactly 1 kg less for my 7d average. Not too shabby at all!

1L 64,2 63,7 8H 62,6 63,1
2L 63,7 63,7 9L 62,6 62,9
3L 63,2 63,7 10H 62,3 62,8
4H 63,0 63,7 11L 63,4 62,9
5L 63,5 63,7 12H 63,0 62,8
6H 62,8 63,5 13L 62,5 62,8
7L 62,9 63,3 14H 62,3 62,7

Lookin' good!!!! Not too shabby, indeed!!!

You are SOOOO detailed with your information! And you always seem to know exactly what's going on with your body - NEAT STUFF!!! I'm working on becoming more aware of myself, too!

[Espi]

When you've struggled for years to lose weight and actually gave up thinking it can never be done, despite tremendous amounts of training, you just have to decide one day that the only way to get things working is to actually track every single bite.

And then after having done it for long enough, it becomes so much fun to do , since you get feedback from the data and can pinpoint what exactly happens when & why. Starting a log was the next best thing because you also get feedback from more knowledgeable persons.

Still, it's a hard pill to swallow that bodies are so adaptive that you have to take calories reallllly low to get substantial weight loss. Just 300kcal is not enough, since your metabolism just drops along with this.. and unfortunately the zigzagging doesn't really help.
Then it's a matter of balancing output (lifting & cardio) with intake (diet) so that there's enough of a difference without getting ill or overtrained. This is where supplements can and do make a difference though. I'm not going back to ephedrine, but have started on Svelta STAC (resveratrol-based) , upped the fish oil and also am now using N-acetyl tyrosine (it increases energy levels, but much milder than ephedrine does) for the first time.