relative strength

[GqArtguy]

Originally posted by mAtThEw:
What he's saying is that in a deadlift longer arms would make the range of motion smaller, meaning you can lift MORE weight since you don't need to move it as far. When we were talking about longer arms being a setback that was only in the bench press, since the range of motion would actually be increased and the guy would have to move the weight over more of a distance.
Is that right?
Anyway, why do they relate it to bodyweight instead of to lean body mass? Is it because of movements like squats, where you have to move all of your weight as well as what's on the bar, or is it just easier?

Youre correct on the first paragraph.

In the 2nd one, its based on bodyweight because fat also helps limit the ROM in a bench and provides a cushion in a squat.

I'm not trying to dispute the laws of physics, but I still think that leverage is more of a factor than the distance the weight is moved when the human body is considered...moving the bar an extra 6" probably does not make as much of a difference as the leverage factor because less than 100% effort is needed for most of the rep except at the "sticking point". For example, everyone can move more than their one rep max for the first third and the last third of a bench press, but it's that middle third of the rep where leverage has it's greatest effect. So, one is capable of doing more work (force x distance) but is limited on how much work they can apply due to the leverage factor for a portion of the rep.

Moving the bar an extra 6 inches makes a huge difference. Reducing the ROM can give you more leverage. If you are stuck at the middle, you can always get bigger and arch hard enough to where youre not deep in the middle.

Im also with tigereye on this one. If I make a lift I dont care if someone isnt impressed by it due to my bodyweight because its still a PR for me.

[gruckiii]

don't all guys regardless of size start of w/ lifts that are prety weak?

[nobody]

Maybe on a purely intellectual level this discussion has merit. However, when you look at relative strength on a practical level, there are so many variables, you will never get a useful definition. For example, Arthur Saxon was 5'11" and weighed 210lbs. He could bentpress over 300lbs. He was extremely strong from a young age. Why? Were his tendons stronger? Were his muscles more dense? Who knows. What lifts are you going to use to measure relative strength? As people on this thread have already mentioned, some people have longer arms. They might be great deadlifters, but some of their other lifts might suck. There are other mechanical advantages some people have over others such as muscle length and tendon attachments. These are just a few of the variables involved in determining relative strength.

[Q.]

Originally posted by tigereye:
Maybe on a purely intellectual level this discussion has merit.

That's all it was about! I don't give a F*&K (GQ et al) about impressing anyone, personally -as I already said above - since I'm freakin 50 years old (gee, another variable!) and know that I'm a lot weaker than a lot of people, at least in this forum. I am, however, interested in the subject of "strength" and believe that, just as you said, there could be a ton of variables involved. So what's the problem with those of us who are interested having a conversation about those variables????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????? ???????????????????
?????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????? ?????????????????

I don't get it. By the way, when I was talking to that guy at the gym today, we got to talking about the possible variables and, because there are so many potential variables, his study was fairly limited in scope.

[nobody]

Q,
You are right. I should not have entered into this discussion. I think worrying about stuff like that detracts from your training. I have lifted for a long time and I never heard anybody,in a gym, talk about relative strength. The only reason I posted was I hate to see these new guys get distracted from whats really important. Instead of reading posts about relative strength they should be reading articles like this.
http://www.naturalstrength.com/weigh...?ArticleID=104
This is my last post.