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Old 03-10-2005, 09:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
Jake
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I remember reading discussions about this in the past--either here or at t-mag, but my searches haven't found anything. Does anyone have an article or other info about how changes in resting heart rate can be used to gauge overtraining?

Thanks,
Jake
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Old 03-10-2005, 10:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
DKing
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Jake, Mel Siff has some really cool stuff written about this that I have been reading about. Either a little latter tonight or tomorrow I will put a bunch of it up for you to take a look at. Testing and things like you are talking about. You should look into buying Supertraining, its amazing.

But for now I have to help my room mate celebrate his birthday.

Danny
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Old 03-10-2005, 11:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
Chris Correia
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I just picked up Supertraining on an interlibrary loan today. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but based on my 5 minute perusal, Danny seems to be right. I supposed I'll be laying out the big bucks for it.
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Old 03-10-2005, 11:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
Jake
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Just checked my university's library catalog. For some reason, we don't have Supertraining but we do have Siff's doctoral thesis: "A Ballistic Analysis of Human Knee Stability" on microfiche. What the hell???

Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you can post some of this info!

Many thanks,
Jake
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Old 03-11-2005, 03:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Jake, my searching for heart rate and overtraining is coming up limited. Now that I think about it it might be in Christian Thibs first book but I can't seem to find that one right now.

Siff did note that in overtraining one common symptom was an elevated resting heart rate. To go a little further I know Bill talked in the past that the best way to monitor that was right in the morning on days when you wake up on your own (like no alarm clock scaring you awake). An increase in the average heart rate is a signal that you have moved too far into the overtraining state.

Siff did write a bunch more about using heart rate to monitor intensity during a workout and thats the more interesting stuff I mentioned in my first post but unfortunatly thats a lot of typing and its 2:45 so it will have to wait for another day. Hope I helped a bit.

Danny
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Old 03-11-2005, 10:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
Jake
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Cool, Danny. I dug around the t-mag forums some more and fount this from CT:

A good way to determine your fatigue status is to take your morning heart rate (immediately upon waking up, don't even stand up in bed. Take your pulse for 60 seconds).

First establish a baseline (during a period where you feel great, not tired and preferably after 3-4 days of rest).

Take your heart rate every morning. If it stays 5-10BPM over your baseline for 2-3+ days in a row you are probably in an overreaching (short term overtraining) state. It it's elevated only by 3-5BPM you might be overstressing your body, simply cut down training volume a bit. But if you are 5-10BPM over your baseline you need to drastically cut down volume and intensity for a few days (until you return to your baseline).
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Old 03-11-2005, 12:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
Bill Hartman
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I don't really like the morning heart rate ritual because of the alarm clock issue and because when I wake up the last thing I want to do is use my brain.

You can do a similar test by taking heart rate after 10 mintues of lying down but awake. You must take the measure at the same time every day. This avoids the whole shock of waking up issue.

Here's a gift from Dr. Siff...

Someone posed this question on another list. Would anyone here like to
consider it?


Has anyone heard of the Index of Efficient Recovery? It is apparently from
the book "Science of Sports Training: How to plan and control training for
Peak Performance", by Thomas Kurz. Is anyone familiar with this? Has any
research been done on it? It is defined as follows (where HR = Heart rate):


Index of Efficient Recovery (IER)


IER =
-



------------------------------*------------------------------*-----------

-



*** This type of Index really should be simplified as "Index of Recovery",
since addition of the term "efficient" is redundant. There are many such
Indices of Recovery after exercise, most of which are used in the world of
cardiovascular conditioning and endurance exercise, where recovery heart rate
is one of the basic measures used in assessing cardio fitness.


Nevertheless, heart rate tests may also be used in strength training
situations, as discussed in "Supertraining" (Siff, 2000, Ch 6, p327):


OTHER HEART RATE TESTS


The squat has been used by Russian scientists to monitor the work capacity of
Olympic weightlifters (Novik et al, 1980). Based on their studies, they
recommended applying their test as follows: At the beginning of a training
cycle (when first beginning training, preparing for competition etc.), the
lifter determines his 1RM squat. Then, with 85-90% of this 1RM, the lifter
performs one set of 3 repetitions of squats, immediately after which his
heart rate is measured for a period lasting one minute. This process is
continued throughout the training cycle to provide ongoing information on the
lifter's work capacity. If the immediate post-squatting and the post-one
minute heart rates decrease, then work capacity has increased and loading may
be increased.....


Another test computes the adapted PWC-170 ('Physical Work Capacity', 170
beats per minute heart rate) test. This test is common in the world of
cardiovascular performance, but Russian research enables one to produce a
version which may be applied to weight training situations (Karpman et al,
1982; Dvorkin, 1988). Although this test may be administered according to
other protocols, one popular version requires the athlete to be tested with
his 10RM load for a given exercise. He then rests for about 5 minutes, then
performs 5 repetitions with this load, immediately after which his heart rate
is measured. He rests for another 5 minutes, then repeats the same lift for
8-10 repetitions. His post-exercise heart rate is measured again and his
PWC-170 is computed from the following equation, where it should be noted
that the squat is far more commonly used than the other lifts:


PWC-170 = N1 + (N2 - N1).(170 - F1) / (F2 - F1)


where: F1 = heart rate immediately after R1 repetitions with weight W
(in kg)
and: F2 = heart rate immediately after R2 repetitions with weight
W (in kg)


Work done in 1st effort N1 = (9.8) W. R1.(D)
Work done in 2nd effort N2 = (9.8) W. R2.(D)


where D is the distance (in metres) through which the load is moved by the
lifter. Its magnitude is given below as a fraction of the height of the
lifter (see Table 6.5). This distance in the Olympic lifts generally
decreases with the level of proficiency of the lifter, but it does not differ
by more than a small percentage from the mean values given here, so that the
latter may be used to a most acceptable degree of accuracy for general
testing. What is of more concern is that this version of the PWC protocol
computes only the concentric muscle work for all lifts. So, for greater
validity, the contribution of any eccentric muscle action in each case has
been estimated to add 70% more work in each case where there is significant
eccentric action and this value has been added to the concentric value to
yield an estimated equivalent D for the total work done........


Heart rate (HR) monitoring is valuable not only in endurance sports
(Cardiovascular HR Monitoring), but also in explosive and other non-oxidative
activities to estimate levels of both physical and mental stress. For
instance, maintaining a heart rate of at least 80% of maximum is sometimes
advocated during rowing training for Olympic rowers for developing muscle
endurance (Muscle Endurance HR Monitoring).


Overall preparedness is also assessed by measuring the difference between
resting HR and HR immediately after and for a few minutes after suddenly
jumping up from a supine position (Postural HR Monitoring). Similar
measurements are taken before, during and after breath holding for maximal
duration as a guide to anoxic capability during intensive breath-holding
sports such as weightlifting and wrestling (Apnoeic HR Monitoring). Medical
HR Monitoring is used, of course, to diagnose the existence of illness or
pathology in the athlete....


Several more tests of performance appear in Ch 8.7 of "Supertraining" - the
above serve as an example to offer some insights into the many different ways
in which one may use HR tests to monitor progress and physiological status.


Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/*Supertraining/

Bill
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Old 03-12-2005, 07:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
Jake
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Damn, that's complicated--great info though. Thanks for the reply, Bill. I'm going to look it over again and integrate one of the tests into my training.

Jake
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Old 03-13-2005, 05:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
sean
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jake:
Damn, that's complicated--great info though. Thanks for the reply, Bill. I'm going to look it over again and integrate one of the tests into my training.

Jake
Hence the challenge with Supertraining, most of it is impenetratable...
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