Latley I have been leaving the gym and feel like I have a little too much gas left in the tank. I really know that my workouts aren't intense enough and I want to step it up. I mean I lift hard and heavy, but I just feel like I could be doing more.I decided to do more volume. Maybe that is what my body needs to start growing like I know it can. Anyways, I would like some input on this routine I put together. I feel that my legs are a strong point right now, but my upper body is lagging so I am gonna concenrtate more on upper body. I made a 4-day split; 2 upper body days and 2 lower body days.
My thinking is that on the first upper body day I would hit my push muscles(chest, shoulders, triceps) with heavy weights and use a horizonal emphasis and concentate on my pull(back, biceps) muscles by doing pulldown movements. The opposite is truein my other upper body day. I am gonna hit my pull muscles heavy with rowing movements and hit my push muscles lighter with vertical movements.
For lower body, like I said I am not doing as many exercises. First lower body day is quad emphasis and second lower body day is hip emphasis. I dont have squats and deadlifts as my first exercises on each day cus that is what I always do and I want to try something different. I am also adding some auxiliary work on these days as well.
Now that I explained where I am coming from, here is the routine(finally). Thanks for any input.
Upper body one:
-medium grip chin-ups 4x8
-flat DB bench press 6x4
-wide grip lat pulldowns 5x10
-weighted chest dips 5x5
-straight bar curls 5x10
-reverse grip pushdowns 4x6
Upper body two:
-incline BB press 5x10
-reverse grip bent over BB rows 6x4
-decline DB press 4x8
-DB shoulder press and curl 5x10
-wide-grip cable row 5x5
-skullcrushers 3x10
Originally posted by nbjjku: Does it go Up 1/Low 1/Up 2/Low 2?
And is it four days a week; or do you go Mon-Tue-Wed-Thur and then start on Friday?
If you want to get your upper body bigger, I would take a page from CW's book and train your push and pull muscles twice a week.
Not sure what you mean by up 1/low 1, etc
I am going to lift 4 days a week. My summer schedule is a little crazy so I dont have a fixed workout schedule. Just as long as I get 4 workouts in a 7 day period. However, I will never lift 3 days in a row.
How is this different from what you are currently doing? Obviously, you are smart to change things up (assuming that's what you are doing).
If you've been doing some kind of upper/lower split for a while, why not try a total body, 3 xper week program. If you want to focus more on upper than lower, you can do that w/ this type of program, by throwing in legs at the end of the workout.
In addition, you can alternate which exercises you hit first in the workout - back one day, chest the next. You can also throw in antagonistic muscle pairings, and cut down the rest b/w sets. Tons of variable at your disposal - w/ a 3xper week program, you can change the set/rep parameters every time you workout, and maintain great balance among all muscle groups.
Bubba Booey- I was thinking about doing a 3-day FB routine, but I chose not to cus it's the summer and I will have time to train basiclly when I want cus I don't have to worry about clases. Plus, I love being in the gym and I just cant see only training 3 days per week. Thanks for the good advice though.
I'm with you on the "being in the gym" part - it's great for me b/c I have 4 1/2 yr old twins, so want to spend as much time as I can w/ them. Plus, b/c I have four days a week to recover, I can kill myself on my three x per week lifting days, without any overtraining worries.
Otherwise, program looks pretty good - I would add some close-grip benches in there on day 1, upper, vs. the reverse grip pulldowns.
Also, instead of the shoulder press/curls on day 2, upper, why not standing shoulder press on its own, and throw in some hammer curls.
Originally posted by Bubba Booey: I'm with you on the "being in the gym" part - it's great for me b/c I have 4 1/2 yr old twins, so want to spend as much time as I can w/ them. Plus, b/c I have four days a week to recover, I can kill myself on my three x per week lifting days, without any overtraining worries.
Otherwise, program looks pretty good - I would add some close-grip benches in there on day 1, upper, vs. the reverse grip pulldowns.
Also, instead of the shoulder press/curls on day 2, upper, why not standing shoulder press on its own, and throw in some hammer curls.
Good luck.
LOL! Those were exactly my thoughts after reviewing the program. I did standing BB shoulder press for 3 weeks previously so I am gonna do seated DB shoulder press and just do a seperate exercise for biceps. Also, what do you think about doing weighted hypers instead of GHRs? I realized I havent done weighted hypers in a while so I figure it would be better.
Routine with the chagnes ***..
Upper body one:
-medium grip chin-ups 4x8
-flat DB bench press 6x4
-wide grip lat pulldowns 5x10
-weighted chest dips 5x5
-straight bar curls 5x10
-**flat CGBP 4x6**
Upper body two:
-incline BB press 5x10
-reverse grip bent over BB rows 6x4
-decline DB press 4x8
-**seated DB shoulder press 5x10**
-wide-grip cable row 5x5
-skullcrushers 3x10
-**standing DB curls 3x10**
I understand that you've been feeling like you've left something in the gym, but IMHO this routine simply adds volume when you need intensity. I would die if I tried to complete your upper body day 2 with any sort of challenging loads. 82 reps for the chest, sandwiched around 32 DB military presses? How will your triceps be able to handle that, let alone the skull crushers to follow?
You can make every set more intense by moving the weight closer to your 1RM. I would try this with your current routine before adding insane volume.
This sort of high volume routine may make it harder to add mass, as you are using a ton of calories during the workouts. I would also recommend a three day total body workout a la Bill Starr. Besides, its summer: you need to be outside not in the gym! [img]smile.gif[/img]
I'm actually more of an RDL fan for the hammies - but I definitely think GHRs are better than hypers - unfortunately, my current gym doesn't have a machine (or whatever you call the glute ham raise thing), and I don't feel like asking someone to kneel on my lower legs, and do them on the floor. Therefore, I just do a$$ to the ground squats like you, conventional deads, RDLs, and then throw in some front squats, good mornings and step-ups occasionally.
Originally posted by RipStone: Latley I have been leaving the gym and feel like I have a little too much gas left in the tank.
This is better than feeling completely trashed.
Quote:
I really know that my workouts aren't intense enough and I want to step it up. I mean I lift hard and heavy, but I just feel like I could be doing more.
Those two sentences are condradictory. Youre either going hard and heavy, giving it your all, or your half-assing.
Quote:
I decided to do more volume. Maybe that is what my body needs to start growing like I know it can.
If I had to choose between volume and intensity I would choose intensity. If you really feel like youre not getting enough volume, then spread the volume out over 5-6 days. If you really feel like your legs are fine, then do some upper body specialization, again spreading volume over 5-6 days if you dont like your current volume. Dont go nuts though and think that just because youre going 6 days a week that you can lift like you do if you were doing 3-4 days per week.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
This is just a personal addition to the topic of Volume in your training. I used to think I had to blast my body with a ton of reps per workout to get good hypertrophy results. What I have learned is this is not the case. I'll use my hypertrophy weak point as arms or biceps for example...I used to make sure I hit my biceps with at the least 30 repetitions of volume in a single movement and do three biceps movements a week along with all my back work, this worked and my arms grew.
Now days, I can hit them with 15-20 reps in a single movement and only do two biceps movements per week at the most along with my back work. That is a cut in 50-60 reps of volume away from my biceps and they're growing or maintaining just as well as ever if not better. The only difference is I'm lifting lower reps for arms than ever before, meaning the most weight to date also. So I agree with GQ, intensity (and technique) over volume. Technique because you can do a lot with different leverages and isometrics and/or time under tension for hypertrophy. Ultimately though Rip, you have to do what works best for you. Experience is the best teacher. What I've shared is my personal experience with my own body.
Good luck,
Nate
Note: Remember I am a person that never had luck with arm growth with lack of isolation training, my arms are a genetic weakness.
I understand that you've been feeling like you've left something in the gym, but IMHO this routine simply adds volume when you need intensity. I would die if I tried to complete your upper body day 2 with any sort of challenging loads. 82 reps for the chest, sandwiched around 32 DB military presses? How will your triceps be able to handle that, let alone the skull crushers to follow?
You can make every set more intense by moving the weight closer to your 1RM. I would try this with your current routine before adding insane volume.
This sort of high volume routine may make it harder to add mass, as you are using a ton of calories during the workouts. I would also recommend a three day total body workout a la Bill Starr. Besides, its summer: you need to be outside not in the gym! [img]smile.gif[/img]
Adam
After reading your comments as well as some of the others below your post I feel that you guys are right...too much volume. How do I make my workouts more intesnse though? I mean if I rest for shorter periods than I won't be able to lift as much the next set cus I will be too tired and if I dont lift as much I dont apply as optimal load to my muscles, thus they wont grow. Is that thinking incorrect? Other way I can lift more intensely?
BTW, this is my current routine, but I have been changing every 3 weeks. I was doing WS4SB but I wanted to take a break from max effort/repetition effort lifts for a while. I still wanna switch things up and some of you guys mentioned Bill Star routines...any links or idea? Thanks for all your help.
Day 1 - Quad emphasis, hip light
Squats 5x5
Bulgarian split squats 4x8
SLDL's 3x10
Leg press 3x10
Abs/calves
Day 2 - Vertical press horizontal pull emphasis
standing military presses 5x5
Bent over rows 4x8
Dumbbell chest incline presses (high incline) 4x8
Face Pulls 3x10
Hammer curls 3x10
forearms/traps
Day 3 - off
Day 4 - Hip emphasis quads light
Deadlift 5x5
Good mornings 4x8
lunges 3x10
GHRs 3x10
abs/calves
I've discovered for me personally it's easier to do a steady increase in volume and then drop the volume and up the intensity vs simply upping the intensity every 1-2 weeks.
Originally posted by Rev: Ultimately though Rip, you have to do what works best for you. Experience is the best teacher. What I've shared is my personal experience with my own body.
Yea, this is why part of me is leaning towards trying a high volume routine cus how am I supposed to know that is not what my body needs? Only way to tell is try and find out, but I dont wanna try something that is foolish either.
Originally posted by gobbla: I've discovered for me personally it's easier to do a steady increase in volume and then drop the volume and up the intensity vs simply upping the intensity every 1-2 weeks.
Here's my setup I made for myself I'll be trying soon, I got the ideas from Bill Starr and other powerlifting logs I've been following...
Day 1
Squat ME work up to 3
Romanian Deadlift 5 x 5
Military Press 3 x 5-8 <-- speed bench
Pull-Up 3 x 5-8
Abs 3 x 5-8
Arm Work
Day 3
Bench Press ME work up to 3
Chest-Support Row 5 x 5
Box Squat 3 x 5-8
Good Morning 3 x 5-8 <--speed pull
Abs 3 x 5-8
Cuff Work
Day 5
Deadlift ME work up to 3
T-Bar Row 5 x 5
Dumbbell Bench Press 3 x 5-8
Box Squat 3 x 5-8 <-- speed squat
Abs 3 x 5-8
Arm Work
As you can see I'm still in editing process with the arrows pointing out what I'll be changing on it. But I figured I'd show you the unedited version as you probably aren't as interested in speed work as I am right now.
Originally posted by RipStone: After reading your comments as well as some of the others below your post I feel that you guys are right...too much volume. How do I make my workouts more intesnse though? I mean if I rest for shorter periods than I won't be able to lift as much the next set cus I will be too tired and if I dont lift as much I dont apply as optimal load to my muscles, thus they wont grow. Is that thinking incorrect? Other way I can lift more intensely?
Define intensity. Are you talking about lifting more weight, increasing denisty (work done in a period of time), or are you seeking out a burn and soreness, because you wont get the last one after you train with lower rep for a while.
Now if you want to lift heavy then use lower reps. 5*5, 8*3, 7*4, whatever. There are tons of ways to progress: for example, say you have a setup and you do 7*3 the first week. Well you can do 8*3, the next week, and 9*3 the following, and set new PRs at another week of 7*3.
You could do 8*3 for a few weeks and try to use heavier weights or keep the (heavy) load constant and reduce your rest time by small (read: 5-10) seconds every week. This will increase the density of the workout and will definately make it more intense. Dont decrease the time so much that you cant perform the work, gradual changes are the name of the game.
A final version could be to cycle intense rep ranges. For example, my roomie asked me to help him cut. Well I put him on RRD and was doing 5*5 for 4 weeks. After that I changed it 10*3 for 4 weeks. Then he went to 15*2 for 4 weeks, and then deloaded for 4 wks at 5*5. He lost about 50lbs and got pretty damn strong and didnt change movements.
If you want to hit it frequently, take something like training for maximal size and play with the parameters a bit. Or You can do the Bill Starr routine and do an accumulation phase and then an intensification phase (see dual factor training at higher-faster-sports.com). Note that the fewer exercises you have, the easier it is to employ stuff like 10*3, etc. so you have to use some commonsense when applying variations to your setup.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
GQ- that really helps A LOT. I think I cam going to implement the progression technique you layed out in the second paragraph in your post. I will do this for my big 4 lifts(squat, BB bench, DB shoulder press, deadlift). I am going to re-write a routine tonight and post it up a little later.
Thanks everyone for there help, I truly appreciate it.
yep, it's the backbone to the abbh program that's the backbone to what I'm currently doing.
As written:
Day 1
Bench 10x3
Row 10x3
Day 2
Squats 5x10
Calf Raise 5x10
Day 4
Dips 5x10
Chinups 5x10
Day 5
Deadlift 10x3
Calf Raise 10x3
Each week increasing the 10x(_) by one rep. It's probibly too simple for most folks, but I like it alot. In theory you could change the 10x(_) to 2 simular excersises and do a 5x(_) in each if you had a burning desire to have more excersises, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's absolutely necissary.
Originally posted by gobbla: Each week increasing the 10x(_) by one rep. It's probibly too simple for most folks, but I like it alot.
This is the problem. Too many people want a complex design and overthink things wayyyyyyyyy too much. Hell, Ed Coan, one of the strongest deadlifters ever gets by on *gasp* linear periodization. This stuff doesnt havent to be as complicated as it is made out to be.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
quote:Originally posted by gobbla: Each week increasing the 10x(_) by one rep. It's probibly too simple for most folks, but I like it alot.
This is the problem. Too many people want a complex design and overthink things wayyyyyyyyy too much. Hell, Ed Coan, one of the strongest deadlifters ever gets by on *gasp* linear periodization. This stuff doesnt havent to be as complicated as it is made out to be. [/quote]Yah, I am slowly learning that less is more in the gym.
Originally posted by GqArtGuy: Hell, Ed Coan, one of the strongest deadlifters ever gets by on *gasp* linear periodization. This stuff doesnt havent to be as complicated as it is made out to be.
Exactly, people were getting strong way before the Russians started conjugate periodization and Louie Simmons started disseminating the gospel. For the vast majority of trainees the best way to elicit strength and size gains is the simple formula of eating tons of good food and adding iron to the bar every week. Just about any routine based around compound movements will be effective. Once the gains begin to slow or stop, it is time to tinker with the methods.
Quote:
Originally posted by RipStone: Yah, I am slowly learning that less is more in the gym.
Originally posted by GqArtGuy:
[qb]Exactly, people were getting strong way before the Russians started conjugate periodization and Louie Simmons started disseminating the gospel. For the vast majority of trainees the best way to elicit strength and size gains is the simple formula of eating tons of good food and adding iron to the bar every week. Just about any routine based around compound movements will be effective. Once the gains begin to slow or stop, it is time to tinker with the methods.
Yeah, I was following the exact same routine for about 8-10 weeks and just toyed a little with the density but mostly with the intensity. Saw straight gains every week.
__________________
"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Adam H.- see I dont even know conjugate or linear periodization is...I guess I have some reading to do [img]smile.gif[/img]
BTW, I am going on a small family trip for a long weekend so this morning I figured I'd just do a suto-full body workout since I was gonna be away from the gym for a few days. I kinda just tranined on insticnt without a plan and tried some different stuff. I didn't do a ton of legs since they where still a little sore from cardio yesterday, but for the first time I did squats to a bench and right now like an hour after my workout my glutes are so sore! But, squatting to a bench I felt like I wasn't going deep enough...
Anyways, thanks for all your guys help, I am learning so reallyu excited for this summer.
Linear Mode
