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Old 02-15-2003, 10:51 PM   #1 (permalink)
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My question is, how many times a week should I train abs if I want to gain muscle there, 1 time or 2 times a week?

Also I'd like it if you gave me your opinion or critique on my new ab routine, thank you.

I do 3 exercises each time I train abs.

-- Crunches on decline bench (with weight on chest). * 3 sets 8-12 reps *

-- Leg raises (with resistance cables or dbells). * 3 sets 8-12 reps*

-- Side crunches (with resistance cables or dbells). * 2 sets on each side (total of 4 sets) of 8-12 reps *
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Old 02-16-2003, 12:39 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I would train abs more than once or twice a week if you want any results. Some people train them everyday, others train every other day. I usually try to train them on almost every workout. It also depends on your body too. I didn't get results from once or twice a week, but I get results training them to death

As for leg raises with dumbbells, it sounds good, but make sure to crunch your abs together when doing this exercise, otherwise, you are working more on your hip flexors. Ab muscles are meant to 'crunch' your body together, and to my knowledge, they consist of primarily fast twitch muscle fibers. So, it is a good idea with the weight

Maybe JP and Master Trainer can elaborate. My information has been getting rusty lately!
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Old 02-16-2003, 01:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Well your ab workout is decent I'd say, but I like variety in all my workouts, especially core workouts. For instance how often do you plan on doing this, say you do it 3 days a week for 3 weeks, that's 9 of the exact same days for your core!

Thier are many different ways to think of core training, but here are some guidelines I like. Keep in mind everyone in the strength training world just about disagrees on how to train these.

*always try to incorporate 2 at the minimum days per week.

*Always have moves for the forgotten muscles, rotational strength moves (sledge golf swings, gagne's cyclone, inclined russian twist, tornado medicine ball drills, and serratus muscles, one arm elevated pushups, side leg raises)

*Every once in a while make it really hurt. For example, spend a session if you can afford the time to just training core, it doesn't have to be long, but it has to be focused. I have some killer circuits that the next few days are gonna make my core sore!

*Don't overtrain the core. Who says they need to be trained every single day? (Lots of people [img]smile.gif[/img] ) What muscles do you train and never rest?

Hope that helps!
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Old 02-16-2003, 05:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I am a huge fan of Coach Davies' routines. Here is an article that he wrote concerning abs... Try some of these and lets get those ab STRONG! This is a big article, so I am going to post it in 2 parts.
-----------------------------------------------

Real Abs
Classical Core Conditioning
by Coach John Davies

Real Abs vs. TV Abs

"Develop a rippling midsection while watching TV!"
Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

"Now you can have rock hard abs in only minutes a day!"

No, you can't.

"It's fun and easy!"

Not if you're doing it right.

"Modern technology will help you get that ripped stomach you've always wanted!"

Um, no. And a ripped stomach sounds painful. Strong, visible abs are great, but a torn digestive organ? These people need an anatomy lesson.

"Tone up your abs with no effort!"
Do I even have to address that one?

With summer on the way, the media barrage is on with every other commercial on TV hawking various abdominal machines and quick fix solutions. Likewise, every magazine on the newsstand promises to teach you how to build a great six pack. And for some reason, they also seem to suggest that this can be done without the pain or discomfort of hard work.

Somewhat amused, I try to compare these magazine programs to my Renegade style of core training. Unfortunately, it's somewhat difficult to do because while my athletes possess a powerfully strong and aesthetically pleasing abdominal core, it's done not through easy movements, but through gut-wrenching hard work. The best way to put it is this:

If you want chiseled abs, it's time to bring out the jack-hammer!

A strong set of abs is arguably the cornerstone of all athletic functions as well as one of the most popular images of what it means to be fit. The problem is that most people approach ab training by devoting energy to endless "soft" training methodologies, using countless crunches and other movements of marginal impact. Sorry, but there are no shortcuts to great abs. If you want them, you need to develop core torso power that'll improve performance in every element of your day-to-day life, not to mention improve athletic performance.

Now, if all you want is the look of a hard midsection, fine. Combine this style of training with the right dietary habits and you'll get the look you're after. But as a nice side effect, you'll also develop a functional, injury proofing set of abs to go along with that "look."

Training the abdominal core properly takes a unique mixture of exercises and different training mediums. The scope of most training programs is far too close-minded. The complex cross-section of muscle type in the area is extraordinarily diverse. Therefore, maximal success is garnered with a wide selection of exercises. Within my plan of attack I utilize a vast array of movements and drills, some bodyweight-only and others weighted.

When I look at most of the so-called "abdominal core" programs, one element that's glaringly avoided by most (yet is paramount to success) is the development of rotational strength. This is the next step most T-mag readers need to take to really bring their abs up to the next level. For athletes today, rotational work will develop a torso to be proud of and will enhance virtually every game-related strength requirement.

Tough, Basic, and Effective

For those looking to fire up those abs, the "secret" lies not in the technology of today but back in the foundation of the iron game. As always, homage should be paid to the masters whose methods have unfortunately been lost to the present generation. If you want a strong, tough abdominal wall as well as a proven approach to enhancing your mass development, look to the past.

Our plan of attack will incorporate classical, basic lifts. Now when I say "basic," I should probably note that these lifts were popular when lifting had a more direct carryover to real world needs. Tiny waists borne of starvation did nothing if you had to bale hay or lift heavy objects. Lifts using the torso have become sadly outdated in our "pretty" gyms of today, yet nothing surpasses their developmental impact.

Renegade Training doesn't make use of cute ab crunch machines that you have to squeeze yourself into. Each of these exercises are punishing to say the least and can be performed in any gym setup, whether it be a commercial facility or, if you're like me, in a ratty old garage.

The movements I'll discuss surpass all of our "advancements" in training technology but were somehow laid extinct with the softening of the iron game. It's time to resurrect them and put those cute chrome machines on the endangered species list!


The Exercises

Bent Press — The bent press is one of great classic lifts made famous by iron legend Eugene Sandow. (In case you didn't know, the Mr. Olympia trophy is modeled after Sandow.) While I've included this lift in an article on torso training, it's impossible to find an area of the body that isn't punished during this movement. Your entire body will feel pulverized the next day!

The bent press can be performed with either a barbell, dumbbell or kettlebell. Each implement offers its own particular "feel" (read punishment). With the dumbbell you can handle a greater weight; with a barbell the movement of the bar becomes very taxing as you feel like you're trying to control a helicopter blade! You may want to start with a dumbbell and work your way up to a barbell.

To perform the bent press, you lift the weight with one hand over your head by slowly "corkscrewing" yourself underneath. It's extremely draining and the lifter needs to really concentrate when performing the movement. In the setup of the lift, position the feet roughly 18 inches apart with the foot on the side that you're holding the weight turned in slightly and the opposite foot turned approximately 90 degree to the side.

As the lift begins, the weight is held in such a fashion that it's directly under the hip and you basically turn into it and lower yourself under the bar. As you continue to corkscrew under the bar, your off side (left) knee bends forward and the right knee approaches the ground which assists in stabilizing the balance of the bar. With the arm completely extended, you simply drive off the hip and extend upward. Maintain eye contact with the weight throughout the lift.



This is a brutally hard movement that will cause you to discover a whole new "feel" to your core as well as help you develop a newfound respect for the lifters of the past. I'd suggest lower rep counts of three to five.


Windmill — This is a movement that looks simple but is oh-so-tough to perform. Hoist the weight above your head and maintain a tight and stable torso. With the weight in your right hand, position your feet roughly 18 to 24 inches apart. The right foot should be pointed in at approximately a 45-degree angle and the left foot turned out almost at a 90-degree angle.

Keeping the right leg locked straight and the left leg slightly bent, lower yourself slowly until you touch your left hand to the ground. Keep your eyes on the weight at all times and concentrate intensely. From the base of the lift, squeeze your abs and glutes tight as you lift in precisely the same angle of descent. A very effective rep range for the windmill is five to six.

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Old 02-16-2003, 05:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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REAL ABS, continued
by John Davies

Side Press — This movement seems very similar to the windmill but you'll quickly note its powerhouse impact on your shoulder and upper lat development as well as the obliques. With the weight in your right hand, position your feet roughly 18 to 24 inches apart. The right foot should be pointed in at approximately a 45-degree angle and the left foot should be slightly in front of the right and turned out to help balance.

As you begin to bend to the left side, simultaneously lift the weight until completely outstretched. The weight will be slightly on your left side. As you lower the weight down, follow the precise pattern of movement in reverse with a taut upper back, abs, and glutes. Perform five to six reps.




Full Contact Twist — This is an extremely simple movement that has some tremendous sport specific carryover for athletes in need of rotational work. There are a few variations of this lift and I prefer using one with more of a full hip turn.

Place one end of a barbell in a corner and grasp the other end with your left hand pronated (overhand) and right hand supinated (underhand). Pull the bar up using the torso and hips and square up completely to the wall. In this manner, movement is generated with a simultaneous pull of the torso and hip drive.

Reps should be kept low (around six) and I'd suggest not to advance with the weight too fast as you'll want to make sure your body is working in harmonious fashion and not simply pulling across with your arms.




Saxon Side Bend — To the credit of the great Arthur Saxon, this is simply one of the finest core movements you can perform. This is a humbling movement that'll have you second guessing preconceived concepts of strength.

With feet spread roughly 18 inches apart and pointed straight ahead, hold dumbbells above your head close together. With total control, bend to one side and repeat to opposite side. Range of motion will be very modest and you'll find this movement requires a much lighter weight than you'd expect. As you bend to the side, keep the torso tight and the weights close together. Keep rep count low as with the other lifts, generally using around six reps per side.




Program Design

When applying these movements to your training, you need to address the obvious total body demands this type of work places on the body. Most of these exercises were in their heyday when isolation movements had little value (not to mention, when nifty one-piece lifting outfits and handlebar moustaches were all the fashion rage). Consequently, careful planning needs to be shown when designing your program.

Weighted rotational core work is best performed twice per week in workouts approximately 72 hours apart. If you're following a three day split that employs multiple-joint movements such as cleans and snatches, it'll be fairly easy to add rotational work at opposite ends of your training week. The only caveat is that the more technically difficult bent press and side press should be performed right after the major focus lifts of your training session.

In the event your training focus is more toward bodybuilding, you'll need to structure this work so that it's performed with sufficient rest to your shoulders and back, in particular on the days before and after. Typically, exercises are rotated such that each of the first four exercises (bent press, side press, windmill and full contact twist) are performed once per week (two movements per workout) while Saxon side bends are done twice weekly.

I suggest bent presses be combined with windmills; the side press can be combined with the full contact twist. Perform two sets on each side along with two sets of the Saxon side bend for a total of ten sets per workout.

Here's an example bodybuilding split:

Monday: Saxon Side Bends

Tuesday: Bent Presses and Windmills

Wednesday:

Thursday: Saxon Side Bends

Friday: Side Presses and Full Contact Twist

Saturday:

Sunday:


This is intensely nasty and torturous work and without question, static flexibility work that emphasizes the trunk should be considered (see my Man of Steel article for info on that.)

Conclusion

As you can see, the future of ab training lies not in some new technology or fancy machine, but in the rich history of the iron game. All you have to do is look to the past and apply what you learn and you'll build an impenetrable abdominal wall!


Coach Davies can be found lurking at his site, RenegadeTraining.com , and is always available to answer questions by e-mail. He can be reached at CoachDavies@RenegadeTraining.c om. He's also just releasing his Renegade manifesto on training for football and is working on a series of sport conditioning books.

This article originally appeared in T-Mag
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Hey, thanks for these posts. I'll give those exercises a try, I have to change exercises at least each 4 weeks anyway, so I'm gonna try them next week.
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Old 02-17-2003, 06:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hey, thanks for these posts. I'll give those exercises a try, I have to change exercises at least each 4 weeks anyway, so I'm gonna try them next week. But as I can see some of those exercises are done once a week and some twice a week, so I see that strong abs don't need a very constant workout every day. Thanx JP. And also Josh, for convinving me about changing exercises. As for samurai, thanks for the tip, though I think my body reacts pretty good with 1-3 days a week so I don't plan on training abs too frequently each week.
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Old 05-05-2003, 10:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 05-06-2003, 01:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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ahh the dreaded ab training question.

First of all crunches on decline bench, Leg raises, Side crunches do not make a good core workout.

Infact it makes a crap disfunctional ab workout.

I dont ever do crunches and I have abs from hell!

A side crunch is about as functional as my ass. You need to train the muscle fibre doing its job. To lateral flex the trunk a whole load of other muscles help the obliques. Plus the fibres do not run from top to bottom. The best oblique and one of the best core exercises out there is a woodchop, however you wish to do it.
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Old 05-11-2003, 10:17 AM   #10 (permalink)
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If you truelly want to thicken your abs. Do some over head squat press. Basically, your in the deep squat position and you have the weight behind your neck and your doing behind the neck press. These are tough but they hit your abdominal functionally.
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Old 05-12-2003, 12:14 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Hoooorrraaayy!!!

Fitone and JP, you guys have hit the nail on the head!

Heavy overhead lifts, bent presses, Saxon sidebends, and all the old time lifts not to mention plain old heavy squats and deadlifts will do wonders for abdominal development, core strength, and stability.

Excellent!

Bill Hartman

PS: JP...makes you want to just burst the ol' swiss ball (JP winces in pain from the public back stabbing)
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