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Old 07-30-2003, 04:18 PM   #1 (permalink)
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I just started lifting weights about six weeks ago, and I need some advice on my program. Its been serving me pretty well so far, but I want to know if there's a way I can enhance it (or if it should be changed, if thats the case). For the time being, my aim is to gain size and strength; however, ultimately I will be focusing on definition. This is the order of exercises that I perform:

1. Lat pull
2. Arm curl
3. Tricep pushdown
4. Seated upright row
5. Seated row
6. Shoulder press
7. Shoulder fly
8. Decline fly
9. Incline fly

I do each exercise for 3-4 sets, with each set at the same weight level. I step up the weights by 10 pounds whenever it starts getting easy (that duration has been varying). As for the frequency of the program, I lift every other day, and I play basketball on opposite days. Do any of you have any suggestions? I hope that this description makes sense. Thanks a lot
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Old 07-30-2003, 06:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think you're going to get the same answer (or at least a similar one) as previous similar threads.

1) Muscular definition is largely a product of diet and (I will say) aerobic activity, not of lifting--regardless of whether you're doing compound or "isolation" lifts.

2) If your current program is working, and you're enjoying it, it is always an option to stick with it until such a time as it's not working, or you're not enjoying it.

3) I think many people will comment on the lack of compound movements--though again, see point number 2 above.

4) If point number 2 above didn't/doesn't apply to you, then I would probably look at how much you're spending on shoulders vs. other body parts (three lifts (out of 9 total lifts) for shoulder--military press, upright row and what I think might be lateral or rear raises, called shoulder flyes), and the lack of leg work. I would probably ask what your rationale is for doing incline _and_ decline flyes as well as the reason for selecting flyes as your only chest exercises.
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Old 07-30-2003, 08:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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What no leg work? check out this web site for work-outs and more knoweledge (www.t-mag.com) use the search engine to find awesome work-outs.
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Old 07-30-2003, 08:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Nice catch Silas... You are so right. Where's the legs [beef]? Here is an easy way to get started.
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Old 07-30-2003, 11:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Bryanc-
1. My lower body is already well-conditioned because of basketball, thats why I haven't paid too much attention to it (in terms of weight lifting) thus far.
2. Shoulders are my primary focus area
3. I am trying to hit my upper and inner chest areas, and I was told that doing fly exercises would be the best route.
I hope those points offer some clarification...thanks again
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Old 07-31-2003, 12:00 AM   #6 (permalink)
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"Bryanc-
1. My lower body is already well-conditioned because of basketball, thats why I haven't paid too much attention to it (in terms of weight lifting) thus far."

Your wrong! If you are a basketball player you should be doing your legs a lot more w/ weights then your average fitness person! Ever see that Sprite Comercial w/ Kobe Brynt? Kobe was Squatting w/ Chains Dave Tate style .

Please don't think that just because you ball you don't need to work your legs. Or don't have to do as much in your lower body!
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Old 07-31-2003, 10:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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But if I'm happy with the conditioning on my legs, why should I be concerned with having a lower body program? As you can see, I'm new to this whole thing...
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Old 07-31-2003, 01:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well, I guess it depends on what _you_ mean by having a goal of "strength and size". Athletes of all sports, tend to incorporate lifts that strengthen the muscles that are used during their sport, as well as ones that are not used as much. What I hear you saying is, "My legs are fine. I want a bigger upper body and bold shoulders." However, the keys to growth are multifactorial, and apparently, one of the larger keys is the idea that the more muscles you mobilize (by mass, not number), the faster you will possibly grow. This effect is systemic. By mass, your legs contribute a large amount to this effect, with back and chest muscles coming in second. So, it may be that to get that bigger upper body, you need to work the lower one too.

The reason why many trainers promote compound lifts (i.e. lifts that require more than one muscle group) is also related to the argument above, as well as perhaps, being more 'functional'. Your chest muscles seldom work in isolation, and while intutively, it seems like a good idea to isolate everything because those are the body parts you're interested in, there are additional benefits to doing compound movements, the first of which is efficiency (less time to 'work' more muscle groups)

Lastly, while we've had (and may be still having) the debate on whether one can work the 'upper' and 'lower' chest differentially, I've yet to see evidence that one can work the 'inner' and 'outer' chest differentially. At least with the upper/lower debate, there is the possibility of biomechanical influence. Inner and outer? Somehow I doubt it.

I'm not going to go on and on here, and I think JP's standard beginner program is probably quite good. Suffice it to say that yours is not the first program to use this approach, and it won't be the last. It's a fairly common approach for most beginners to focus on the body parts they feel they want, when, in my opinion, they should be focussing on building a strength base to build upon. But if what you're doing works for you, and does you no harm, then keep at it.
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Old 07-31-2003, 02:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the advice. Somebody suggested to me that I follow this routine (instead of what I'm doing right now):

1. Lat pull
2. Seated upright row
3. Seated row
4. Shoulder press
5. Shoulder fly
6. Incline fly
7. Bench press
8. Arm curl
9. Tricep pushdown

While doing this, he suggested that I start the first set with about 12 reps, increase the weight by 5-10 pounds and do 10 reps, then increase the weight again and do 8 reps. Do you think this setup would be more effective? As for a legs workout, I am planning on picking that up in about a month, but I'm more interested in concentrating on my upper body at this time. In addition, the facilities that I'm using doesn't have that great of a range of leg exercises.
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Old 07-31-2003, 03:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Yeah, that program isn't actually different from the other one, except you've replaced decline flyes with bench press. You still have the large proportion of shoulder specific exercises (upright row, "shoulder flye", and shoulder press) and the focus is still primarily on isolation movements (6 out of 9 exercises). Rep range at this point of your weight lifting 'career' doesn't factor in all that much--the strength gains you make will mostly be neuromuscular in nature, as opposed to muscular adaptations. 12, 10, 8, regardless of whether you put weight on the lift at each set isn't going to be much different than 10, 10, 10.
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Old 07-31-2003, 05:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm not too familiar with the theory behind isolation exercises. What is the ideal approach, and what exercises should be used to follow that approach? Please note that I am using an exercise machine, so its capabilities are limited (there's still a good number of functions and variations on it though).
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