I've decided to design a new workout plan and FINALLY try and get my diet dialed in. I've ballooned up from 235 to 265 (6'1" is height) in the last year (originally 320) however my bodyfat % has roughly stayed the same and my strength has increased quite a bit (still, no EXCUSES). I'm looking to mainly lose some weight at this point obviously mainly because the scale is simply way too high and I will be in California during the second half of August so to lose a bit of weight for the beach would be nice. At this point, I would like to lose weight as quickly as possible with AT LEAST maintaining my strength levels if not getting PRs on a regular basis (which will be difficult).
Basically, I chose to train all my body parts twice a week (1 day rest between each workout) in a Chest/Back/Shoulder and Legs/Arms split. On most exercises, I will be ramping up to a top set of roughly 4-8 reps depending on the exercise (most of the time it will be 4-6). For example, say I'm doing Bench Press as my first exercises of the day; I'd do a set of 15, a set of 12, a set of 8, a set of 7, then max out with a set of 5 and call it quits with that exercise. It will never obviously be a precise pre-planned number of reps but basically I will start light for most exercises and end with going as heavy as possible (in the 4-8 rep range). I plan to go to failure on certain sets but not frequently (1-2 sets per exercise at most).
For certain back exercises, I add an extra set of 10-12 with a light weight to improve my "mind-muscle connection" (for example, 45 seconds after my top set).
So, in my workout plan below, every exercise works this way unless specified to be straight sets in a certain range. Rest times will be dictated by how heavy the set is and how close to failure (or if I failed) I reached.
Letters are not used to denote supersets or alternating sets in this case, just to show the different "phases" of each workout.
Day 1: Chest/Back/Shoulder 1
A1. Flat DB Press
A2. One Arm DB Row
B1. Seated DB Overhead Press
B2. Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
C. Seated Cable Row: 3x8-10
Day 2: Legs/Arms 1
A1. Romanian Deadlifts
A2. Leg Press
B1. Stationary Lunges: 3x6-10
B2. Lying Leg Curls: 3x10-12
C1. Seated DB Curl
C2. DB Skull Crushers
Day 3: Chest/Back
A1. Decline Bench Press
A2. Chest Supported Row
B1. Incline DB Press
B2. Atlantis 45 degree Plate loaded Pulldown Machine (don't know what it's actually called)
Day 4: Legs/Arms 2
A1. Front Squat
A2. Romanian Deadlift
B. Leg Extension/Leg Curl Superset: 3x8-12
C1. Seated DB Curls
C2. CGBP (possibly smith machine)
Supplemental work (done on off days or after any of the days):
Face Pulls (2-4 sets of 10-12), Reverse Flye Machine (2-4 sets of 10-12), Plank, Side Plank, Crunches, Reverse Crunches, Quad/Hamstring stretches, small amounts of shoulder/chest stretches, possibly 2-3 sets lateral raises
Cardio: 3-4 10 minute HIIT sessions weekly
What do you guys think of this program? Do you think it will be too much volume for fat loss? Do you think as a training program it will be adequate in maintaining/gaining strength during a fat loss phase? What would you change, add, etc? Is their any design flaws? Thanks.
Last edited by Josh Rider : 07-06-2009 at 06:20 PM.
6 meals/snacks daily (I know doesn't really matter), each usually Protein + Carb, Protein + Fat, or Protein + Carb + Fat, or protein alone. Total calories daily between 2000-2500, 0.8-1.0g of protein per pound of body weight. I appreciate advice in this department too.
I would be surprised if it works for someone who is 6'1" and 265lbs...I mean it's possible. But to me it seems like anything under 2000 calories for someone his size is just a binge waiting to happen!
__________________ "Create like a God, Command like a King, and Work like a Slave"-Constantin Brancusi
I've decided to design a new workout plan and FINALLY try and get my diet dialed in. I've ballooned up from 235 to 265 (6'1" is height) in the last year (originally 320) however my bodyfat % has roughly stayed the same and my strength has increased quite a bit (still, no EXCUSES). I'm looking to mainly lose some weight at this point obviously mainly because the scale is simply way too high and I will be in California during the second half of August so to lose a bit of weight for the beach would be nice. At this point, I would like to lose weight as quickly as possible with AT LEAST maintaining my strength levels if not getting PRs on a regular basis (which will be difficult).
Basically, I chose to train all my body parts twice a week (1 day rest between each workout) in a Chest/Back/Shoulder and Legs/Arms split. On most exercises, I will be ramping up to a top set of roughly 4-8 reps depending on the exercise (most of the time it will be 4-6). For example, say I'm doing Bench Press as my first exercises of the day; I'd do a set of 15, a set of 12, a set of 8, a set of 7, then max out with a set of 5 and call it quits with that exercise. It will never obviously be a precise pre-planned number of reps but basically I will start light for most exercises and end with going as heavy as possible (in the 4-8 rep range). I plan to go to failure on certain sets but not frequently (1-2 sets per exercise at most).
For certain back exercises, I add an extra set of 10-12 with a light weight to improve my "mind-muscle connection" (for example, 45 seconds after my top set).
So, in my workout plan below, every exercise works this way unless specified to be straight sets in a certain range. Rest times will be dictated by how heavy the set is and how close to failure (or if I failed) I reached.
Letters are not used to denote supersets or alternating sets in this case, just to show the different "phases" of each workout.
Day 1: Chest/Back/Shoulder 1
A1. Flat DB Press
A2. One Arm DB Row
B1. Seated DB Overhead Press
B2. Wide Grip Lat Pulldown
C. Seated Cable Row: 3x8-10
Day 2: Legs/Arms 1
A1. Romanian Deadlifts
A2. Leg Press
B1. Stationary Lunges: 3x6-10
B2. Lying Leg Curls: 3x10-12
C1. Seated DB Curl
C2. DB Skull Crushers
Day 3: Chest/Back
A1. Decline Bench Press
A2. Chest Supported Row
B1. Incline DB Press
B2. Atlantis 45 degree Plate loaded Pulldown Machine (don't know what it's actually called)
Day 4: Legs/Arms 2
A1. Front Squat
A2. Romanian Deadlift
B. Leg Extension/Leg Curl Superset: 3x8-12
C1. Seated DB Curls
C2. CGBP (possibly smith machine)
Supplemental work (done on off days or after any of the days):
Face Pulls (2-4 sets of 10-12), Reverse Flye Machine (2-4 sets of 10-12), Plank, Side Plank, Crunches, Reverse Crunches, Quad/Hamstring stretches, small amounts of shoulder/chest stretches, possibly 2-3 sets lateral raises
Cardio: 3-4 10 minute HIIT sessions weekly
What do you guys think of this program? Do you think it will be too much volume for fat loss? Do you think as a training program it will be adequate in maintaining/gaining strength during a fat loss phase? What would you change, add, etc? Is their any design flaws? Thanks.
A few things I see:
1) I would not isolate your arms twice a week. Your arms are already getting worked hard with the heavy compound movements on the "Chest/Back" days.
2) A better idea for the rep scheme could be to do the following:
a) Perform 4 sets of 6 reps per exercise on day 1
b) Perform 2-3 sets of 12 reps per exercise on day 2
3) The Leg press and leg curl, in my opinion, are inferior leg movements. Some good choices are single-leg squats, bulgarian split squats, sumo deadlifts, and step-ups.
4) There are some well-balanced training routines tailored to fit your needs listed on one of the threads at the top of the "Training Discussion" forum index. You may want to take a look at them.
Why are you designing your own programs? Take a professional's advice and go buy New Rules of Lifting and follow it. You'll get much better results much quicker.
Forget trying to program for yourself, you'll only end up disappointed in the result. It's that simple.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
6 meals/snacks daily (I know doesn't really matter), each usually Protein + Carb, Protein + Fat, or Protein + Carb + Fat, or protein alone. Total calories daily between 2000-2500, 0.8-1.0g of protein per pound of body weight. I appreciate advice in this department too.
The training program matters far less than the diet when the goal is to lose weight. You need to put more thought into this.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
Why are you designing your own programs? Take a professional's advice and go buy New Rules of Lifting and follow it. You'll get much better results much quicker.
Forget trying to program for yourself, you'll only end up disappointed in the result. It's that simple.
I did the Break In (for 2 weeks) and Fat Loss I(for 1 month) in NROL (I bought the book like 8 months ago) only to have my strength levels (although not that high) stay the same while not losing weight because of lack of proper nutrition. Here, in my first week, I broke PRs in almost every lift. NROL was actually extremely dissapointing at least in my view, especially considering even though I did not have the proper nutrition, it probably gave me the least results out of ANY program I did in the last year (when I started training again...clearly a mess due to the weight gain...that's all nutrition). Would you recommend any other programs or ways to change mine? What are some of the design flaws in mine?
And ya OldGuy, the real problem for me is the diet aspect, mainly adhering to it (I have the knowledge though). Thanks for advice, Genius (I may consider changing the rep ranges and decreasing volume).
I did the Break In (for 2 weeks) and Fat Loss I(for 1 month) in NROL (I bought the book like 8 months ago) only to have my strength levels (although not that high) stay the same while not losing weight because of lack of proper nutrition.
So, you didn't lose much fat on the fatloss phase of NROL because of your diet.....and that is somehow the fault of NROL? Then two weeks into your program you're busting out new PR's. Did it ever occur to you that you might be busting out new PR's because of the adaptation that you made while doing NROL?
I'm not even scratching the surface of an intermediate lifter and see tons of issues with your program. I'd stick to something written by a professional.
If you're going to max out with a set of 5 then why are you doing sets of 15, 12, 8 etc. Those are nothing more than warmup sets and that's too many reps for warmups. I would guess that after doing all those reps your
"max out" sets would not be that at all.
__________________
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
One thing to consider is to just drink the metaphorical kool-aid and follow a specific diet plan by the letter. Maybe one of lyle mcdonald's or john berardi's or leigh peele's. It might help if compliance is an issue or if improvising gets you in trouble.
I'm not even scratching the surface of an intermediate lifter and see tons of issues with your program. I'd stick to something written by a professional.
Josh, why not just go with something simple like starting strength if you didn't like NROL. I don't know what you're lifts are like but you probably should be focusing on squats, bench, deadlift, rows and pullups (NROL). Without the foundation built, curls, skull crushers, etc. are only going to disappoint you. Go to the ExRx strength standards (Rippitoe) and compare you lifts. If you're not advanced in every category, then focus on those lifts. Once you hit advanced, then start adding on. Realize that the advanced category is meant for something the average Joe can achieve in 4 to 5 years of training.
Keep the training simple (NROL, starting strength for example) and get your nutrition in order.
I did the Break In (for 2 weeks) and Fat Loss I(for 1 month) in NROL (I bought the book like 8 months ago) only to have my strength levels (although not that high) stay the same while not losing weight because of lack of proper nutrition
You did a FAT LOSS program, not a strength program. Get your priorities straight - you want to lose fat? Do that fat loss program again while eating right.
It's not NROL but you that was the problem, so forget screwing around with your program.
__________________
Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
It's mostly all been mentioned already. While I'd like to give you a list I don't want it to come across as though I'm showing off in any way or being hypercritical. That isn't the goal. If I mention it its because I want to help not to tear down. But, you have to ask why would you set up a program where you're doing Bench Press and Rows two days of the week and then following it up with curls and kickbacks on the following day. It's not so much that you're doing this, as it is the thought process that would lead you to believe that this would be a good idea. It's the same thought process that led you to believe that doing a Fat Loss phase of NROL while having less than stellar dieting would lead to both fat loss and strength gains.
If your thought processes are leading you to these actions, then you're just not at the point where you should be designing your own programs. You would want to do alot more studying and reading to get to that point....but better yet...a lot more training to see what really does work. Try following a few programs that are suited to your primary goal, and following them to the letter. Record everything and then take look back at the end and see what you've learned.
Hey, I wanted to design my own programs from the beginning, and I did. Until I realized that I didn't know what I was doing and then started to take others advice. It wasn't until then that I started learning anything.
I presume this is from NROL. What jumps out at me is the smartly designed full body split whereby you superset non competing muscle groups with minimal rest periods. You've got 3 upper and 3 lower body movements and I'm willing to bet that there are 2 other full body days as well. Of course, this is not the only way to organize a program, but I'm not sure what is wrong with this. Is it the high reps?
Almost forgot to add that you training knee dominant, hip dominant and I think a multi-plane movement with the rotational lunges (Kuri could probably help out with that one).
It is Fat Loss I. I just don't like that the program (at least Fat Loss I) only calls for high reps with low volume. I feel like its like asking for strength levels to decrease while in a calorie deficit plus its not nearly as enjoyable as other types of training. I prefer something like Christian Thibaudeau's approach to fat loss; 2 days heavy lifting incorporating supersets and 2 days metabolic lifting (either circuits or metabolic pairings) or doing something like a 5x5 program and supplement it with some cardio/metabolic work. And, just to point out, it takes me on average like 45 minutes to complete my workouts, at most 1 hour.
Any nutritional approaches anyone would recommend?
It is Fat Loss I. I just don't like that the program (at least Fat Loss I) only calls for high reps with low volume. I feel like its like asking for strength levels to decrease while in a calorie deficit plus its not nearly as enjoyable as other types of training. I prefer something like Christian Thibaudeau's approach to fat loss; 2 days heavy lifting incorporating supersets and 2 days metabolic lifting (either circuits or metabolic pairings).
So do Thibaedeau's approach then... but don't criticize NROL just because it's not the type of workout your prefer. It works for lots of people, especially when they stay on track with their diet.
When you're trying to lose weight the training program that you're on is designed to do one thing; minimize or eliminate the loss of muscle mass. Thats it. The weight loss itself comes from your diet. That isn't to say that you can't make gains while in a deficit. People do it all the time. But, they are usually the very unconditioned.
In the last 16 or so months I've lost nearly 75lbs. It was all done through diet. Yes, I worked out hard. But, no number of bench presses was uver going to create a calorie deficit if I just continued to eat the same way that got me fat.
I learned the hard way that volume does not necessarily equate to greater fatloss. I tried doing a very intense 6 days, 7 hours per week program a while back only to confirm what people here had already told me. I didn't lose any extra weight but I sure wore myself out.
You say that fatloss is your goal, but you seem to really want to get bigger and stronger. And thats OK if thats your goal. But, you need to decide. If fatloss is the objective then do the behaviors that match the goal. There is no reason why you can't do a strength based program while losing weight, but don't expect to make huge gains in the program. It could happen but it would be a fortuitous accident. But, I would advise against a high-volume hypertrophy program as it is incongruent with your stated goals.
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