Machines are better than nothing?

[chris_f]

I know compound free weight excercises are best. But how many of you feel that using machines is better than doing nothing at all.

I repeatedly refer to free-weight excercises are "real excercises" around my house, and have tried encouraging my mom and dad to switch from machines to free-weights (under the supervision of a qualified trainer, of course).

Today, I mentioned to my mom that I love how this old guy (60's or 70's, maybe) does "real excercises" instead of the machines like most old people do. He benches, does chinups, and hell i've even seem him squat (just the bar, though).

My mom got mad. She said machines are real excercises, and I should be glad that her and my dad actually go to the gym. She said I should support that. I do, of course, but I'd like to see them do excercises that have carry-over into everyday life and will provide them with some type of real-world benefits.

So the question is: For my parents (age 54 and 56), are using the machines better than them doing nothing?

[asdubai]

Haha double posting on MH and JP eh? Haha.

Machines are definitely better than nothing.

[K-Court]

Hey Shark. I think you might be taking the wrong approach here. Rather than belittling your parents' efforts by referring to their exercises as something other than "real exercises", why not suggest they add in a "new exercise" to their routine. Start with something that would be a good addition to their existing routine. Maybe if they like the results, they will be encouraged to add even more "new exercises". Get away from the "better/worse" dichotomy and go with "different". Just my .02. P.S. I think it's awesome that your parents are getting to the gym at all. So many people their age are not willing to make that sort of commitment to fitness.

[chris_f]

k-court, yea i didn't say it belittle my parents. I was kind of referring to other people, and forget that they're on that type of routine.

My parents are leary about taking instruction from trainers as a result of a horrible meat-head trainer they had 2 years ago.

He wasn't encouraging, but more like, "come on push it! push it!" which is great for some people, but for a couple of 50 year olds just starting, not what they want to hear! He also used to tell them to do leg presses with lots of weight and stuff. He told my mom he's had people throw up on the leg press machine before.

Not so good, but it is kick ass that they actually work out!

[I. Kay]

Shark, machine exercises are real exercises too. [img]tongue.gif[/img]

For many people starting out (especially older people) I would say machine work is fine. It's not as optimal as free-weights with a good trainer, of course, but it usually makes the newbie more comfortable, and does strengthen muscles.

At such light weights that an older newbie would be using (and assuming they're not shooting to someday squat hundreds of pounds) then controlled machine work might be just what they need.

My dad hurt his back a few years ago (he's 54) and has been going to the gym to use the machines for a while now. He feels safer on the machines, and doesn't have the time to schedule a trainer. He and my mother have told me that he's stronger and more energetic, and has no exercise-related pain.

Just put it in perspective: What is a person exercising for? What are their goals? Not all of the 'rules' we throw at each other here always apply to the general public (not meant to sound condescending).

Not all 50+ people are like Mahler! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[dinabol]

I think you are referring to skill. motor skill is a function of the integration of patterns of use within the nervous system, it is a very complex subject. Skill is best developed by concentrated and repeated practice of those movements at which one wished to become more skillful. skill is very specific, and a person will only become more skillful at those movements that are practiced.

in relating weight training to skill, lifting free weights is more conducive to the development of skill, or the expression of newly acquired strength in an already existing skill. Free weights are free to move in any direction, and in working with them a person has to learn to balance them, keep them under control, and deal with the multidirectional forces they can produce. Machine weights require little or no balancing skills, and in most cases the weights produce forces in only one direction.

while there is probably little difference between free weights and machine weights with respect to development of tone, size and strength of muscles, free weights have the advantage toward the development of skillful expression of strength and power for sport situations.

[chris_f]

Dinabol...

thank you for your response but...

i know! I understand all that. That wasn't my question. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[K-Court]

Hey Shark. Just re-read my original post and thought the use of the word "belittle" was unfortunate. Sometimes, words come across differently than they're intended in this medium. I didn't mean to suggest you were intentionally belittling your parents - you wouldn't be that disrespectful. Just wanted to clear that up.

Anyway, I think you've got your answer. Machines are definitely better than nothing for your 'rents. Also, it is probably beneficial for them to do some free weights if they can be convinced to work them in.

Finally, the trainer they had sounds like a real dipsh*t. Have they thought about getting a new one more suited to their goals?

Cheers! K.

[chris_f]

k-court...

no harm no foul man!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Yea i got my answer, and my parents are so busy now that they don't even have the time to look for another trainer. Too bad. But like you said, better than nothing! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Mahler]

The human body is a machine.

Mahler

[dinabol]

The human body is not a machine. That is seperating mind from body or (dualism). If you subscribe to the idea that your body is a machine then you are removing emotion. Emotion is the essence of human life.

[Mahler]

A bit touchy today, are we?

Guess you didn't notice the smiley face.
Those emotions are kicking in, no doubt.

The human body, however, does illustrate many aspects of precision machine-ike function. Otherwise why do we imitate those functions in the machines that we use every day. The eye was truly the first camera. The ball joints in an automobile suspension are even copies of their more perfect human counterparts. To say that the body is a machine does not take away from the spritual or emotional. If you believe, as I do, that the body is the physical container for the more divine aspects of humanity, my position can be easily reconciled with yours.

Mahler

[chris_f]

the human body IS a machine... the mind is just the driver! [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Q.]

Originally posted by K-Court:
Hey Shark. I think you might be taking the wrong approach here. Rather than belittling your parents' efforts by referring to their exercises as something other than "real exercises", why not suggest they add in a "new exercise" to their routine. Start with something that would be a good addition to their existing routine. Maybe if they like the results, they will be encouraged to add even more "new exercises". Get away from the "better/worse" dichotomy and go with "different". Just my .02. P.S. I think it's awesome that your parents are getting to the gym at all. So many people their age are not willing to make that sort of commitment to fitness.

I LOVE free weights (see recent post) although I'm not doing 300 lbs squats yet like Mahler! However, I can't get my wife to do much resistance stuff at all, free weights or machines. I think she's coming around and will use machines but I think she's basically afraid of the free weights... afraid of looking stupid because she doesn't know quite what to do, afraid of looking like a 50-something trying to look 20, afraid of hurting herself! So, in the end, I think the above advice is pretty good. I may even use this approach myself. So, in my situation, I'm glad for her to do any kind of resistance work in addition to her aerobics that I can get her to do. In your case, I agree that you should be genuinely praising your folks for doing what they are doing but also encouraging them to try new things - possibly showing them? - when the opportunity arises! I do think something is better than nothing at all!