parameters...

[chris_f]

Can someone tell me the volume parameters are for different goals?

for example...

strength only: x-y total reps per week
strength w/hypertrophy: a-b total reps per week
hypertrophy only: l-m total reps per week

thanks in advance [img]smile.gif[/img]

[GqArtguy]

How is this different from the CW set/rep bible thread (which you posted in)?

[Mahler]

Bill Hartman posted this a while back.

Rep Ranges
* 1RM to 3RM - neuromuscular strength
* 4RM to 6RM - maximum strength by stimulating muscle hypertrophy
* 6RM to 12RM - muscle size (hypertrophy) with moderate gains in strength (Fleck & Kraemer, 1996)
* 12RM to 20RM - muscle size and endurance

In Fitness & Friendship,
Mahler

[chris_f]

Originally posted by GqArtguy:
How is this different from the CW set/rep bible thread (which you posted in)?

that thread only mentions per workout, and not per work week, doesn't it?

[chris_f]

Mahler, thank you, but (and Gq also) here's what i'm looking for...


A total volume of X per muscle group, PER WEEK is ideal for hypertrophy and strength. That thread only lists per workout, and isn't really clear (at least to me).

[gobbla]

Goal--Maximal Strength w/Hypertrophy
Set/Rep Volume--24-36
Loading--80-90% of 1RM
Rest Between Sets--70-180 seconds
Sessions per Week per Muscle Group--2-4

Goal--Hypertrophy
Set/Rep Volume--36-50
Loading--70-80% of 1RM
Rest Between Sets--60-120 seconds
Sessions per Week per Muscle Group--2-4

Goal--Fat Loss
Set/Rep Volume--24-36
Loading--70-80% of 1RM
Rest Between Sets--60-90 seconds
Sessions per Week per Muscle Group--2-3

what part of it isn't clear?

[chris_f]

that's per workout per muscle group, no?

I'm looking for a total workout volume, both per workout and per week. 2-4 sessions per week, and an unspecified number of excercise per a workout gives you a LOT of variance in those parameters.

Rather than busting my balls, can some just give a straight answer?

[gobbla]

dude, not trying to bust your balls. just trying to get on the same page.

it's a window. there *isn't* a perfect #...well I reckon that there probibly is, but you're the only one that can find it.

The # of excersises isn't particularly relivent.

I understand that it's kinda wide open but that's because it's a canned answer vs specifically tailored for you and your conditioning level AND there's an aweful lot of ways to get there.

********
How often?

With *my* conditioning, I'm not advanced enough to train the same muscle groups 4x a week at that intensity...truth be told 3x would kick my ass...so 2x a week would be better *for me*.

24 or 36 reps per session?

I *personally* like increasing volume before intensity so something like: week 1 5x5, week 2 5x6, week three 5x7? Would suit me...and still fit the window just fine.

********

I'm sorry if it doesn't help. Really not trying to get on your case.

[chris_f]

Gobbla, sorry! It was late and I had my cranky pants on!!

So, 24-36 reps per muscle group per session, 2-4 sessions per week...

That's a range of 48-144 reps per muscle group per week!! Thats a huge amount of variance!

[gobbla]

no prob [img]smile.gif[/img] .

There's a big difference in training levels in between us and say...this guy




All the variance is why I don't even try to make my own program...it hurts my brain.

[chris_f]

haha i hear ya man! I just feel like sometimes Chad's programs are too heavy on the volume for some of us (like myself, for example). I love that he doesn't have you lift to failure, and I really like his theories and what not, but sometimes I feel the volume is just too much (coupled with short rest periods) for people like myself.

hmmm... thanks again!

[gobbla]

No argument what so ever for me on that one [img]smile.gif[/img] . Switching over to Chad's routine(s) have really re-enforced what an un-trained bitch I really am. I just did ABBH I-II and had much better results than I thought i would BUT instead of doing it 4x per week I pushed the 4th day off onto the next week...so essentially overall it fell into something like this.

Upperbody Push\Pull 30-50reps per session, 1-2x per week
Lower body 30-50 reps per session, 1-2x per week

So every week I was\am outside the "ideal" range by a workout for upper or lower body. But just like you say...there's no fucking way I could maintain 4x a week with the prescribed intensity.

Is it good to modify programs created by professionals...naw...we all know better. Do we do it anyway...yeah.

[chris_f]

I dunno though gobbla... Within reason, i think it IS a good thing.

Professionals know the science and the "why," but each person is conditioned and comes with a unique set of injuries, imbalances and needs. Slightly modifying a routine to meet your own needs better, while still leaving theory of it in place can be a good thing.

[ninja]

Chad also mentioned that you can do a 10x3 day, a 3x10 day and a speed day all in the same week.

I'll go dig up my notes and revise if I am wrong about something.

[gobbla]

Originally posted by sharkbait:
*Slightly* modifying to meet your own *needs* better...while still leaving theory of it in place can be a good thing

agreed. how's your S2B coming?

[GqArtguy]

Originally posted by sharkbait:
Gobbla, sorry! It was late and I had my cranky pants on!!

So, 24-36 reps per muscle group per session, 2-4 sessions per week...

That's a range of 48-144 reps per muscle group per week!! Thats a huge amount of variance!

This is why its better to think in terms of movement rather than muscle group. There is no need to really dwell on how many reps per muscle group your doing for the average lifter, esp if youre using compound movements.

I would stick to Mahler's post as a rule of thumb. I cant say that X amount of reps per week because its very dependent on your setup.

[sean]

How often?

With *my* conditioning, I'm not advanced enough to train the same muscle groups 4x a week at that intensity...truth be told 3x would kick my ass...so 2x a week would be better *for me*.
[/QB]

Isn't this backward though? As you become more advanced in lifting, you are able generate ever higher intensities. At some point, once your general conditioning hits a certain point, you will take longer to recover from training for the very reason that you are generating such high intensity, so the net result is you train less, not more.

[gobbla]

Originally posted by sean:

quote:

---

How often?

With *my* conditioning, I'm not advanced enough to train the same muscle groups 4x a week at that intensity...truth be told 3x would kick my ass...so 2x a week would be better *for me*.

Isn't this backward though? As you become more advanced in lifting, you are able generate ever higher intensities. At some point, once your general conditioning hits a certain point, you will take longer to recover from training for the very reason that you are generating such high intensity, so the net result is you train less, not more. [/QB][/quote]I really don't know to be honest. I know I've seen stories of strongmen and a decatholon guy that train a LOT.

Off hand it would depend on the goals of the individual probibly foremost. After that comes up the question of conditioning (how much does working at x% of intensity effect a person during\after a workout?) and then another for recovery (would the better condition recover faster?). Considering the goals again...at what intesity level would the person be lifting at vs how much would it effect a superior athelete to me...a superior couch potato? Where is the line?

athlete workout at 80% of 100 4x per week
nobody workout at 80% of 100 4x per week

my *guess* would be that the conditioning level and recovery abilities of the more trained trainee would overshadow the comparative level of damage done by the workout...but hell I don't know anything!