effect of low/high rep training on muscle

[igunick]

Hi guys,
I'd like to know what the difference is on your muscles when doing low rep training or high rep training. My cousin says that low rep training makes your muscles shorter and he's pretty convinced about it. Anyway since he plays a lots of sports and works out too, I suppose he can get advice from a lot of people. Just wanted to here how you guys think about this

[Kevin T.]

I'm not so sure how the difference in reps affects the actual muscle itself but I'm pretty sure that you know about the different rep set ups and what they do. Lower reps are often better for strength, middle reps for a hypertrophy/strength combo, higher reps for hypertrophy, then all the other specifics for even more specific goals. I don't believe that weight training alone makes your muscles shorter. I believe that stretching will make your muscles longer. I think that what you're asking about, right?

If i'm wrong, please clarify so i can try and help [img]smile.gif[/img]

[igunick]

just want to know if my cousin is right [img]smile.gif[/img]
Also, what's the benefit of short/long muscles?? effect over long period?

[Kevin T.]

Actually, i don't really know what you're referring to as short and long muscles, as each muscle is at one point or another in a short and long stage, so to speak. In every movement, there is an agonist and antagonist muscle. The agonist being the contracted muscle and the antagonist being the muscle that is lengthing to allow the agonist to contract.

Maybe you're referring to different types of muscle. For example, the muscles a bodybuilder has vs the muscle athletes have. Body builders, as you probably know, have big bulky muscles. Athletes usually aren't as big and don't have those bulky muscles. Lean muscle is optimal for most athletes athletes. That's why most athletes don't look big, but are wicked strong.

I dont know if there is a benefit for either type of muscle and if there is, i dont know what it is.

Hope that was somewhat helpful [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Kevin T.]

In your cousin's case, with him being an athlete, I would assume that he stays away from low rep training in fear of it giving him shorter muscles? If thats the case, it is probably sports oriented, as long, lean muscles are more functional in most athletes. Am I right?

[ivey]

Okay.... i'm not getting how anyone thinks that lifting weights is going to make your muscles shorter, longer, or otherwise? Your muscles have origin and insertion point attachments to the bone. Do these move? Do they detach and reattach in a shorter position? Of course not.

[Simon.]

Over time weight training will shorten the muscle's 'relaxed' state and will reduce flexibility. If you don't stretch, as your muscle gets shortened it will put pressure on the bone/joint/don't remember what exactly and will eventually cause problems. Your friend however is incorrect, because unless he's into martial ars where your muscles are dynamically stretched in almost every movement, if he doesn't stretch after his training sessions his muscles will shorten just as yours would have if you didn't.

[bryanc]

No offense guys, but you all need to pick up some basic muscle physiology...

Every "muscle" (or muscle-tendon unit) is composed of tendon tissue, then muscle tissue, then tendon tissue (roughly, and excluding all the neural and circulatory bits, since they don't really contribute to structural shape). The amount of muscle in terms of length (not volume) compared to the amount of tendon on either end, in terms of length, is determined genetically. Muscle tissue does not grow longitudinally. Nor does it shrink longitudinally--regardless of whether you stretch or not.

Flexibility is primarily an issue of tendon stretch properties. Tendon is a non-contractile, but elastic tissue, and remodels according to stress, or lack thereof. Therefore, it is possible to develop flexibility deficits provided one isn't ever placing the tendon under stretch. However, the overall length of the muscle-tendon unit can only get so small, since the length of your bones is about as short as its going to get--and it's unlikely you would actually _see_ a difference in muscle-tendon length.

"Bulky" muscle and "lean" muscle are the same thing. I don't know what you're referring to when you're talking about them as though they're different things.

In short, your cousin is spouting off.

[Simon.]

bryanc I remember seeing an article on tmag mentioning the importance of stretching and explaining it. Again, I don't know much about the science behind this but the article stated that a muscle that doesn't get stretched regularly, especially if combined with weight training to increase it's size, will 'tighten up' applying pressure to the bone. I would look it up but it'll take a while...
And going purely by commmon sense - if you don't stretch, you get tight. What igunick's friend said is not true because any type of training without stretches will cause this problem.

[igunick]

Originally posted by Simon.:
unless he's into martial ars where your muscles are dynamically stretched in almost every movement

would weight training with low weights and high reps not have kind of the same effect??
or am I completly lost here?

btw, sorry for the late response

[Physicsmazz]

Heavy weights (approx. 90% of 1rm) leads to more myofibrillar hypertrophy, which leads to more force production. Lighter weights with more reps leads to sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is more sarcoplasm in the muscle, big muscle...but not all strength gains, think bodybuilders.

[kelly]

What I've heard is that doing low reps w/ heavier weight will give you bulkier muscles and increase strength, and that doing high reps w/ lighter weights will tone you more than bulk you and increase endurance. Hope this helps.

[Saircon]

Interesting topic,

I would like to add a few things. Since the difference between low rep and high rep training explained, my addition will be about the flexibility part of the conversation.

"Stretching" is first of all not an appropriate term. If you stretch something that is elastic, it will shrink back, like a rubber band. It should be called "flexibility". The purpose of flexibility training, should not actually be lengthening the muscle, or making it look leaner. These terms are not scientific.The purpose should be "to re-store te optimum range of motion to the related joint/s". So, if a body builder, who looks realy bulky and muscular etc has a correct muscle balance and can do all the necessary exercises and activities of daily living with no pain and optimum range of motion, he/she does not need to regularly stretch every single muscle after workout. However, if an athlete, who looks very lean and flexible, has a tiny muscle imbalance between hip flexors and hip extensors, due to high load and intensity can have a major wear/tear in his/her hamstrings due to repetetive stress in the long run (a few years).

With that said, flexibility training should be activity specific. Regularly stretching every single muscle doesn't work because we could be stretching the muscles that actually lengthened. There was a study among track-field runners, unfortunatelly I forgot the source. But they measured the hamstring length of every single runner in the team, and after a hamstring stretch, they all gained a few inch of length. Then, they all walked around for about 30 seconds or so, and they re-measured again, hamstrings were back to their original length. So, why do we need to stretch every single muscle, if they are not going to be lengthened permanenetly?

Muscles only count 40% of the motion around a joint. The rest, is the soft tissues that actually you don't wanna mess with. So, instead of stretching for esthetic purposes, flexibility should be performed for optimum joint function, including a comprehensive postural and musculo-skeletal assessment. If length/tension relationship around every joint is looking good, and posture is perfect, I don't think static-passive stretches are necessary.

[igunick]

oh man, this has become such a confusing thread

[ReadyDad]

Originally posted by bryanc:
No offense guys, but you all need to pick up some basic muscle physiology...

That's a great idea. What sources do you recommend?

[JMR]

Your cousin is wrong... End of story.

[igunick]

Originally posted by JMR:
Your cousin is wrong... End of story.

yes, I need that now just want to know more

[raymond3]

Originally posted by kelly:
What I've heard is that doing low reps w/ heavier weight will give you bulkier muscles and increase strength, and that doing high reps w/ lighter weights will tone you more than bulk you and increase endurance. Hope this helps.

I believe this is wrong.

[m1ke101]

i'm also interested to know what the difference is between high rep/low rep training.