Doing right Amounts of Sets and Reps

[siccmadeloc]

I've had this troubling me for a long time, so I tried experimenting with Light Weights and Lots of reps, or Heavy Weights with Little amount of Reps, and I came to a plan that I could work with, what I have been doing is this, Lets say I start out with 20 pounds for example, I start doing 8 reps until im ready for 10, then I do ten Reps of 20 pounds until im ready for 12 reps, once im ready for more than 12 Reps, I add weight and start at 8 again, and repeat the process untill I come to a point where I feel I need to stay at. do you guys think this is a good way of working out?

[Rotting Pumpkin]

This is how I do it when I'm doing a three set routine:

First, I establish a weight that I can lift for 8 reps over 3 sets. During the first two sets, I only lift the weight 8 times even if I feel that I can do more. On the last set, I lift until I can no longer lift the weight and then I normally try to lift it for about an additional 10 seconds on the last rep (to really feel the burn). If on the last set I can lift the weight 9 or 10 times instead of 8, I make no change to my routine for next time. If however, I can lift the weight 11 times on the final set, the next time I do that exercise, I do sets of 9 reps. To move up from a 9 rep set, I would have to be able to lift the weight 12 times on the final set after doing sets of 9 reps. I would move up weight on an exercise only after doing 13 reps on the final rep of a 10 rep set. The reasoning behind this method is obvious and it works extremely well. Progress has been very smooth. I don't know if this is a standard way of determining set durations and weight increase or not.

[siccmadeloc]

Yea that does seem like a good method, I think ill try something similar to that next time I orkout, any other opinions?

[Iwantneck]

"The reasoning behind this method is obvious"

Can you please explain this to me because I not sure what the reasoning is behind lifting the weight ONLY 8 times even if you can do more, but on the last set you do as much as you can... I am lost!

[Queen of 1,000 Reps]

Hence my name, I have had the best results when I have taken a very light weight and just kept on repping until I cannot rep anymore. Complete failure with a five pound dumbbell ... it may take a thousand reps to get there, but you will feel the BURN.

[Rotting Pumpkin]

Originally posted by Iwantneck:
"The reasoning behind this method is obvious"

Can you please explain this to me because I not sure what the reasoning is behind lifting the weight ONLY 8 times even if you can do more, but on the last set you do as much as you can... I am lost!

Yes, well the idea is to keep the amount of reps between 8-10 in a three set routine. You move from doing three sets of 8 to three sets of 9 if on the last set you are able to do 11 or more reps. The number 11 is key because if you do the math, 11 is three more than 8. So if you have enough energy left over on the last set to do 11 reps, then you should have been able to do 3 set of 9 instead of 3 sets of 8. The same is true if you are doing 3 sets of 9 and you are able to do 12 reps on the last set. If, when you have reached 3 sets of 10, you can do 13 reps on the last set you have to move up in weight and start back at 3 sets of 8 reps. You then start the process over. Does that clear it up?

If you are wondering why you wouldn't do as many reps as possible for all 3 sets, the answer is that it is not possible to do so using a consistent amount of reps (such as 8) while only taking 1 - 1 1/2 minute rests between sets. If you can push to exhaustion on all three sets of 8 reps successfully, taking no more than 1 1/2 off between sets, then it means you are not using the correct amount of weight. Either way, it is on the last rep when you are supposed to work to muscle failure.

[Haloed]

I think you guys have the wrong idea here.

Doing a thousands reps until failure is competely pointless. Feeling a burn is caused by a buildup of lactic acid and is not an indicator of a good workout. In addition, doing that many reps will be extremely hard on your central nervous system.

You should not be hitting failure on each set unless you're testing your max. If you hit failure accidently it's ok but you shouldn't intentionally be hitting failure every workout.

These are the general rep ranges:
1-6 - Strength
8-12 - Hypertrophy
15-20 - Endurance

Generally, the lower the reps the more sets you do (ex. 10x3, 5x5, 3x8, 1-2x15).

For example, if you're doing 8 reps then you use a weight that you think you could do 9-10 reps with.
If the weight starts getting easy or you think you could do more reps then you increase the weight.

If you're working within a rep range (ex. 8-12 reps) then you just do as many as you can but stopping when you think you might be able to do one more, so you're getting close to failure but not hitting it. If you can get more than 12 then increase the weight.

siccmadeloc, what you're doing right now sounds fine to me and is very similar to what I just described.

[Q.]

As Haloed said, it depends a lot on what you want to accomplish. I just read this in Mike Mahler's newletter recently:

2.) Aggressive Strength Tip Of The Week
------------------------------------------------------------------
Take Rest Pause Training To The Next Level With "Cluster Training"!

I am a big fan of heavy single-rep training. I have used RPT (Rest pause
training) many times with success and I recommend it highly. Nevertheless,
one way to make RPT training more intense and effective is to apply
"Cluster Training." I learned about "Cluster Training" from top strength
coach Charles Poliquin. Here is how it works: do five reps with 90% of
your one rep max RPT style. In other words, take 10-15 second breaks in
between each rep. Once you have completed five singe-reps, take a
five-minute break. Then do another five single-reps RPT style. Do five
total sets of five single rep's. Apply this methods two times a week to an
exercise that you want to improve. Make sure that you take 2-3 days off
between each session.

For more information on Charles Polqiuin, go to www.charlespoliquin.net

So, there's a lot of ways you can train and the only determination of what is "best" is what you want to get out of it. I'm trying to improve my strength and strength endurance in a couple of areas (squats, upper body pulling movements) so I'll hit the same areas twice in one week but I'll train with low rep sets (even singles) at the begining of the week and then use higher rep sets on the same exercises later in the week.

[Rotting Pumpkin]

I've given your post some thought Haloed, but the advice to never exercise a muscle to exhaustion runs against everything that I have heard about weight training. There is so much conflicting data when it comes to weight lifting. To illustrate my point, I did a simple Google search on the subject and linked the relevant info.

- Temporary muscle failure is when your body is physically incapable of lifting a limb to a fully contracted position. Since that isn't good enough for me I take my muscle further to the point of not being able to move it more than 2 inches from it's resting position

- the burn
A slang term for the intense and sometimes mildly painful sensation felt in a fatigued muscle... Most bodybuilders consider this a sign that the given exercise movement they have been performing is being effective.

-the last repetition of a set should be the most difficult. From this, you will know that you are working the muscle to exhaustion (failure).

- If you can touch the chest lightly and keep good form and do your reps to exhaustion, you are probably working the muscle thoroughly and properly.

- The key is to choose weights that cause you to reach your "failure point" (where you can't lift the weight anymore) right around the 20-rep mark (for toning) or the 10-rep mark (for muscle building).

- Try all types, do 20 sets, go heavy for just 3-6 reps, go to failure...

- While momentary muscle failure is the ultimate goal of all resistance training, results can be obtained at much lower levels. However, at a minimum you’ll need to reach a minor level of muscle fatigue with at least one set per exercise.

[dos]

Is this for real??!?

Yes, well the idea is to keep the amount of reps between 8-10 in a three set routine. You move from doing three sets of 8 to three sets of 9 if on the last set you are able to do 11 or more reps. The number 11 is key because if you do the math, 11 is three more than 8. So if you have enough energy left over on the last set to do 11 reps, then you should have been able to do 3 set of 9 instead of 3 sets of 8. The same is true if you are doing 3 sets of 9 and you are able to do 12 reps on the last set. If, when you have reached 3 sets of 10, you can do 13 reps on the last set you have to move up in weight and start back at 3 sets of 8 reps. You then start the process over. Does that clear it up?

If you are wondering why you wouldn't do as many reps as possible for all 3 sets, the answer is that it is not possible to do so using a consistent amount of reps (such as 8) while only taking 1 - 1 1/2 minute rests between sets. If you can push to exhaustion on all three sets of 8 reps successfully, taking no more than 1 1/2 off between sets, then it means you are not using the correct amount of weight. Either way, it is on the last rep when you are supposed to work to muscle failure.

Oh my head hurts! How does being able to do 3 extra reps on one particular set transfer over into all of your sets?!

[gregl515]

You're the expert. Explain it to me.

[Rotting Pumpkin]

Originally posted by dos:
Oh my head hurts! How does being able to do 3 extra reps on one particular set transfer over into all of your sets?!

Sorry about your head.

So if this doesn't work, how would you explain why it has been working for me over the course of thousands and thousands of reps? It can't just be coincidence that after I do 13 reps on the last set of 10, the next time I work out I'm able to do 3 sets of 8 on a higher weight. It has worked out perfectly like this for over four months now. Why wouldn't it transfer over to the other two sets in your opinion?

[chris_f]

worst post i've ever read!! hands down, you're all flaming morons...

that said, you people should really listen to dos and haloed. Unlike all your anecdotal (and completely wrong) training techniques, theirs are based on science and training.

Try listening instead of criticizing them, and maybe you won't be flabby weaklings anymore.

[Iwantneck]

Wow Sharkbait I think that was a little rough! I don't think calling someone flaming morons is very nice. How do you know they are flabby?

[Gnobility]

Rotting Pumpkin's approach seems pretty rational to me. JP - your thoughts?

Thanks,

Gn