I have what my boyfriend calls a "deadlifter's body". My deadlift is high(185 is my 1RM), but my squat is at a standstill and hasn't increased at all in several months.
I have a typical ectomorph body-very long legs, short torso, etc. Could this be why I have such a hard time squatting?
I find my sticking point is at the bottom. I get "stuck in the hole", and when trying to get back up, my knees start to cave in and I start to tilt forward.
I've tried everything to get proper technique-keeping elbows tucked in, keeping chest high, lats tight, but it seems once I hit 100-105lbs, my form just goes to shit.
Here's my workout from my log today:
--First workout after deload. Wasn't as strong as I was hoping to be.
Squats were a major disappointment again.
Squats
warm up:
45x5
80x3
85x3
90x3
--------
100x5
100x5-F
100x4(form would've gone to shit if I tried another rep)
95x4
Split squats
95x8x2(each leg)
What the fuck, how can I use the same weight for EIGHT reps, when I can't even get 5 good reps with the squat? My body's fucked.
I thought maybe doing box squats will help re-train the movement for me, and help me get out of the hole? I have no idea, but it definitely helps me stay more conscious about my form, especially when getting back up from the bottom position.
This seems to be my biggest problem. I get down, and then I don't know..maybe my glutes are weak, but my knees cave, I tilt forward and it's ruined. I've tried all the techniques-keeping elbows tucked in, pushing head down(driving it into the bar), making sure to keep my chest up, my upper back tight...nothing helps! I cannot, for the life of me, get past 100lbs for 4-5 reps! I do use higher weight, even then, I can only get 2-3 proper reps.
WHAT THE FUCK. Seriously.
What do you guys think about using box squats exclusively for the next little bit? Would that help?
I don't have any advice for you....but tons of sympathy. Because I'm right there with you. I'm proud of my deadlift numbers, relative to the amount of time that I've been training. But, I'm down right embarrased about my squat numbers. And yes I'm sure that much of it has to do with your build. I have a similar build with long legs and a short torso.
Just throwing out random ideas, because I'm a noob as well and have similar problems when the weight starts to get even slightly heavy (actually my lifts are only slightly higher than yours, and I weigh much more than you). When you start pitching forward, do you almost end up performing a good morning to get the weight up?
- pichting forward ususally means the weight is going too far over your toes. working on keeping weight on midfoot or heels. May require flexibility work just to ensure you can get back and deep enough. the squat rx vids on youtube are pretty good.
- do you know if your lower back is rounding at the bottom?
- knees caving may be a sign of weak abducters. Besides focusing on pushing them apart at lower weights (which rippetoe recommends), consider some hip activation exercises beforehand.
to add on what rhino said, don't forget glute activation as well. Squeezing the glutes is important to keep your knees align with your toes. You squat down using your butt and quads. basicially, focus on bending from the knees and fire the quads and the glutes and you will be okay. deadlift is different from a squat because you push your hips out in a deadlift and on your heels.
And just to make sure there's no misunderstanding, "keeping knees aligned with toes" doesn't mean keeping the toes pointed straight ahead. Someone aiming parallel or below is going to have the toes at a 30 degrees out, give or take depending on stance, hips, etc.
to add on what rhino said, don't forget glute activation as well. Squeezing the glutes is important to keep your knees align with your toes. You squat down using your butt and quads. basicially, focus on bending from the knees and fire the quads and the glutes and you will be okay. deadlift is different from a squat because you push your hips out in a deadlift and on your heels.
Please don't ever teach anyone how to squat.
"Focus on bending from the knees" is not a cue that will have a good effect for 99.9% of people attempting to squat.
And there's little reason to focus on the fine points of technique when 1) we've seen no video and 2) she's got other issues that are far more likely to be affecting her squat strength.
One of the first things you'll notice after dropping a good bit of weight is that your squat (and usually bench) strength will take a hit. Body mass is leverage. Which is something star needs to keep in mind.
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Powerman-Haven't dropped any weight; I've been around this weight for the past 3-4 years though.
Have cut back significantly on my cardio the past few months, so that's no longer a problem. I definitely was overdoing it a few months ago, but have got things in check and am doing everything to take my recovery into account.
I definitely eat enough(probably more than enough for someone my size). I eat approximately 2000 calories a day.
Is it true that you can only make so many strength gains at a certain weight, and after that, you must add weight/muscle mass to progress? I have gained a bit of weight from the decrease in cardio, but no change in strength, so I may have to take that into consideration.
Is it true that you can only make so many strength gains at a certain weight, and after that, you must add weight/muscle mass to progress? I have gained a bit of weight from the decrease in cardio, but no change in strength, so I may have to take that into consideration.
Pretty much. Neural efficiency/technique can go a long way, but there's only so much you can do with a given amount of muscle.
There's an optimal muscle mass for any activity, and it just happens that for brute strength that optimal amount tends to be "as much as you can build". If you've got a smaller, lankier frame then squatting is going to be harder than somebody more filled out.
Squat leverages even respond to water retention/bloat and just being fat. There's a very high correlation in body mass (not just LBM) and squat strength.
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to add on what rhino said, don't forget glute activation as well.
you do know that glute activation is not the answer to everyone's problems, right?
Quote:
Squeezing the glutes is important to keep your knees align with your toes. You squat down using your butt and quads. basicially, focus on bending from the knees and fire the quads and the glutes and you will be okay.
this is wrong.
Quote:
deadlift is different from a squat because you push your hips out in a deadlift and on your heels.
yea, i guess you don't want to be on your heels on a squat. Staying on your toes is much better.
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Have cut back significantly on my cardio the past few months, so that's no longer a problem. I definitely was overdoing it a few months ago, but have got things in check and am doing everything to take my recovery into account..
yet you are doing multiple exercises per day to what looks like failure and still wanting progress
I've never quiet understood why this is the case. Strength gains, from my understanding, have to do with the nervous system being able to recruit more motor units. But I've always read people saying you need to be in a caloric surplus to gain strength.
Reading your later posts, it seems you mean eat more for hypertrophy, which then can help you get stronger. Is this the case? Or is a caloric surplus somehow directly linked to strength gains?
Not sure if I'm making any sense!
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Food also equals energy. If you're "hungry," you're not at or near full strength. In the beginning, when your body doesn't know how to lift, you're getting stronger despite the lack of food, once you hit a certain point, you need enough energy to lift with good intensity AND recover so you can lift hard again next time. Repeated work gets you stronger, too.
I think box squats are still going to be useful if correct form is an issue, I know box squats have helped my squat form as they teach you to sit back and squat more with your hips/glutues. I use them to teach new lifters how to squat, progress from full box squat -> touch and go box squat -> free squat.. Ive found this works well for most.
Going by your split squat and box squat numbers I imagine that your technique needs some work. As pmdl said without video its useless, but some things to consider are bar position, stance width, keeping arch in back while in the hole, and keeping your air.
I've never quiet understood why this is the case. Strength gains, from my understanding, have to do with the nervous system being able to recruit more motor units. But I've always read people saying you need to be in a caloric surplus to gain strength.
Reading your later posts, it seems you mean eat more for hypertrophy, which then can help you get stronger. Is this the case? Or is a caloric surplus somehow directly linked to strength gains?
Not sure if I'm making any sense!
OK, I've been wondering the same thing. Rather than take away from this thread I'm going to make a new one specific to this issue.
I've never quiet understood why this is the case. Strength gains, from my understanding, have to do with the nervous system being able to recruit more motor units. But I've always read people saying you need to be in a caloric surplus to gain strength.
The nervous system is the switch and the wiring that turns on the light bulb.
Strength training as you've described is about maximizing the efficiency between the switch and the bulb, and maximizing the efficiency of the bulb itself.
What creates more light? The super-efficient "green" light bulb in your lamp, or a stadium full of inefficient flood lights?
Quote:
Reading your later posts, it seems you mean eat more for hypertrophy, which then can help you get stronger. Is this the case? Or is a caloric surplus somehow directly linked to strength gains?
It is about eating more for hypertrophy, but it's also about absolute leverages. The squat is an exercise that's very dependent on mechanics, regardless of the strength levels of the component muscles.
This is all anecdote, mind you, but bigger always seems to equate to a better squat.
For that reason, not eating enough and being underweight to begin with tends to be very sub-optimal for improving the squat.
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Frustrating squat problem
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