With all the other exercises I do like squats, deadlifts, good mornings, chin ups - pullups, military press, dumbbell lateral raises (front, side - standing and balancing on my knees on a swiss ball), one arm barbell snatches (I do these with 85 lbs.), and that thing where you hold a dumbbell above your head in one hand and reach down with your other hand to touch your toes while keeping your legs straight... on and on...
The question is: Do I still need to do ab specific exercises? Specifically, am I missing any key areas of strength development in my trunk by only working my core during these other exercises? Are their any risks of injury or problems that could develop because of a lack of focus on the core in anyone's experience?
My thoughts are that it shouldn't, but I'm not trained in the mechanics of the human body, so I humbly ask you kind sir's to school my ass.
It sounds like you work your core muscles pretty well, but I don't think it would hurt to occaisionally throw in some direct ab work. I like Janda situps best of all
From T-Mag: Janda sit-up — While there's some controversy to this exercise, I've found it to be a fun addition to training. Named after Czech exercise physiologist, Dr. Vladimir Janda, this is one of the most challenging sit-up variations as it completely isolates the rectus abdominals by eliminating the hip flexors.
The performance of this exercise is done by sitting in a normal sit-up position, feet flat on ground but vigorously tightening hamstrings and glutes. This will cause the hip flexors to be inactivated in a process called reciprocal inhibition, which basically means that opposite muscles to the contracted ones will relax. The exercise can be done using a dedicated apparatus, having a workout partner exert pulling pressure on your calves (while you maintain your feet on the ground) or wrapping your legs over barbell and pulling back. As you begin the exercise, fill your lungs with air and in a slow (three to five second count) ascent, slowly exhale. Seems simple, but go ahead try it!
One other thing... If you have someone to train with, get on a decline sit-up bench and have them throw you a 12 lb. medicine ball, using your abs to absorb the impact going down into a crunch, then throwing it back to your partner, again, trying to use as much momentum from the abs as possible (you will also lightly work your arms and chest a bit). A more advanced version of this is to have your partner lob the med ball to you, catching it overhead as you descend, then overhead throw it back to them on your contraction.
If all this isn't enough, just turn on a heat element on your stove, and lay on it in a prone position, belly to the burner. That might be (slightly) less painful.
Bad News JP...the Janda premise that his variation of the sit-up reduces psoas (hip flexor) activity is bunk.
Per Juker et al.,1998...This type of sit-up produces the highest psoas activation of any tested. It is due to the fact the contraction of the hamstrings creates a hip extension moment which the psoas must over come to perform the sit-up which requires hip flexion. That's why they are hard to perform...you're trying to to extend the hip and flex it at the same time.
From my understanding, a great deal of Janda's philosophy is based on observations and theory rather than direct testing and corroboration. A number of "gurus" use his teachings a a basis from which they perpetuate some questionable information [I think you know to whom I'm referring] to their followers.
I don't discount it all because by observation some appears to be applicable in the clinic. For instance, treating the psoas for many low back disfunctions does wonders to reduce pain and range of motion limitations.
Bill Hartman, voted trainer of the year for 2003 by Your Golf Fitness Coach.com
Inkdeep...
You are already hitting your core muscles pretty hard. Remember, more is not always better. There are many athletes (think Olympic level) who do little in the way of direct ab work. Training for their sport and supplementary strength exercises tends to cover their needs. Charlie Francis is known for having his sprinters do extremely high rep endurance training for his sprinters abs because of all the high intensity training they get by sprinting and heavy weight training. Why? It's less taxing on the CNS.
ACH! Mien bubble has been burst again! Bill, you know too much. Are you this smart with a couple of pitchers in you?
Okay Inky... scrap what I just said. Well, Bill hasn't come down on the med ball exercise yet, so maybe you can do that one. He was voted best trainer by www.yourgolffitnesscoach.com after all!
jp <---voted cutest trainer by a bunch of old ladies I met at the bank last week!
__________________
Robert dos Remedios, MA, CSCS,
HCC (Hartman-Cosgrove Certified)
Director of Speed, Strength & Conditioning
College of the Canyons, CA http://www.canyons.edu/departments/pe/strength
"NO CHAMPION HAS EVER ACHIEVED HIS OR HER GOAL WITHOUT SHOWING MORE DEDICATION THAN THE NEXT PERSON; MAKING MORE SACRIFICES THAN THE NEXT PERSON; WORKING HARDER, TRAINING, AND CONDITIONING HIM / HERSELF MORE THAN THE NEXT PERSON; ENJOYING HIS / HER FINAL GOAL MORE THAN THE NEXT PERSON"
I was referring to those great minds, coaches, trainers, and athletes that I steal, er, uh, learn from.
However, JP, I would include you in that group as I will be stealing, uh, rather, I'll be borrowing your business intellect in the very near future .
By the way, I'm not old. Now my right shoulder, right knee, and right hip average about 70 years of wear and tear...they're old, but no me [img]smile.gif[/img]
Bill Hartman, Vice President, JP Fitness Mutual Admiration Society
Bill, I think you suck . Because, we disagree on balance training Anyways Bill is one of the more intellegent trainers/coaches I've seen. By the way I paid for my H.A.R.T.M.A.N certifation already. Where is it? I say your a fraud also Bill.
In Health,
Silas Chen
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In Health,
Silas S Chen Exercise Specialist @ MorganStanely Fitness Center Mid-town NYC
Ouch! I'm a bit sensitive, so please be nice [img]smile.gif[/img]
Silas,
I believe your check was a bit on the light side . There were also some questionable responses in the balance training section of your test answer sheet [img]tongue.gif[/img] . They will be reviewed by committe and your results will be tabulated accordingly.
Yours in Fitness,
Bill Hartman, President, HARTMAN Institute of Fitness, Rehabilitation, and Sports Training (HIFRS) AKA, the "Dungeon".
Bill: Enlighten me here master, as I'm young and cannot speak to you scientifically so I'll try what I know, and that is how it feels!
With the Janda's, (and no everyone it's not Jan-Da) I have read that study before, it was first pointed out to me by the late Mel Siff. However, I can do 20 situps using good form and feel little in my abs. I can do 20 Janda situps and feel as if my abs are completely on fire. I see what the study says about hip flexor involvment (I never understand why hip flexor use in abs is a horrid thing) and why it's hard to extend/flex the hip. Wouldn't you say that the abs are very activated during this movement which might still warrant use of Janda situps?
__________________
DKing: I would rather lift with naked old dudes
Doing Janda's correctly typically increases the duration of contraction which may alter RPE. Also, if psoas is strongly recruited, creating an extension force in the lumbar spine, you may be increasing the contractile intensity of the abdominal isometric as your trunk raises from the floor.
Personally, I have no issues with combined hip flexor/abdominal activity. It's how we function. Where I do have issues is when an individual lacks sufficient abdominal strength to match the pull of the hip flexors. That means Janda's may be an effective exercise for some if you choose to do them.
However, I think they (like many other gurus) need to re-examine how they present the science behind what they're doing rather than sticking with the same old inaccurate dogma. In my mind, the promotion of Janda sit-ups as it is now done is just a marketing tool to sell a useless gadget.
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