Not gaining... got any insights?

[Run-n-gun-rhit]

Ok guys a few questions here but a little background info. I'm trying to get upto 165 lbs, right now i'm stuck at 161. I just started taking creatine last wednesday, and I get about 3800 cals a day on a ~30p, ~30c, ~30 fat break down. (yeah i know that doens't add upto 100 but they each variate by about 3 or 4 points)

1.) - is it possible to gain muscle while bulking with out gaining fat? The reason I ask is that I believe I have gotten more cut, and my lifts had gone up but have leveled off here in the past week. Also the fact that I have not gained any weight since starting creatine despite drinking 1-1.5 gallons of water. And no i'm not a newbie.

2.) - am i getting enough carbs? The reason I ask is that even though i'm taking creatine I feel tired toward the end of my workouts. I don't know if i am getting enough... i'm just curious for some thoughts.

thanks

mike

[danishdynamite#90]

You dont necessarily see a "water-gain" that quickly on the creatine, depending on how exactly you take it.

As for LBM gain with no fat, - I guess it is possible, but youd have to be eating EXTREMELY clean with respect to carb & fat types, - thats at least what I have read from posters on other boards.

With respect to your plateau: When was the last time you took a week off ??

[Run-n-gun-rhit]

Danish,

My diet usually consists of the following:

7:15 -
2 cups cooked oatmeal
1 bananna
1 scoop whey powder
1 glass milk

9:30
1/4 cup of almond slices
4 tbs naddy pb
2 slices whole wheat bread w/crust
3oz tuna

12:00
5-6 oz oven roasted chicken from the deli
2 slices whole wheat bread
1 cup cottage cheese

2:30
.5 cup cottage cheese
.5 cup milk
1 scoop whey powder
2-3 tbs chocolate sauce for flava
1 banana or a couple kiwi

5:30 - 6:00
~8-9 oz - extra lean ground beef off of a george foreman
2 slices of whole wheat bread
1 cup cottage cheese

9:00 - 10:00
a remix of above to fill in cals to reach 3800

Drinks:
water - 1-1.5 gallons a day
milk - 3-6 cups a day
v-8 - 1-2 cups a day
grapejuice - 1-2 cups a day

As for how i'm taking creatine, i take one scoop in grape juice around 9:00 everynight or after my workout with some whey powder in grapejuice

My last breka was the end of april when i took a week off.

thanks

mike

[Bill Hartman]

Mike,

Post your last week of training (also your training age - how much consecutive training time without any long (months) breaks) so we can get an idea what you're doing in the gym.

Bill Hartman

PS: Where are you in Indiana?

[danishdynamite#90]

Diet looks clean to me. You might want to take a look at some of the ideas from these two articles by Lonnie Lowery

http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/253temp.jsp
http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/257temp.jsp

[Run-n-gun-rhit]

Last week:

Tuesday-may 13th
Flat bench -
1x160
6x160
1x185
6x165
1x195
6x170
1-1/3 Incline dumbell press
7x40
7x40
Dips(part a of superset)
8x(B+25)
7x(B+35)
5x(B+45)
Rope Pull down ( part b of superset)
10x60
10x60
8x60

Wednesday -
Squats -
4 x 185
3 x 205
2 x 215
4 x 195
3 x 215
2 x 225

Bulgarian Squats
5 x 25
5 x 30

1 - 1/3 Leg Press
10 x 180
10 x 250

Thursday - off
basketball (1 - 1/4 hours)

Friday -
Pullups -
1 x B+35
6 x B
1 x B+45
6 x B
1 x B+55
6 x B

Low cable rows -
8 x 180
7 x 204

Standing barbell curl - missed due to bicep hurting

Dumbell 21's - missed due to bicep hurting

Saturday - done all the rest of my routines once already, this one is the first time
Deadlifts-
4x 185
3x 195
2x 205
4x 195
3x 205
2x 215

Good Mornings
10x65
10x85

Leg curls -
10 x 90
9 x 100 Leg curls

I'm 21, My last week break was the last week in april, and i haven't had a longer break since the break i took from the last week of december and until the first two weeks of january.

thanks,

mike

[Run-n-gun-rhit]

I'm from connersville, going to school in terre haute. Where are you in indy?

mike

[Bill Hartman]

Hey Mike,

I'm in Carmel actually.

About your routine...

Stuff I like:
I like the 1-6 set up and your wave loading. Terrific for relative strength gains and some sarcomeric hypertrophy. Don't stay on it too long and make sure you follow with 1-2 weeks of medium intensity training NOT to failure. The delayed training effect may just pack on some pounds.

When you use intensive program designs like that you must watch your volume. For instance, I think your dips after the 1-6 benches may be a bit too stressful on your recovery capacity. Experiment by dropping the dips for a couple of workouts and see if your bench goes up.

Same deal with your leg presses after squats. 4-3-2 is gonna put you in the 85%+ range for 6 sets. That's a bunch. Experiment the same way by dropping the leg presses for a couple of workouts and keep detailed notes to assess response.

Stuff I question:

Wanna increase your squat by about 25-30 pounds in 2 weeks?

Your lower back is not recovering. 3 out of 4 training days you are loading your lower back. Your hitting squats hard. Your hitting deadlift hard. Both exercises use a lot of the same muscles. It's not a matter of energy recovery. That's easy. You're overloading your nervous system which takes as much a 5-7 times longer to recover.

Consider this...each week alternate which exercise you wave load. Week #1 Squats, light deads (and I mean easy 60-70% not to failure); week #2 light squats (just like deads on previous week), wave load deads.

Drop the Good Mornings on heavy dead day. It's overkill.

Make these adjustment and watch your squat go, go, go!

You're only as strong as your weakest link. If the back does not recover, your squat will suck and your deads will suck.

The way you're loading chins (outstanding by the way) don't train biceps. It will just cut into recovery again.

Miscellaneous:
Drop your reps on leg curls. You're getting into strength endurance there. <8 reps.

I'm sure you realize that BBall will cut into recovery. If you really enjoy it, keep playing. If the 4 pounds is a big deal to you drop it until you hit 165.

Try some restorative workouts with bands if you got them.

You may want to add some more healthy fats to your diet.

Overall, I really like your program. Good focus on trunk musculature. Just let that lower back get some neuro recovery, and I think you're gonna dig the results.

Hope that helps.

Bill Hartman

PS: If you're in Terre Haute, get in touch with Tony Reynolds at Progressive Sports Systems at TonyReynolds@PSSAthletics.com. He's pretty creative with program design.

[Run-n-gun-rhit]

Bill,

I have noticed that since I switched to the second phase, especially in chest that my tri's get very tired quickly and by dips I am usually very tired.

As far as the lower back, I have been always had a strong back but once again you pointed out something that I noticed through trial and error. I didn't have the rest day during the middle of the four day split one week, and noticed that my deads suffered accordingly.

You mention the leg presses, i find them quite fun actually and rather enjoy them for the sheer fact that they really help push me at the end of my quad workout.

I am rather surprised at my lifts though as during the first few weeks they all went up a bit due to undertrainign deads and squats in my previous workouts. During the workouts I ended up maxing as follows:

deads - 275
squats - 255
bench - 195 (wide grip)
pullups - B+55

I was rather curious as to what you mean by restorative workouts, maybe you have some more info on these. thanks for the help, i emailed tony,

mike

[Bill Hartman]

Mike,

Go to www.elitefts.com for info on restorative workouts. Dave Tate and Louie Simmons of Westside BB fame have some really good articles there. Based on reading some of Tony's programs, he has some of the same influences so it may be good to have some understanding if you're going to communicate with him.

Also do a search for articles by Dr. Mel Siff and join the supertraining group at Yahoo. There's an encyclopedia of info there concerning restoration.

In reference to my comments about recovery of your lower back, I was not implying that you were weak in your lower back, and I hope you didn't misunderstand (ah the limitations of typed communication). My concern is that you are limiting recovery by heavily stressing your nervous system too frequently. The way your program is set up would be like trying to train bench press at greater than 85% of your 1 RM twice a week. Initially you make gains because of the new stimulus but the cumulative neuro fatigue comes back and bites you in the ass very quickly stopping your progress on a dime.

That's also why I mentioned the restorative workouts to help promote better recovery.

Keep us all up to date on your progress and any changes you make/results.

Effort is Everything!

Bill

[Jean-Paul]

Bill,
Do you suggest doing these restorative workouts on alternating weeks, or are you assuming that one will work every major bodypart twice a week?

I know, this is lazy... I am going to follow your links and do some searches too. But if you have some suggestions as well, especially for a broken down old body like mine.

[Bill Hartman]

JP,
Restoration can be a daily thing. The loading is low with a focus on localized energy expenditure/blood flow and connective tissue development.

There should also be some stuff on t-mag by Tate.

I've got a bunch of info on restoration related to massage, temperature manipulation, etc. I'll put some up at later date.

Bill