validity of what trainer said

[wingsfan]

i've been building routines for a friend of mine since september. she's really been seeing some great results but, hasn't lost a ton of weight (lost about 3 inches around her waist though). i've been periodizing her workout every 4 weeks. i even got her up to doing weights MWF, HIIT on TTH. i think her biggest problem is her nutrition but, i've kind of shyed away from really getting in it to much with her and just advised her to go see a nutritionist. but, on occasion when she gets frustrated about not dropping weight, i ask about her diet and she admits that it's not all that great and actually has a hard time "scheduling" her eating.

now, to the issue. she was in the gym yesterday and the personal trainer that works there came up to her. here's the e-mail she sent me:

He said I should not lift as much weight and increase my reps, because I
have a big frame and I will get big lifting heavier weights (b/c of my
frame size). He said guys who want to increase mass do 8-12 reps with
higher weight - and women with bigger frame sizes should stick to 15-20
reps and a bit lower weight. I AM getting big - arms, shoulders
increasing, waist decreasing. (He's probably taking note of this too,
and what I'm doing, because I've been going there for the past 7 months,
and I'm sure he's noting my progress- he's there all the time watching).
He says in terms of alternating the routine (told him I do a 4 week on,
one week off, then a different routine), he said, you'd be better suited
to change every week rotating the workouts monthly - so, in other words,
like this:
cycle 1 - week 1
cycle 2 - week 2
cycle 3 - week 3
cycle 4 - week 4
rest
cycle 1 - week 5
cycle 2 - week 6
etc.

I mean, this week's been really tough - it's that new cycle and I'm
phsically whipped at the end of the week - but by the end of the 4 week
cycle, the exercises become easier, and I'm not as fatigued, even though
I'm elevating the intensity. There's no doubt, I have gains with the
current routine and the setup we've got me on. Just some other
thoughts/ideas...


okay, me again. here's my concern. first, i checked this guy's credentials. he's a NSCA-CPT. I'm currently 2 months out from taking the CSCS. i'm a bit disappointed in the fact that this guy has a certification from the same organization that i'm (hopefully) going to get from as well. 15-20 reps for women? through all of my reading and studying, i've never heard such a thing.

i guess what i'm getting at is a little help/encouragement that i'm setting this girl on the right path. in other words, the rep range continuum is what it is and it is the same for both men and women. the other differences on size and build are more effected by the endocrine system, neural factors, nutrtion, genetics etc, rather than a straight up, "girls need to use less weight, more reps." in other words, i'm just disappointed that a NSCA-CPT would be giving out the old, "heavy weights for men with low reps, low weight for higher reps for women" line.

thanks for being a trooper if you made it through that whole thing......

[kmfisher]

I'm definitely no expert, but my guess is that her diet is poor. Has she tried tracking it in something like Fitday? I bet she is eating more than she realizes. Still, losing 3" off the waist is good and she's probably put on a good deal of muscle that will help prevent the fat from coming back. Have you had her take pictures to track her progress since September? 3" would be noticeable.

Also, from everything I've read (I'm a Joel Marion fan), women would want higher sets, with lower reps (6x5). As for cardio, I've read lots of debates with people arguing 65% MHR steady-state vs. HIIT. Maybe she should switch it up for a while and do some 45 min steady-state to see what it does?

[Charger]

My wife get's that kind of thing when she's at the gym. She's goes to an all-women's gym, so I told her to expect it. They want her to do higher reps, and spend more time walking or jogging on a treadmill. She started seriously training about a month ago, and hasn't been losing much weight, but she's looking better and she says she notices it when she puts on old pants that used to be tight. It can be tough encouraging a woman to excericese one way, when most of society is telling her different.

[youngliver]

I might agree up to a 12 rep but 20? No way. Basically because what she probably, and in most of my experience what women are working out for, is to lose the most weight and keep the weight off. A lower rep scheme (5-8) will build more strength, which men are looking for more than women (very generalized statement) but over 10-12 just doesn't ring true unless it meets specific goals in muscle endurance, which isn't what it seems she's after.

My honest read into the situation is she is hearing what she wants from this guy. She isn't seeing the weight drop because of her diet and this is an easy excuse. "See, its because I'm lifting heavier weights, not my diet." Three inches off the waist with a crappy diet is great. Maybe find a middle-ground? Get her up to a 10-12 so she feels she's getting more of a "women's" workout and tell her that if she really wants to see results make her promise to give you three weeks of a dedication to her diet so that she can see the difference her diet is making in her progress.

Maybe once she sees the difference, you can talk her into going back to your plan and she will be more inclined to watch her diet.

[GqArtguy]

Your "frame" is determine by your skeletal structure. Just because someone has a natural v-shape doesnt mean that he should train with higher reps. Your frame does affect your leverage and how you might want to go about things (ie sumo vs conventional deads).

Whether you gain size or lose weight is heavily diet related. Read Joel's lean, sexy, and hard articles because it goes into why low reps are great for fat loss. While higher reps are good for starting women because they need to develop the tendon strength and stability to lift but after that is done, she can start lifting heavily.

Id get her diet under control. This whole "i have a hard time scheduling meals" thing is a weak excuse.

[wingsfan]

thanks for the reassurance guys.

when i started her off, she didn't have any resistance training experience, so i basically had her on a few weeks of simply bodyweight exercises.

then moved her up to DBs, low intensity, high volume stuff, compound exercises. always kept various HIIT routines going for her.

then moved to heavier loads slowly and progressively. hell, i even had her do a 5x5 routine.

anyway, it really comes down to just having to hold her on for the ride. i keep telling her that she's gonna hear a lot of bad advice out there, she just needs to follow my workout and she'll be fine and ask questions when needed.

on the diet, yup, she needs work. she seems to do well with having it on a schedule. at least that's what i get with her attitudes with the workouts. so i think that's where i need to guide her on her food.

as for the advice on from the NCSA-CPT, what the hell book was he reading from????? i probably have close to the same material he's got and no where did i learn 15-20 reps.

thanks everyone.

[gettinhuge]

Tell her number one not to pay a trainer!!! Most gym's are pretty reputable and just watch out for bad advise. Most gym owners that are serious constantly update thier knowledge its all there basically for the asking, and remember what worked for someone else might not be right for her, need to experiment especially in the early stages of her workout to find what works for her.

[youngliver]

I know some people that train for endurance sports use the very high rep scheme but they are more interested in muscle endurance than size and strength, so it's not a bad scheme per se, it's just not what would best suit her needs IMO.

Personally, even when training for tri's, I still never go above 12 but that's because I still want to retain a decent amount of size/strength.

[GqArtguy]

So guide her on the food choices, otherwise her gains will stall and you will lose credibility.