Yesterday, I tried to do overhead squats with just the bar. Wow, not happening. I haven't tried an exercise yet where I couldn't get reasonably close to performing the exercise.
Now, Overhead squats aren't something that I really need to be doing. I'm not trying out for an olympic weight lifting team, or anything. It was just something that I wanted to try.
I wasn't able to get any depth at all. I think that the issue was just that I didn't have the spinal stability to get down without over extending my thoracic spine. The funny thing is that I do a fair amount of planks, and can hold them for two minutes with good form. But, I've also noticed on Ab Rollouts that I have a hard time keeping my back from over extending. However, I don't have an issue with rounding over when squating or deadlifting. So, it seems like I have OK stability in one direction but not the opposite.
What advice do you have for me to improve this, or could the issue not be related at all?
I am a bit confused here. For most people OH squats are an issue of shoulder mobility + lower back to glutes relationship (stiff/weak or stretched/weak) + abdominal stability + hip flexibility and yet you are talking about thoracic stability (which is usually a mobile part of the spine). Could you shoot a video with or without the bar and post it?
Unfortunately, I don't have a way to shoot a video.
Perhaps I'm confused about where the issue really is. It wouldn't be the first time. During the eccentric portion of the lift it felt like my mid to upper back really wanted to bend backwards. Perhaps it is because I don't have the shoulder flexibility that I need, so the stress was being transfered to the spine.
The only other time I've felt this is when doing barbell rollouts. It is difficult for me to keep my spine from over extending. But, not down by the lower spine, more like the mid back just beneath the level of the shoulder blades. So, that should be one of the lower thoracic joints, but I don't know enough to say which one.
It could very well be that I'm lacking flexibility in some other area so the stress gets transfered there. But, thats where I feel the issue.
I've taken this to mean that I lack the ability to resist thoracic extension. Though, I do feel like I have a decent ability to resist spinal flexion (don't have any rounding on deadlifts) it seems like I'm lacking strength in the other direction. Does that make sense?
My lower body felt like it was saying, "We're not cooperating until you tell the shoulders and back to get thier act together." It was as if my hips said, "No!" They seemed to be on strike. They didn't want to let me go down. I don't know how else to describe it.
I never have issues with regular squats. My hip mobility could stand to improve, but it isn't stopping me from doing well on squats or deads.
I'm sure Galya will help you but I'm curious -
if you got into a deep (or normal) BW squat and then put your arms up overhead like for OHS - what would happen do you think? Have you tried?
I'm sure Galya will help you but I'm curious -
if you got into a deep (or normal) BW squat and then put your arms up overhead like for OHS - what would happen do you think? Have you tried?
I just did. That's pretty informative! If I go into a deep squat and then put my hands overhead I can't get my arms to vertical. They go out in front of me!
Work on thoracic mobility - the reason you can't get your hands overhead is likely your scapula are not able to tilt properly thus limiting shoulder mobility.
Check out Robertson and Hartman's material on Inside Out and their articles.
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Working "hard," or the perception of working hard, doesn't really mean anything. Sweating, vomiting, and breathing hard could be a good workout or a tropical disease kicking in.-Dan John
Work on thoracic mobility - the reason you can't get your hands overhead is likely your scapula are not able to tilt properly thus limiting shoulder mobility.
Check out Robertson and Hartman's material on Inside Out and their articles.
I'd say whether working on thoracic mobility or on ankle and hip mobility would depend on his trunk angle when he is in the bottom position. Maybe he can't get his arms perpendulicar to the floor because he is leaning too much forward in the bottom position? Which can be fixed by increasing ankle mobility so he can stay more upright in the hole.
I have to agree with both Chris and Karky. More often than not people who consider their back squat to be ok will be leaning too far forward in the bottom position, because of weak glutes or hamstrings or poor hip mobility.
I would say getting Inside Out is essential as is shooting a video so we can be any help at all.
Oh, there's no doubt that I have plenty of things that need to improve. But, I've had very few bumps along my road to fitness over the last 8 months or so. This was a nice wake up call. Come to think of it I do have trouble with Front Squats as well. Also, my max deadlift is far higher than my squats. Though, in fairness, I haven't been trying heavy squats as I don't have a spotter available to me right now. And, I'm in the process of aquiring/building a squat rack. So, perhaps the squats off of saw horses isn't a great indicator.
I've been paying more attention to hip, thoracic and ankle mobility over the last few months. Of course, it takes time for those things to improve.
Even though I'm not very tall (5'10") I have long legs and a short torso. So, getting my back upright in a squat position is a challenge. I am constantly aware of it. I'm very careful to stay as far back and on my heels as I can. But, if I get too upright....I'll end up on my back!
Thanks for the feedback. It's been good for me to see where my limitations are. As I stated, I have no need to do overhead squats, but I wanted to know where the issues lie so that I can fix them.
According to Rippetoe, the back angle isn't important per se - you will get the weight down and up successfully when the bar weight is over your midfoot - and your geometry will dictate the back angle at which that can occur.
What I did to test this, for me (and I'm no expert), is I took a broomstick as my bar and put it on my back. Then I went to a doorway and set up on one side with my midfoot just back from the doorjam in a normal squat stance. Then I squatted and if I whacked the door with the broomstick on the way down I knew I was wrong mechanically as that would be too far forward. YMMV.
Overhead Squats; Thoracic Stability?
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