undulating periodization article

[RipStone]

I have been reading a lot on periodization and Bill Star's 5x5 training program of late. I came across this article by Alwyn Crosgrove on undualting periodization and it layed out 3 routines that look really good. My question is about the rep/set schemes....are you supposed to work up to your maxes for(let's say) the weeks when you do 5x5. Or are you supposed to use your 5 rep max for each set during thee weeks? So does it look like this...

95x5
135x5
155x5
185x5
205x5

or this...

205x5
205x5
205x5
205x5
205x5

Or neither? Thanks.

Here's thr article...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/alwyn3.htm

[wingsfan]

you want to finish all the reps in all the sets. in other words, if it's the 5x5 day, you want to use a weight that you can do 5 times each of the 5 sets.

i was in the middle of doing that routine when i had an injury and had to suspend it. i might get back to it at some point in the future though.

here was the log i used to follow my progress and to show what modifications i did:

http://forums.jpfitness.com/noncgi/u.../t/000033.html

[RipStone]

Thanks wingsfan. I'll look over the journal a little later. Quick question. For both weeks one a four you use a 5x5 rep/set scheme. Are you supposed to try to increase the weight used in week 4 vs. week 1? Also, in week one are you supposed to try increase the weight used from monday to thursday? Thanks.

[sean]

Originally posted by RipStone:
Thanks wingsfan. I'll look over the journal a little later. Quick question. For both weeks one a four you use a 5x5 rep/set scheme. Are you supposed to try to increase the weight used in week 4 vs. week 1? Also, in week one are you supposed to try increase the weight used from monday to thursday? Thanks.

I'll take a stab and say, yes, you are trying to increase the load.

By the time you hit week 4, presumably there has been some positive adaptaions that would allow you to handle more weight than in week 1(which would be the first time you did the movement at the same rep/tempo/rest). If you are doing a weight that you can now do for example, 7 (rather than the 5 listed) you are not adhering to the program.

make sense?

On the other hand, if you can only handle the same weight, or worse, you can handle less, something else is going on(to much overall stress, not enough food, not enough sleep, etc...)

[wingsfan]

Originally posted by RipStone:
Thanks wingsfan. I'll look over the journal a little later. Quick question. For both weeks one a four you use a 5x5 rep/set scheme. Are you supposed to try to increase the weight used in week 4 vs. week 1? Also, in week one are you supposed to try increase the weight used from monday to thursday? Thanks.

sean pretty much answered the part about adding weight from the same workout to the same workout.

here's a way to look at it. view the rep/set schemes as separate from each other. in other words, your 5x5 schemes workout 1 and 4 are on one track, your 3x15 schemes are on another track.

so for the incline BP in workout 1 (5x5), you might use 50 pounds for each work set. for the incline BP in workout 4 (5x5 again) you might use 55 pounds.

for workout 2(3x15) on the incline BP, you might drop the weight to 25 pounds, and on workout 5 put it at 30 pounds.

so you treat the different rep/set schemes on their own seperate track.

[RipStone]

Thanks guys. Your repsonses verifed my inclinations. I will most likely try this program(might chnage some exercises) in a few weeks. I'm always lookin at new ways to make my workouts better...dunno if this is good or bad though.

[Iceztiq]

tell me the result, rip.

[RipStone]

I am gonna start this routine with a slightly modified exercise selection. However, I wanna train for strength a little more. Would it be ok if I switched the periodization to look like this...

workouts 1 and 4: 5x5
workouts 2 and 5: 4x10
workouts 3 and 6: 8x3

Let me know if this would be ok or if it would be messing up the undulating periodization theory? Thanks.

[GqArtguy]

There are different ways to do 5*5, Dan John wrote an article about a little while ago on t-mag. You could pyramid up, down, stick with straight weight, whatever works for you. Straight weight is the hardest in my opinion.

[wingsfan]

Rip, i would really stick to what alwyn sets out in this first part. it's really more for getting prepared for the next phase phase. if you take a look at the second part/phase, you'll see that you're going to have 2 workouts where you're doing 6x3 and 2 workouts doing 5x6. that'll really hit you on the strength part of the spectrum.

so my advice is to give what he's listed on part one a shot. it's only a few weeks and then you'll move on to the next phase and really be moving the plates.

[RipStone]

Originally posted by wingsfan:
Rip, i would really stick to what alwyn sets out in this first part. it's really more for getting prepared for the next phase phase. if you take a look at the second part/phase, you'll see that you're going to have 2 workouts where you're doing 6x3 and 2 workouts doing 5x6. that'll really hit you on the strength part of the spectrum.

so my advice is to give what he's listed on part one a shot. it's only a few weeks and then you'll move on to the next phase and really be moving the plates.

that's what i thought you were gonna say, hehe. but, the thing is, if i only decided to do part 1 of the program, would doing this periodization pattern affect the philopsophy?

[wingsfan]

okay, well, if you're thinking you're only going to do part 1, then give your rep scheme a try. the only thing i'm concerned about is that you could have two really heavy days with only a couple of days rest between them and you might find yourself not able to give it your all. it would be a good experiment though. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[sean]

Originally posted by RipStone:
I am gonna start this routine with a slightly modified exercise selection. However, I wanna train for strength a little more. Would it be ok if I switched the periodization to look like this...

workouts 1 and 4: 5x5
workouts 2 and 5: 4x10
workouts 3 and 6: 8x3

Let me know if this would be ok or if it would be messing up the undulating periodization theory? Thanks.

As usual, the answer is "it depends".

Followed with "why?" in this case, what is your reasoning behind your the rep/load scheme you came up with that makes it more effective than what is originally proposed?

You probably should do the program as written.

It's very likely that it was written so that it would be most effective "generally speaking" and not necessarily most effective for a specific individual(no general program is).

Try is as designed, its only a few months. Then mess with it.

[RipStone]

sean- doing the orginal plan does seem like the smart way to go. but, i might only do the first part of the program. i just don't wanna do anything that would not benifit my training so thats what i was asking if this rep/set scheme with undulating periodization would be ok. i dunno...decisions, decisions hehe [img]smile.gif[/img]

thanks for the helps guys.

[GqArtguy]

Originally posted by RipStone:
sean- doing the orginal plan does seem like the smart way to go. but, i might only do the first part of the program.

Why?

i just don't wanna do anything that would not benifit my training so thats what i was asking if this rep/set scheme with undulating periodization would be ok. i dunno...decisions, decisions hehe [img]smile.gif[/img]

What benefits are you looking for?

[RipStone]

GQ- I just wanna give periodization a try. I have been doing Westside templates for a while now and I thought doing something different would be good.

By benifits I meant my goals which are strength with some hypertrophy.

[GqArtguy]

Originally posted by RipStone:
GQ- I just wanna give periodization a try. I have been doing Westside templates for a while now and I thought doing something different would be good.

By benifits I meant my goals which are strength with some hypertrophy.

Then why do only the first part of the program?

[wingsfan]

Originally posted by RipStone:
GQ- I just wanna give periodization a try. I have been doing Westside templates for a while now and I thought doing something different would be good.

By benifits I meant my goals which are strength with some hypertrophy.

Rip, i think what might help you is to understand what periodization actually means. let me give you the definition out of the NSCA's Essentials of Strength Training and Conditioning:

periodization:"To promote long-term training and performance improvements, the strength and conditioning professional should include variations in training specificity, intensity, and volume organized in planned periods or cycles within an overall program."

So if you've ever looked at programs like TAP, BOM, Homegrown, etc, those are all programs that use a periodized format. basically, the short answer is they switch things up once in awhile.

think about guys who are in the gym ALL THE TIME doing 3 sets of 10 of the exact same exercises every other day for the last year and a half. those type of programs are not periodized. there just, well, an good example of unperiodization. [img]smile.gif[/img]

now, undulating periodization is simply a different form of periodization. here's the definition of undulating from the same source listed above "involves large daily fluctuations in the load and volume assignments for core exercises." just a note, when they use the term "core exercises" they don't just mean core as in what is popularly known as ab or lower back exercises. they mean core exercises like BP, squat, deads, pullups, etc. basically the big ones.

as Alywn points out in the text of the article, some studies have shown that undulating has been more effective in producing strength gains than even just a regular periodized model. but again, i don't think any study has been conclusive.

I hope that kind of helps in some of the clarification as to what these terms mean.

don't be afraid of doing sets of 15 reps, 25 reps, etc. don't think that if you go with that rep scheme that you wouldn't be getting stronger or, that you would lose strength. By changing up these reps and sets every workout, you're really going to be freaking out your body and thus, it's not going to know what's coming next and will have no choice but to "defend" against that by adjusting MF content or CNS adaptation.

so give the program as written a try. you might surprise yourself. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Mike Navin, CSCS

[kuri]

Good stuff here, thanks Gentlemen.

I agree with pretty much all WF has stated. Many of CT's pendulum programs are based on similar undulating principles. They are hard but if you stick with the methods and get your nutrition in order you should see good gains.

Following up a session with 10x3 and 6x4s with a session of 2x18 will mess you up! In a good way of course.