Front vs Back Squat Comparison

[Q.]

From another discussion list, the conversation was about what the % of front squat as compared to back squat. Several comments were made that they are two very different exercises. I thought that they were more similar than different. Now I'm wondering just how different are they???

I'd love to hear a comparison of the two from someone who has a grasp of the biomechanics and comments on the relative benefits of each.

Thanks in advance - Q

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Here are a couple of the messages from the other discussion:

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 12:30:48 -0000
Subject: Re: Front Squat 1RM

I am not sure if anyone as ever seen a specific numbers on this. But
my thought is that there is no rule of thumb as to what percent one
will front squat of their back squat. Remember these are two very
different movements. Flexiblity, technique and strength in different
muscle groups are just a few thing that I can think of that will
affect the difference. My best squat is 500 and I know I could not
front squat near 400. For me I think this would be due to the fact
that I don't do a ton of front squatting and therefore my technique
is not as good. But who knows I could be wrong?

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 07:16:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Front Squat 1RM

I would think that this would be very hard to relate.
Front squat technique is very difficult and requires
great shoulder strength as well as leg strength.

[GqArtguy]

Cant give you the research but I can tell you from experience that they are very different despite the fact that they both are called squats. I can do about half of back squat when front squatting, but thats changing as I get better at it. The big difference for me was stress on the torso, Ive had to do some extra core work to make sure that the bar wont slip off onto my palms. I notice it feels like I sit back more when Im front squatting as well, I think this is more of a balance issue and rely on my legs to absorb most of the lift. I do agree that you need more flexibility in front squatting, esp in the hips and ankles.

[Bill Hartman]

I pulled this from a Mel Siff post on Supertraining.

While not comparing front and back squats it does show the difference between between high bar weightlifting squats and powerlifting squats.

For you question, consider the front squats to be more like Oly squats and the back squat to be more like powerlifting squats. With a little latitude, you can get a rough estimate of the difference (of course the numbers would not be exact)...

All Squats the Same?

Siff M C "Facts & Fallacies of Fitness" (2002)

The following research investigated the biomechanical differences between
weightlifting and powerlifting squats to show that all types of squatting
definitely are not the same.

Wretenberg P, Feng Y, Arborelius U High- and low-bar squatting techniques
during weight-training. Med Sci Sports Exerc 1996 Feb; 28(2): 218-24

National class weightlifters performed "high-bar" squats and national class
powerlifters performed "low-bar" squats, with a barbell weight of 65% of
their 1 RM, and to parallel- and a deep-squatting depth. Ground reaction
forces were measured with a force platform and motion was analyzed from a
video record of the squats.

The peak moments of force were flexing both for the hip and the knee.
The mean peak moments of force at the HIP were (Nm = Newton-metres):

1. Weightlifters 230 Nm (deep) and 216 Nm (parallel)
2. Powerlifters 324 Nm (deep), and 309 Nm (parallel).

At the KNEE the mean peak moments for:

1. Weightlifters were 191 Nm (deep) and 131 Nm (parallel)
2. Powerlifters, 139 Nm (deep) and 92 Nm (parallel).

The weightlifters had the load more equally distributed between hip and knee,
whereas the powerlifters put relatively more load on the hip joint. The thigh
muscular activity was slightly higher for the powerlifters.
*********

Bill Hartman

[Bill Hartman]

I reread the question Q posted...

A properly performed front squat will not be limited by shoulder strength. The bar should rest comfortably in the rack position which is more an issue of flexibility of the shoulders and wrists to prevent the bar from rolling forward off the shoulders.

With an upright trunk and a load anterior to the spine, core strength, more specifically, spinal extension strength is usually a limiting factor (in addition to flexibility issues required to squat with an upright trunk).

To the best of my knowledge, there are no numbers indicating what your front squat should be compared to back squat because of the variability in technique,flexibility, etc.

I will say that Olympic weightlifters have front squats that closely approximate their back squats most likely due to training specificity for their sport.

Bill

[Q.]

Originally posted by Quercus:
Now I'm wondering just how different are they???

I'd love to hear a comparison of the two ... and comments on the relative benefits of each.

Thanks in advance - Q

Thanks, folks. I got my quotes off Supertraining, too, and I wasn't really that interested in irquestion, i.e., % of one compared to the other, as I was (1) if they basially work the same muscles and, if not, (2) what are the relative benefits of each?

I would guess someone will say that "depends on what you're trying to accomplish" and my answer would be general fitness. Would doing one or the other be just as beneficial for the average person as doing both or are they different enough to warrant including both in a routine?

I forgot my cheat sheet - the scrap of paper I carry into the gym to help me remember what my plan is for the day - today so I did basically a "KILL THE LEGS" day with about 8 work sets of front squats and about 8 set of back squats on the (evil) Smith machine just so I could increase the weight and not concern myself with balance. I also threw in a few sets on the leg press just to make sure I had trouble walking out.

By the way, Bill, if you come back to this thread, I left out the 2x4 for under my heels and it felt much better to me. I'm working on going deeper and it actually seems easier w/o... and I did the "sit on my heels" thing to stretch out a bit more beforehand.

Q