Eat before the morning workout? - JP Fitness Forums

Hefty · 07-03-2005, 08:26 PM

Hello all,

I am finally starting to get used to the morning workouts. BUT the eating is a problem. I get up at 5:00am and eat. Then i sit and wait for 45 mins before doing the workout. Its boring stuff and makes me nervous.

So I figured I will just get up, drink water and workout before breakfast. It feels great! Is it a good idea? I figured it would aid more in Fat loss anyway since your workin on an empty stomach..

Cheers..

Kevin T. · 07-03-2005, 08:40 PM

Don't train on an empty stomach. Eat something. My advice would be to eat a small snack and some of a protein shake before you lift. Then, you should be having your protein drink during the workout and then finish it after you're done. Then, have your breakfast.

TrainingGirl · 07-03-2005, 09:03 PM

Are you talking about lifting weights or cardio on an empty stomach? What's boring...the food?

gobbla · 07-03-2005, 09:48 PM

would you drive your car with no fuel in the tank?

RipStone · 07-03-2005, 09:57 PM

This thread might help...

http://forums.jpfitness.com/noncgi/u.../t/001499.html

It is essential you eat before lifting, especially in the morning. If you dont eat, you wont have energy to workout, which means you wont be able to lift as intesnely, which means your gains will suffer. Also, you will wind up burning muscle cus when you wake up your body is in a catobolic(muscle burning state)....exerercise is also catoboic. The two together is a recipie for diaster. Eat my friend.

von_Hayes · 07-03-2005, 10:29 PM

listen to ripstone, exercise of any kind in the morning on an empty stomach will lead to muscle loss.

Hefty · 07-03-2005, 10:52 PM

Its for lifting in the morning. Ok, its just that I felt better working out on nothing to be honest.

Got it, eat before workout. So Ill wake up and have a protein shake. How does this look?

1) Drink half the Protein Shake
2) Wait 10 Minutes: Warm up (10 Mins)
3) Stretch (10 Mins)
4) Lift (60 Mins)
5) Finish the Shake

Kevin T. · 07-03-2005, 11:05 PM

I'd highly suggest having a small snack. Maybe just an apple or one of JB and Johnka snack bars or something along those lines in addition to your shake. It doesn't have to be big.

What I do is this:
-Wake Up
-Eat and apple and protein shake
-Dynamic Warm-up
-Lift-When I lift i make my own homebrew of surge, as suggested by John Berardi-1.5 scoops of gatorade, 1 scoop of whey and 32 oz water. I drink that during the workout and finish it afterwards. I also drink plain water during this time because i like it.
-About an half an hour to an hour later i'll have an omelette with 1 egg, 4 egg white, veggies (broccoli, onions, and peppers, etc.) and cheese.

Just get something in your system to get out of the catabolic state. Otherwise, your just basically eating your own muscles.

Faraz421 · 07-04-2005, 12:32 AM

What about with cardio, if I wake in the morning, take 10 min to do whatever, take a 200mg caffiene pill, then in 20 min go for a 30 min run (3.3miles), and then have food when i come back, is that alright?
>>>so that fat is mobilized and used for energy/fuel

Sorry to intrude on the thread.

GqArtguy · 07-04-2005, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faraz421:
What about with cardio, if I wake in the morning, take 10 min to do whatever, take a 200mg caffiene pill, then in 20 min go for a 30 min run (3.3miles), and then have food when i come back, is that alright?
>>>so that fat is mobilized and used for energy/fuel

Sorry to intrude on the thread.

Shugart: Okay, a person is trying to lose fat. Should he do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach?

Alessi: Yes, if you have the luxury of time choice, then early morning, empty stomach training with caffeine and Power Drive works best. If a bodybuilder is looking to drop a weight class, then PM is better as they can afford to shed both muscle and fat. Separate cardio sessions from weights work best when sport specific energy pathways are being developed, for example, vertical jump.

Staley: Hmmm, I'm starving, half-asleep, my joints feel like they have sand in them....um, no, not a good time for cardio!

Look, seriously, when you do it is secondary to doing it in the first place, right? Also, isn't that idea predicated on the theory that if your glycogen supplies are low from an overnight fast that your body is more likely to go after stored bodyfat for fuel? Well, the only way your glycogen will be low enough to accomplish that would be if you're low or no carbing. And if you're low or no carbing, then your glycogen is always
low, and you can do your cardio later in the day when you feel at least half alive!

My good friend Alwyn Cosgrove has a great argument for why morning cardio on an empty stomach is a faulty idea: everyone always extols the value of eating every three hours to prevent catabolism; so if this is true, why would you do hard exercise after an eight hour fast? I mean, it's either one way or the other, right?

Thibaudeau: That’s hard to say. I don’t really like the term empty stomach. It would be more appropriate to say "on an empty gas tank" (as in "depleted glycogen state"). Like Charles said, the logic for morning cardio is that if you have no glycogen available to produce energy, you'll readily dip into your fat stores to fuel your body. However, one thing that many people forget is that this could also increase the rate of protein breakdown (catabolism). Furthermore, I've not seen any evidence that doing aerobic work first thing in the morning leads to a greater proportion of fat being used to produce energy.

Dr. Lowery: Truthfully, I do cardio in the morning. A thinner, ectomorphic guy looking to harden up shouldn't though. He'd be better served by time under the weights while drinking protein and carbs throughout. I tend to favor fasted treadmill work because I've seen firsthand how much more dramatic fat oxidation can be in this state during lab experiences.

The liver is mostly depleted of stored carbohydrate (glycogen reserves approximate just 90g which keeps us alive at night), there's a natural diurnal release of GH upon rising, and even cortisol is higher upon waking. This latter fact is dangerous for muscle loss but actually facilitates lipolysis (fat breakdown). Admittedly, I've been experimenting with about five grams of glutamine and even about ten grams of protein in this otherwise "fasted" pre-breakfast state. I do fear cortisol and hope to counteract any unnecessary catabolism without interfering with lipolysis.

Source

Faraz421 · 07-04-2005, 02:01 AM

Gq, I swear, you never cease to amaze me with a wealth of pertinent knowledge/references.
!

ivey · 07-04-2005, 02:47 AM

Here's the thing... do you think that bowl of oatmeal and whatever has been broken down and utilized as fuel by the time you get to your run or workout or whatever? No. Is it there afterward to help prevent catabolism, or whatever you guys are so afraid of? Yeah. Do I sound like Donald Rumsfeld asking and answering his own questions? Of course I do.

RipStone · 07-04-2005, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dragns:
Here's the thing... do you think that bowl of oatmeal and whatever has been broken down and utilized as fuel by the time you get to your run or workout or whatever? No. Is it there afterward to help prevent catabolism, or whatever you guys are so afraid of? Yeah. Do I sound like Donald Rumsfeld asking and answering his own questions? Of course I do.

I am not 100% sure on the actual science of this, but I do know when you wake up in the morning it is the only time of day that the GI of a food really matters since is measured on an epmty stomach. Therefore, if you have a bowl of oats with eggs(maybe 40 GI) and if you wait an hour after you finish this meal to lift(like its recommened you do) then the food should be digesting and giving you energy due to the fact that you do have an empty stomach.

GqArtguy · 07-04-2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

I am not 100% sure on the actual science of this, but I do know when you wake up in the morning it is the only time of day that the GI of a food really matters since is measured on an epmty stomach.

High GI/low GI with a matched carb intake makes little difference in bodyweight (loss or gain) because the body only sees glucose, nothing else. Sure there is a slight difference in ultimate speed of arrival, but it does not seem to make a big difference, becuase in a trained person, the body is much smarter than that. In low GI diet, you tend to eat less, which is good if you are dieting. But matching them calorie for calorie shows no difference.

In my opinion, I would drink something beforehand (about an hour) and sip on something during the exercise. If I were to do long cardio, Id prolly run a mile, then take a gulp, repeat. If I couldnt eat something in advance, then I would definately be sipping something during and afterwards. But, Im with Staley on this, it just to do this. Besides, this whole depleted state thing is bunk. Cressey says

"A truly glycogen-depleted state is hard to come by; you really don't hit rock bottom with one overnight fast."

Bottom line: if you are training first thing in the morning, eat something, preferably (but not essentially) quick digesting, before training. Eat something after training, and move on

von_Hayes · 07-04-2005, 02:19 PM

I disagree with cardio in the morning. Fat is a much more energy efficient energy source for survival becaue it is not energy costly. Fat also oxidizes slower and is more energy dense. therefore, muscle will be oxidized before fat when in starvation, such as waking in the morning.

RipStone · 07-04-2005, 03:34 PM

GQ- fair enough. I guess we are all saying the same thing here and that is the bottom line is that you have to eat something before and youn have to eat something after. Depending on what you ear before, it might change what you eat during or after though. Whatever works for the individual.

Faraz421 · 07-04-2005, 03:52 PM

damn, guess i should stop emtpy stomach cardio with caffeine....you think 23g protien shake is good for premorning cardio, while keeping with the caffiene?

RipStone · 07-04-2005, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Faraz421:
damn, guess i should stop emtpy stomach cardio with caffeine....you think 23g protien shake is good for premorning cardio, while keeping with the caffiene?

Let me ask you, are you getting good results the way you are doing things right now or do you believe you could get better results? I think it would be a good idea to at least try having a protein shake or some BCAAs before cardio(with the caffiene too) and see how your results are.