Mahler the Racist

[Mahler]

nyguy,
If you are speaking from experience and are telling of those personal experiences truthfully, you should not fear speaking your mind.

I am reminded of a famous quote by Martin Luther King, Jr. that we should not judge people by the color of their skin, but on the content of their character. The rude people you encountered were not born rude, nor did they become rude because they were black, but because they were people of poor character.

Mahler

[Chris Correia]

Originally posted by Mahler:
nyguy,
If you are speaking from experience and are telling of those personal experiences truthfully, you should not fear speaking your mind.

I am reminded of a famous quote by Martin Luther King, Jr. that we should not judge people by the color of their skin, but on the content of their character. The rude people you encountered were not born rude, nor did they become rude because they were black, but because they were people of poor character.

Mahler

Well . . . or because they were taught or learned to become so. Children and youth learn what they are taught or see.

[JaW]

Im 17 white, i live in a town were its mostly black people, i just moved from a town of all whites..

Thug DOES not mean black
Gangsta does not mean black
End of story. Deal with it.

[JaW]

Im 17 white, i live in a town were its mostly black people, i just moved from a town of all whites..

Thug DOES not mean black
Gangsta does not mean black
End of story. Deal with it.

[Chris Correia]

Originally posted by JaW:
Im 17 white, i live in a town were its mostly black people, i just moved from a town of all whites..

Thug DOES not mean black
Gangsta does not mean black
End of story. Deal with it.

JaW: Thanks for joining in. Now, forgive me for being stupid: I'm not quite sure what is your point, particulary since you declare end of story and deal with it. What is the story and who should deal with it?

Many people -- both black and white -- have stated that thug or gangsta can be taken to indicate black. Can you explain your experience or your thoughts a bit more? I'd like to hear them.

[nyguy]

Mahler, it is from experience. Unfortunally I get to see how a lot of people live and sometimes I see the worst on them. Tomorrow I will be upstate taking care of a section 8 building. The sup. is a very cool guy and he takes me around. A lady on one of the apts have aids and a 3 year old daughter (she doesn't have HIV) and the sup. is the godfather of the kid and they have an arrangement that he will take the kid in when she dies. Last month I let her have it after hearing her cursing like crazy in front of the little girl. Honestly, she can't go 10 words without cursing so I told her "You know you won't be here to raise your daughter for too long, is that the kind of memories you want her to have from you?" Was I insensitive? Well, finally the sup. told her that for a long time he felt the same way but never had the courage to bring it up.

My wife is works as a cop in the Harlem but that's another thread.

[raymond3]

nyguy, Im not from harlem (Im from staten island and the bronx), but my wife is from washington heights (151st and broadway)..which is right by harlem..I was just up there visiting last month. I went by fredrick douglas blvd and adam clayton powell...sure your wife knows those areas [img]smile.gif[/img]

I havent lived in NY in probably 15 years now..but I can relate to some of what you are saying..dont cha just love when people piss in the elevators, its great

[FishrCutB8]

Originally posted by Howard_Rourke:
Perhaps he should have said puck instead of ball, then we would have had this image of a thug instead.



No anit-black racism in that and Bertuzzi is undoubtedly a thug. I'm serious about this. Had Mahler used puck, everyone would have thought of that image. It's because he used ball and thug together that we thought this.



Both thugs. One white/puck. One black/ball. The idea of race is relative to your own mind and life experiences. It's like word association. Thug + ball = black. Thug + puck = white.

el Howie

No good! We all know Mahler's a racist! He would have been talking about Donnie...

[FishrCutB8]

...unless you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_Mahler, which has our man portrayed more as vitim of his times...


With Mahler thus to some extent still critically embattled, a situation has developed in which his detractors attempt to minimise his legacy, and his admirers tend to respond by exaggerating it. A cautious middle ground might be pursued by noting that a combination of factors (World War I, economic depression, rising Austro-German anti-Semitism, and World War II) worked greatly to inhibit performance and understanding of Mahler's music after 1911, and undoubtedly made his posthumous influence less than it could have been. As a result, it was principally among composers who had known Mahler or been part of his circle that his influence was first felt – even if such personal relationships often brought extra-musical factors into play.

[JNero]

Hello, I am jrgens from MH.

First I want to say that this was a much better discussion than that on the MH board, and I really enjoyed reading it.

Some comments of mine:

I never thought that there was any negative racial connotation in the word "thug" itself, but I thought it was racist because he said that those thugs were worse than the spoiled celebs. I just thought that he was talking about black people by saying thug, and by only picking out the black athletes and saying something negative about them, it originally came off a racial to me.

It's nice to see that there are at least some people here who understand where I'm coming from. I grew up listening to rap music, and when you got artists like Tupac, Trick Daddy, and Bone THUGS-n-Harmony all talking about thug life, you sort of get the idea that they are in no way referring to the traditional definition. These artists claim to be thugs on every CD they make, which is why I don't think the word thug itself is negative (even though the true definition of it is), I just think it is a lifestyle and is similar to gangsta (as some others here have stated). I have never heard any white person claim to be or refer to themselves as a thug, unless the definition they were using was the rap one and they were trying to be gangsta, and then they were using the word in a positive way. So my everyday experience with the word is with this definition, and I have even heard certain athletes like Allen Iverson and Randy Moss be refered to as thugs (again, not as the traditional definition) so when Mahler stated something bad about thugs who can handle a ball, these were the athletes I thought he was referring to. I have never heard of any white athletes being called thugs (with either definition), so it was not my immediate response to include them in with who I thought Mahler was talking about.

I do not expect all of society to accept this definition as the common one now, which is why I appologized for the misunderstanding. I just had an initial reaction to the sentence and figured I'd post it. I didn't think it'd cause such a discussion (especially over here since the one on MH sort of fizzled quickly).

Great discussion over here though, I should probably start reading this board more often (of course, I can't post, since my identity has now been revealed).

[JaW]

Originally posted by Chris Correia:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JaW:
Im 17 white, i live in a town were its mostly black people, i just moved from a town of all whites..

Thug DOES not mean black
Gangsta does not mean black
End of story. Deal with it.

JaW: Thanks for joining in. Now, forgive me for being stupid: I'm not quite sure what is your point, particulary since you declare end of story and deal with it. What is the story and who should deal with it?

Many people -- both black and white -- have stated that thug or gangsta can be taken to indicate black. Can you explain your experience or your thoughts a bit more? I'd like to hear them. [/quote]Sorry, I should of been more clear anyone that opposes mahler, deal with the fact that your wrong, end of story... lol

[Mahler]

[img]smile.gif[/img]

I am not always right.
Everything I write is not golden.
I am just very passionate about my opinions and ideas.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Mahler

[Chris Correia]

Originally posted by JNero:


Great discussion over here though, I should probably start reading this board more often (of course, I can't post, since my identity has now been revealed).

Glad you found your way over here. This forum is definitely a much better place to discuss whatever topic -- fitness or otherwise -- than the MH board. However, I am perplexed: you can't post because your identity has been revealed? Who are you, man, superman or someone?

My own identity is mild-mannered Chris Correia, but when night falls and villians roam the streets, then I become . . . . ooops, I can't reveal THAT!

[Canadian_Bacon]

interesting test for those who think have have absolutely no selective 'race' tendencies:

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implici.../race/race.xml

[Deserve]

Thanks for the link I read about this in Blink and was wanting to look it up. Very interesting stuff.

[JNero]

Originally posted by Chris Correia:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JNero:


Great discussion over here though, I should probably start reading this board more often (of course, I can't post, since my identity has now been revealed).

Glad you found your way over here. This forum is definitely a much better place to discuss whatever topic -- fitness or otherwise -- than the MH board. However, I am perplexed: you can't post because your identity has been revealed? Who are you, man, superman or someone?

My own identity is mild-mannered Chris Correia, but when night falls and villians roam the streets, then I become . . . . ooops, I can't reveal THAT! [/quote]Nah, I was joking about the whole identity thing. Honestly though, I just prefer the MH board because I know the posters over there and there seem to be more who are college-age like myself. I do like to read this board, since it has good information, but I don't care to get involved in another community. I already spend enough time online as it is .

[raymond3]

Originally posted by Canadian_Bacon:
interesting test for those who think have have absolutely no selective 'race' tendencies:

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implici.../race/race.xml

Hmmm, I just did the first link here at work (harvard) and unless Im doing something wrong, its showing that bad/evil is associated with black people...not a nice link at all..especially to be pulling up at my job

[Jean-Paul]

I didn't find it to be racist at all... It is a word association test to see if you have a racial bias. Did you go all the way through it?