Go with the flow!

[L'ilJ]

Not to highjack your log any further, but it's an interesting discussion. One thing you said Espi got me thinking.

The body temperature difference is really freaky. Icy cold fingers when eating very low calories and feeling like a sauna on lifting/high calorie days!
By alternating between low calorie (a bit higher than PSMF and plenty of fats and enough carbs to not get the unpleasant sides of VLC) I can keep up the maintenance to the normal high levels that I have when near-constantly overeating/maintaining.

I started NROL a few weeks ago and have also been upping my calories to try to get my metabolism going (I have been an undereater for a long time). Anyway, around the same time I have been having disturbed sleep, waking up 2-3 times a night just boiling hot. I thought it had something to do with the fact that we switched to a heavier duvet for the winter, but usually NOTHING can wake me up. Could this be caused by this new workout regimen or is it just a coincidnence? Any thoughts?

[Espi]

Not a coincidence, it's your body recuperating from the heavy lifting and your metabolism is probably a lot higher now than it used to be

[L'ilJ]

But I really want to sleep! Plus, no weight lost yet. However, I'm not really worried about losing weight until I get my metabolism fired up again. I take 5HTP before bedtime and still I wake up several times. I guess it's the price I just pay for stoking those metabolic fires?

[galya]

My husband complains he can't sleep close to me because I give off too much heat (that much for marrying a hot girl). He calls me furnace girl. I usually wake up absolutely freezing around 5 a.m.

[Espi]

I'm much warmer the night after I lift, regardless of how much I eat, but overfeeding exaggarates it.
My bf is the same, he's now relatively cold as he lifts off and on. When he lifts, he's like a furnace as well.

[Espi]

Originally Posted by galya

You sure seem to know your body well. Makes me jealous almost
Do you lack intrinsic factor, why doesn't your B12 get used? Does it get used from a pill and not from food?

Never have been checked for deficiency, just twice. Once in hospital when it was extremely low. Considering how good I feel when I've had a lozenge, there must be a deficiency going on. The last time I was tested, it wasn't even that high (around 750), despite weekly doses of 5000 microgram. The methyl-B12 is better absorbed by the body regardless of the administration. This is a sublingual lozenge that you suck on and the B12 then gets absorbed through the saliva into the small bloodvessels of the cheek and gets directly into the bloodstream. It's very similar to receiving shots of B12.

[galya]

Cool. I remember bodybuilders injected them in my previous gym.

[Espi]

Indeed, B12 supplementation by injection is quite popular among bodybuilders. Less so among 'lay people', hence why sublingual tablets are so good. It works almost equally well and is less painful/intimidating.

Meanwhile an interesting abstract was posed on BR.com by Lyle. May explain why my metabolism hasn't dropped yet.

***
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 2007 Jan;66(1):49-57.
Short-term fasting-induced autonomic activation and changes in catecholamine levels are not mediated by changes in leptin levels in healthy humans.

* Chan JL,
* Mietus JE,
* Raciti PM,
* Goldberger AL,
* Mantzoros CS.

Division of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Metabolism, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA, USA.

Objective In animal models, the adipocyte-secreted hormone leptin increases energy expenditure by increasing sympathetic outflow but its role in humans remains to be elucidated.
We evaluated whether inducing hypoleptinaemia (with and without administration of leptin at replacement doses) for 3 days would influence catecholamine levels and sympathetic and parasympathetic activity in healthy humans.

Methods We studied six normal-weight subjects in the General Clinical Research Center (GCRC) under three conditions:
baseline fed state (control study) and
two 72-h fasting studies (to decrease leptin levels), with administration of either placebo or
replacement-dose recombinant methionyl human leptin (r-metHuLeptin)
in a randomized, double-blind fashion.
In each condition,
24-h urinary catecholamine levels,
heart rate and
heart rate variability (HRV),
a standard tool for assessing cardiac autonomic modulation, were measured.

Results Study parameters remained stable during the control condition and the baseline assessment of all three studies.
In response to 72-h fasting, which decreased serum leptin levels by 80%, 24-h urinary norepinephrine and dopamine levels and heart rate increased while cardiac vagal modulation decreased (all P < 0.05).

Replacement-dose r-metHuLeptin to keep leptin levels within the physiological range during fasting did not alter fasting-associated changes in heart rate, catecholamine levels or cardiac vagal tone.

Conclusions The findings of this controlled, interventional study indicate that changes in heart rate, catecholamine levels and cardiac vagal modulation associated with 72-h fasting are independent of regulation by leptin.
Thus, changes in leptin levels within the physiological range do not seem to play a role in regulating autonomic function during short-term starvation in healthy humans.

[Espi]

When being asked whether I was happy with the results so far.. I said: I'm quite satisfied, but frankly it's still more the process that interests me more plus the health. I don't care a damn whether I weigh X or Y kg. I want to have a certain bf% plus remain strong as hell or even get stronger than that! Right now I'm dropping water weight like crazy, got to stop that.. perhaps up carbs/protein a bit? Cut back on lifting volume?

Not sure.. it's the first time I'm aware of weighing about as much as when I was 21 (22 yrs ago). without being critically ill or cycling a gazillion K on end without food. So, it's all new to me.

There's a couple of weird things going on. The weirdest part is a raised metabolism while eating less, instead of seeing it drop down at the same rate. This must be entirely the result of switching back & forth between cutting down so much one day and then overfeeding by a bit and quite frequently overfeeding by a LOT the other day. Lyle just posted an abstract on what might be the reason, viz. increased catecholamine output.

But there are other weird things happening too, like bonking for the first time in I don't know how long.. I really nearly began shaking a couple of days ago when I waited a bit too long to get my postworkout protein meal in and then 'had' to wait for 2 more hours as I got a visitor and I normally don't eat in front of strangers. Kept it to protein as I knew that as soon as I'd give in to carbs I'd have eaten too much. It's either.. out of sight out of mind (so 0-500 kcal wouldn't be a big problem either if it's just 1 meal) or eat to heart's content (3000+ cal). Cutting down in meal frequency was the best thing I ever did!

[Espi]

Monday Jan 8
TRAINING cycle 6 – day 12
Going for approx. 8RM, counting to 20 reps

chins
BW+4kg : 3x1 in 15s (weight tucked in with a belt)

1-leg press
(BW+21,5kg) x 13

goblet squat
30kg x10

A Smith squat
42,5kgx8
Counting to 20 from here
67,5kg x5
Work set: 62,5kg x7-8

In slow SS with B DL
70kg x 7
82,5kg x 4
95kgx1
Work set: 85kg x 5-5 (stopped here)

supine (overhand) row
BW x 9

incline db press
(14kg x2) x 11

C Yates supine bb row
47,5kgx8
Counting to 20 from here
57,5kg x 5
Work set: 52,5 kg x 8-7

In slow SS with
D bb press
35kg x8
Counting to 20 (19) from here
45kg x 4
Work set: 40kg x 8-7

Swiss ball leg curl
BW x 13

Cardio
Treadmill interval cardio :
5 min WU to 5km/hr @ 15%,
5 min: 3 sprints @ 12 km/hr
2 min cooldown
111kcal – 666 kcal/hr (-77) (-66kcal/hr)
0,91km – 5,46 km/hr (-0,42)


Comment
Quads : 30kg front squat are heavy enough to do several sets with them and feel it!
Posterior chain : somehow I am not seeing me surpass my pre-Xmas PR.. 95 kg felt way too hard.
Chest: still bothered by unprecedented DOMS in triceps, probably from the weighted chins as bench pressing doesn’t feel that hard.
Back Now scaling back and doing it with 4 kg dumbbell. Still was hard, but not like 6kg.
Cardio: going much easier here
General: Felt pooped from the start, for lack of sleep and carbs. Yet, the carbup will only happen in 2 more days. Ditched quite a few exercises, like shoulders and abs as well as the Mensendieck stuff.

Training statistics
Rep index: 164 reps/hr (60min)
Volume: 7879kg
Total gym time: 75 mins.
# of sets: 25 - # of reps 164 - avg reps/set : 6,6 - kg/rep 48,0 kg

[sona]

Originally Posted by Espi

When being asked whether I was happy with the results so far.. I said: I'm quite satisfied, but frankly it's still more the process that interests me more plus the health. I don't care a damn whether I weigh X or Y kg. I want to have a certain bf% plus remain strong as hell or even get stronger than that! Right now I'm dropping water weight like crazy, got to stop that.. perhaps up carbs/protein a bit? Cut back on lifting volume?

Not sure.. it's the first time I'm aware of weighing about as much as when I was 21 (22 yrs ago). without being critically ill or cycling a gazillion K on end without food. So, it's all new to me.

There's a couple of weird things going on. The weirdest part is a raised metabolism while eating less, instead of seeing it drop down at the same rate. This must be entirely the result of switching back & forth between cutting down so much one day and then overfeeding by a bit and quite frequently overfeeding by a LOT the other day. Lyle just posted an abstract on what might be the reason, viz. increased catecholamine output.

But there are other weird things happening too, like bonking for the first time in I don't know how long.. I really nearly began shaking a couple of days ago when I waited a bit too long to get my postworkout protein meal in and then 'had' to wait for 2 more hours as I got a visitor and I normally don't eat in front of strangers. Kept it to protein as I knew that as soon as I'd give in to carbs I'd have eaten too much. It's either.. out of sight out of mind (so 0-500 kcal wouldn't be a big problem either if it's just 1 meal) or eat to heart's content (3000+ cal). Cutting down in meal frequency was the best thing I ever did!

Very interesting stuff, Espi!

[Espi]

Am excited about new supplement Fortega for concentration! Very good focus, no jitters! Apart from the coffee, I only ate the 1st meal at 6pm. Only a bit cold until I brought away parcels and did errands. When I came home I was feeling warm again soon. Even hot after the first meal! Just keep moving!

Diet-wise I was at about the lowest sustainable calorie intake at this bf% without risking LBM =maintenance minus 31 kcal / fat lb = 68 kcal/kg F = 1200kcal deficit.

I'll be training soon, but not sure how it will go. Only slept 6 hrs tonight as we not only went to bed late, but then discovered we have a leak in the roof, right above our bed so that had to be pushed into the far corner to get out of the way of the drops.. that continued torturing us at night (the water drop torture), but managed to block it out with ear plugs.

[galya]

That leak must be a bummer, take care of it because the rain won't stop soon around there, right?
Loved the study!
I might pick your brain later about intermittent fasting! What's in the supplement?

[UConnJulie]

UGH ... house maintenance issues and car issues are so stressful! Hope you get the leak fixed easily and inexpensively!!

[Espi]

Which study? Ah, the one about raised catecholamine output.
Yes, intermittent fasting is truly fascinating stuff, esp. since it comes so naturally to me. I have less problems eating very little in only 2 meals a day thn I have eating 5-6 meals a day, which takes tons of time and always made me overeat. OTOH, I also don't have a problem eating over 4000 kcal once I start either.

It's totally weird to be finally seeing studies that you can even become healthier by fasting! Like reduced inflammation, which has my profound interest since my IgE levels are highish, resulting in allergy responses to all kinds of food that I'm not technically allergic to. Very frustrating!
So.. yesterday I just started eating at 6 pm except for the calorific coffee in the morning. And felt great!

The first time I read about IF was on Bodyrecomposition.com upon which I checked Michael Eades' blog at www.proteinpower.com and read his article (somewhere in September). What I'm doing is not IF, but comes close. I definitely don't want to skip my late night meal(s) as when I do that, I can't sleep at all. Even now the difference can be staggering , like 6 hrs after a low day and 9 hrs after a high kcal day.

On minimum calorie intake: apparently there's a study that showed that the minimum amt of calories you can eat without losing LBM is
maintenance minus (31/0,454 * kg of fat on the body) . In my tables I've got another column for that one.
For me: 2248 - (18,3 x 31/0,454 = 1250) = 998 kcal.

I'll try this for a while as with just 2 meals it's quite feasible. Won't do a PSMF as the fats are vital for feeling OK and I don't see the reason whyI should stuff my face with protein only if my body needs fats and carbs to keep sane and nitrogen balance is achieved at only 0.8 g/kg BW. That's 52 grams protein for me. I'm 100% certain I didn't even hit that amount on average for many years! Muscles were just fine!

The advantage is that I can then take intake up to over my predicted expenditure on the training days.. as I still feel hungry at 2500 kcal and could easily have eaten 3000 kcal!

The leak is nasty.. we've called the rental company and they promised to fix it. They'll probably have lots of complaints.

[Espi]

Wednesday Jan 10
TRAINING cycle 6 – day 14
Going for approx. 7-8RM, counting to 20 reps

step ups
(BW+7kg) x 13

Bulgarian squat lunges
(BW+8kg) x 8

chins
BW+5kg : 2x1 in 10s (weight tucked in with a belt)
BW x 2 (easy, at the end of the WO)

goblet squat
30kg x11

A Smith squat
45kgx8
Counting to 20 from here
70kg x5
Work set: 65kg x9-6

In slow SS with B DL
72,5kg x 5
85kg x 3
97,5kgx1
Work set: 87,5kg x 4-4 (stopped here)

supine (overhand) row
BW x 9

incline db press
(15kg x2) x 9

C Yates supine bb row
50kgx8
Counting to 20 from here
60kg x 5
Work set: 55 kg x 8-7

In slow SS with
D bb press
37,5kg x8
47,5kg x 3
Work set: 42,5kg x 6-6

Cardio
Treadmill interval cardio :
4 min WU 4,6 to 5km/hr @ 15%,
6 min: 3 30s sprints @ 12 km/hr w 90s cooldown
3 min speedwalking 5-6 km/hr
2 min cooldown
184kcal – 736 kcal/hr (+70)
1,43km – 5,72 km/hr (+0,26)

Comment
Quads : Smith squats were easy today!
Posterior chain : DLs still hard as hell
Chest: huge progress compared to a couple of days ago.. 47,5kg x 3 went up easy compared to 47,5kg x 2 (and fail to get it up again)
Back a tough BW+5kg chin and 2 easy-peasy BW reps . BB rows going just fine..
Small stuff : obligatory biceps/shoulder stuff.. it’s getting old now. Didn’t put my heart into the balance work either.
Cardio: going much easier here
General: feeling much better than 2 days before, despite the extremely low calorie intake the day before plus the lack of sleep. It definitely helps to have had most calories in the evening.

Training statistics
Rep index: 160 reps/hr (65min)
Volume: 9015kg
Total gym time: 80 mins.
# of sets: 27 - # of reps 173 - avg reps/set : 6,4 - kg/rep 52,1 kg