Ok, I've given front squats several tries, but I've decided that they're not for me. The method where you bend your elbows all the way and have the bar rest on your fingers doesn't quite work because my forearms are too long, so I end up not being able to bring my elbows high enough; this leads to my wrists hurting a decent bit. The other method (arms-crossed) hasn't worked for me because I can't find a place to rest the bar that doesn't hurt (I know, on a muscle, not bone), and besides, I don't trust myself supporting the weight. With the first method, I've hit a bottleneck where I know my legs can handle a decent bit more weight, but my wrists cannot support more. Therefore, can someone suggest a good alternative? The routine I'm currently on is the beginner routine of HGM Phase 3, specifically Workout C.
Is there really a huge difference between front and back squats? You would think you would just be able to do back squats or maybe box squats. I'm sure someone can confirm or deny this. Good luck
Originally posted by sean: I would be suprised if your forearms were really to long...
Are you sure you just can't get enough extension in your upper back which is preventing this from working?
I mean that, if I put my wrists to where they would be supporting the bar where they should be in a front squat, I cannot bring my elbows up very far at all. As a comparison, if I bend my arm all the way up, my wrist is at shoulder level.
BTW, talk about fast response time...busy Sunday night everyone?
[edit] Additionally, to bring my elbows up to the level that I see in all pics/videos of front squats, I would have to be holding the bar behind my head.
One of the many times (well, not too many) that I wish I had a camera. Suffice it to say that I cannot raise my elbows up high enough to properly support the front squat. I tried just now for the heck of it to see how I would have to stand to get my fingers resting on my shoulder area as if I were holding a bar there, and I would have to lean WAY back in order to do so, to the point that I'm positive it's not good form.
My best is you have excessive rounding of the upper back. The inability to get proper extension is the limiting factor here, not that you have long forearms...
The sensation that you have to lean to far back is really just because you don't go there(into extension) and that normal extension that you should be walking around with is as far as you can go, and you can't go further, like someone with normal function would be able to go, so it feels like you are going to fall over backwards.
Since I don't have a pic, I guess we're having communication difficulties, but here goes:
Without moving my upper back whatsoever, or anything else save my arms, even in a seated position, I cannot get my hands into the position required to support a bar in the correct place. Perhaps at the gym I can ask one of their trainers to show me proper form for front squats (might as well), but it isn't a matter of upper back rounding too much (I don't think).
As to DB front squats, I don't think that I could safely support as much weight in DB form as is necessary in order for me to move up in weight. I think that it was around 165 (80-85lb dumbbells). Maybe I could support it, but it seems like a lot to hold up like that.
I think that the routine for the day goes: Front Squats, Hack Squats, Romanian Deadlifts, Single-leg calf raises. The hack squats are done with 25lb plates on the floor, so they really focus on my hamstrings. Therefore, I think I that a substitution focusing more on the quad area would be good.
I do appreciate all the responses, I'm not trying to be a pain (though it *is* Monday morning)
I find it strange that you can't get your arms up like that. I'm pretty far from being Mr. Flexible, but I have no issues with it.
I am assuming you can't do this?
Either way, assuming you aren't flexible to get your elbows up. Have your tried crossing you arms, like this?
Although the other squat variations will work, they are all variations of each other and don't hit everything exactly the same. The Front squat forces you to remain more upright. It will force better form even if you have to use light weight for it.
I would personally say if you have huge problems doing front squats it might be a good reason to go light and learn the form, all your squats will most likely benefit from it.
Og
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
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Actually I can hold the bar as demonstrated in that first pic. All the other pics I had seen have the guy (or gal) with elbows pointing much higher up, so I therefore assumed that I was doing it incorrectly. The problem is that it kills my wrists doing this. The second form might work for me if there were a bar pad large enough to be on top of both my shoulders, but my gym does not have one.
That guy in the pic has 3 plates a side or aprox 315lbs. If your front squatting that much cool. But since you don't have your form down yet, I doubt you should be.
Og.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
I too try to get my elbows straight out (a lot higher than the guy pictured using the oly style grip).
Doing that rests the bar more across my clavicles and top of my shoulder and not the delts b/c my wrists don't hinge back far enough to rest the bar on the delts which would be vastly more comfortable.
Well, I mentioned the pad because in an earlier post I had said that it hurts for me to rest it in a cross-armed fashion, so the pad would help that.
And yes, bushDocda, that's exactly what I was referring to; I think I'll start stretching my wrists/forearms more and see if I can't increase that flexibility.
Tomorrow when I hit the gym, I'll practice some of the things discussed in this thread and see what comes of it. I don't actually do this exercise until Thursday, but tomorrow I'll just see where I can rest the bar comfortably.
Again, I appreciate the help here, it's obviously difficult to analyze and correct a problem with absolutely no visual aides.
My guess would be that your forearms and wrists aren't as flexible as they could be. That's one of my problems. As a lefty baseball player, my left forearm and wrist is pretty flexible, but the right one is pretty tight. Try stretching out your forearms regularly to get more flexibility. Then, it should be easier to front squat.
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I ran into the one O lifting lady at my gym last night and had her critique my front squat.
At lower weights, I was easily able to hold it properly along the delts with the wrist hinge and minimal discomfort. As I progressed up, around 155 the weight started forcing my chest forward, making the bar and me want to go forward, leading me to force the bar back/up further on my shoulders to stay balanced, and that is where the real discomfort comes for me.
So it looks like it is really again a matter of form, core strength, keeping the chest up, the shoulders back and down.
Originally posted by Ogedei: So first things first.
I find it strange that you can't get your arms up like that. I'm pretty far from being Mr. Flexible, but I have no issues with it.
I am assuming you can't do this?
Either way, assuming you aren't flexible to get your elbows up. Have your tried crossing you arms, like this?
Although the other squat variations will work, they are all variations of each other and don't hit everything exactly the same. The Front squat forces you to remain more upright. It will force better form even if you have to use light weight for it.
I would personally say if you have huge problems doing front squats it might be a good reason to go light and learn the form, all your squats will most likely benefit from it.
Og
Is there a difference between them except for the grip? Which one allows you to use the most weight?
Look at the pics, the second version is obviously allows the most weight
I think that is dave draper in the second pic...
Anyway, most people (me for sure) can handle higher loads with the bodybuilder grip (2nd pic) vs the olympic style, mainly due to wrist discomfort. I think both styles are pretty uncomfortable with the weight pulling you forward, kind of choking you and being supported primarily across the deltards.
yeah, maybe the second guy was just stronger [img]tongue.gif[/img]
So why would you use the oly style if the other one allows more weight?
Also, in the past I did them wrong. I used to do them with the oly style but with my wrists reversed. Do you understand? [img]smile.gif[/img]
Anyway, what's wrong with that?
Originally posted by igunick: yeah, maybe the second guy was just stronger [img]tongue.gif[/img]
So why would you use the oly style if the other one allows more weight?
Also, in the past I did them wrong. I used to do them with the oly style but with my wrists reversed. Do you understand? [img]smile.gif[/img]
Anyway, what's wrong with that?
I think it depends on what style you started with and/or what you are more comfortable with. I suppose another reason to use OLY style would be if you are OLY lifter.
I think the oly grip with your hands reversed (i think you meand that your palms are facing you like you were curling the bar) you would have less control if you ran into trouble and it be harder to bail BAIL OUT safely.
Also if you use the 'proper grip' then you can lift it over your head later.
You also metioned that it hurts to use cross arm. I assumed that it was supposed to hurt. I also use the cross arm and always end up with bruises where it rest on my shoulders. If I go to heavy (for me) then I can feel myself being pulled or leaning forwards. That is where my weakness lies, in the CORE. So I can front squatLEG wise much more than I can Core wise which means I go lighter on the Front squat than I would like to. But then again who wants a hernia? LOL
Hope that helps
Peter
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Peter
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Originally posted by igunick: yeah, maybe the second guy was just stronger [img]tongue.gif[/img]
So why would you use the oly style if the other one allows more weight?
The bar is supported on the shoulders and calvicle, the hands just balance the bar but you can do a no hands front squat if youre performing a front squat correctly. The grip doesnt allow for more weight.
The only reason to use an oly grip is if A) thats youre preference, or B) have a reason to use it like being an o-lifter or strongman.
Quote:
Also, in the past I did them wrong. I used to do them with the oly style but with my wrists reversed. Do you understand? [img]smile.gif[/img]
If your back squat is just as deep as your front squat, and you dont have any issues hindering you from back squatting (i.e. shoulder issues, heavily involved in a "shoulder related" sport like pitching, etc.) then you can get by fine with just doing back squats. The activiation in your legs will be the same. Your core however will experience a different (and in my opinion more significant) stress in a front squat.
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