After I read this thread on rugged forums, http://www.ruggedmag.com/forums/inde...howtopic=8927, I started to get scared. Should I let this scare me? My biggest training goals are strength thus lifting heavy loads a lot. I enjoy lifting bodybuilding style too as thats how most of us started. I have had a lot of hypertrophy success using mixed compound and isolation movements on a one muscle group per week setup when I first started with higher repetitions while gaining strength. Basically I enjoy lifting weights period and I want strength more than anything, BUT I am not willing to risk joint health in the process . This article and particular thread is bothering me. Thoughts?
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That was just some biased bodybuilder trying to argue the point that bodybuilding is better than powerlifting because most powerlifters are fat, injured, weaklings? Don't wrap your thumb around the bar because you might exercise your wrists a little? I don't even understand that! He actually made the argument that bodybuilders are stronger than powerlifters. He was looking at the other guys in the shower. He couldn't determine that they had big guts and large rear-ends with their clothes on?
Injuries occur in all sports, but I personally believe that injuries are more athlete dependant than anything. Some athletes (in any sport) get injured much more frequently than otheres that go through the same riggors and training. Unless you are on the injury prone edge of the athletic spectrum, if you know your capabilities and don't lift like a dumb ass you will be fine. Reread the rest of the posts on that thread, don't some stupid biased post scare you.
Yeah that guy was obviously extremely bias. But there is truth behind heavy lifting being hard on joints...I just wonder to what extent one should be concerned and what measures can be taken.
I read this article, which is pretty heavily biased, but my question is:
"As I said earlier, you should never put your thumbs around the bar. When you do, in any exercise, you will bring your forearms into play."
I AM OK with putting other muscles into play, but I have always used a "monkey grip" (no thumb) when benching because I had been told that if you use your thumb the weight pusing between your thumb and index finger will cause damage to your hand (and you will be limited in the amount you can bench) Any truth to this?
Peter
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Peter
After all, diamonds are a girl's best friend…
Rev, running by itself produces more stress to knee than squatting heavily. An actual quad tendon requires 3370 pounds to tear, compare that to a 550lb squat which will apply 1800 lbs to the tendon. Now I ask you, how many football players tear tendons or cause damage to their joints in the weightroom?
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Originally posted by GqArtguy: Rev, running by itself produces more stress to knee than squatting heavily. An actual quad tendon requires 3370 pounds to tear, compare that to a 550lb squat which will apply 1800 lbs to the tendon. Now I ask you, how many football players tear tendons or cause damage to their joints in the weightroom?
Good news. But what was that middle aged guy talking about, how he isn't moving around so well now that he is 40?
quote:Originally posted by GqArtguy: Rev, running by itself produces more stress to knee than squatting heavily. An actual quad tendon requires 3370 pounds to tear, compare that to a 550lb squat which will apply 1800 lbs to the tendon. Now I ask you, how many football players tear tendons or cause damage to their joints in the weightroom?
Good news. But what was that middle aged guy talking about, how he isn't moving around so well now that he is 40? [/quote]You should go a Seniors O-lifting or PLing competition and see people 50+ years old outlifting anyone on this board.
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
I agree that the article is a bit ridiculous, but I share Rev's concern. I'm 21--is it realistic to think that I can lift heavy for the next 20 YEARS and not have major joint issues?
Originally posted by Jake: I agree that the article is a bit ridiculous, but I share Rev's concern. I'm 21--is it realistic to think that I can lift heavy for the next 20 YEARS and not have major joint issues?
Go with Rev to a Seniors competition.
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Lets not forget here guys, theres a difference between lifting heavy in a standard gym goers sense, and lifting heavy in a competitive powerlifting sense.
Originally posted by Jake: Sure, it's possible. But I would imagine those people are the exception rather than the rule?
The fact that youre on this board and lifting/eating intelligently already makes you the exception to the rule.
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Having joint issues myself I can say that lifting neither caused nor contributed to the initial injury and subsequent flair-ups.
Actually I've felt quite good when working up to heavier squat loads.
It's reasonable that you must understand the limits of your equipment and differentiate pain from an ache.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Originally posted by kuri: I would like to hear Hartman comment on this.
Having joint issues myself I can say that lifting neither caused nor contributed to the initial injury and subsequent flair-ups.
Actually I've felt quite good when working up to heavier squat loads.
It's reasonable that you must understand the limits of your equipment and differentiate pain from an ache.
Yeah its all good Jake.
Mahler deads 315, does he do that everyday? No. Should someone be maxing out everyday? No. Everything is dangerous if youre stupid about it. If you dont take time to learn form, know your limits, periodize your workouts, rest properly, get adequate nutrion then you are going to more than just messed up joints. But none of us (I hope) lift in a vacuum.
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"The strongest steel goes through the hottest fires."-Anonymous
"When you begin to believe nothing is heavy, all weights become light." -Rossbow
"Just remember, somewhere there is a little Chinese girl warming up with your max."-Jim Convroy
"It's a round hole, dammit. Everyone fits."--Anonymous Mod at Strengthmill
Strength training can strengthen cartilage and supportive soft-tissues, however, when taken to extremes of trying to get very big and very strong, it's easy to exceed the tolerance of the tissues. Notice I said the tolerance of the tissues not your ability to tolerate discomfort.
Wear n tear on joint structures and soft-tissues can begin without any symptoms. Once the degenerative process starts in the joints, it is ongoing and training can certainly contribute to an acceleration of the process. Ask any orthopedic surgeon who does shoulders, he'll tell you of the volumes of weight trained athletes in which he's had to excise (cut off) the ends of their clavicles, shave bone from acromions (acromioplasty), and "clean up" worn cartilage.
Everyone will experience it to some degree from minimal to where they don't even notice it to extremes where the pain and degeneration is crippling regardless of what activity you choose to pursue. The problem is that you don't know how you'll respond.
Some are born to be better a certain things and more tolerant to loading stress. Pushing to the limits and feeling good now is no guarantee that you will be painfree in the future. It is an unfortunate reality.
Dammit Bill--I was starting to feel better for a second there. So what do you mean when you say "pushing to the limits"? What's the level of risk with lifting heavy weights, assuming perfect form, no pain, and intelligent training protocols?
Thanks for your input Bill....and for making my nightmares a reality! No, this is very good info to know. I will definately be staying away from one rep maxes the mass majority of the time and staying with heavy 3-5 rep maxes when maxing out. I think that is one way a person could lessen risk.
I haven't done a 1RM for years now. Is there a reason? Other than bragging and machismo, what purpose does a 1 rep lift serve that I can't get from a 3-4 rep lift?
Not trying to be argumentative here, just curious about what the answer is. For me, the probability of injury far outweighs finding out what I can lift one time.
I agree that 1RMS don't do a whole lot that can't be accomplished by other means.
That said, from the perspective of joint health would doing sets of 3-4 be at all different than 1RMs?
And would lifting heavy be any more damaging to joints than say running? I know alot of runners who've had to hang up their shoes and find other means of exercise.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Oh, and has anyone had success with using Arnica gel on sore joints?
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Originally posted by kuri: I know alot of runners who've had to hang up their shoes and find other means of exercise.
[Kaiser raises hand in response]
Quote:
Originally posted by kuri: Oh, and has anyone had success with using Arnica gel on sore joints?
Glucosamine + Chondroitin here. Over 8 years now due to OA caused by surgical removal of meniscii in both knees. Very effective, although BryanC tells me there is no evidence that it has helped me.
Kaiser, or anyone what brand in particular do you use?
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Kuri, I use Osteo Bi-Flex, one of the few national brands that has USP manufacturing practices and has been independently verfiied to contain what is says it does.
You might want to check into MSM.... you can start at www.drtheo.com . Haven't read much positive about it.
. This article and particular thread is bothering me. Thoughts?
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