Knowledge Gained from Retreat.

[DKing]

Originally posted by GqArtguy:

quote:

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Originally posted by DKing:
Its hard to say exactly what the #1 thing I learned was. I really like the part Bond mentioned about increasing in either load, amount of work, or using less time between sets. Its something a lot of us have read, but he just put it in a very simple way that made a lot of sense. I plan to use the density stuff pretty soon for a bit of hypertophy. It will be similar to the stuff GQ is doing in his log now.

Density work is the tits. Ive been using to bring up lagging area (in terms of size) while I focus mainly on strength. Its tough work though. [/quote]Oh I know its tough, I used an EDT approach when it came out and while its not the same, its similar in that it sucks but works well. I am pretty excited to start, I have a pretty cool plan laid out.

Danny

[Bill Hartman]

Originally posted by sharkbait:
(Sorry I keep asking questions, but I know i missed a great weekend and wanna learn what I can)

Jimbo: going with what you wrote, here's a dilemma i've been facing recently. I'm doing Scrawny to Brawny, which recommends very very very little cardio (to maximize type IIb growth). However, its not the summer. I LOVE rollerblading, rock climbing, mountain biking and swimming. With the exception of rock climbing, which can be done indoors year round, this is THE time of year to do all that stuff.

Does anyone know of how to allow for lots of fun outdoor cardio type stuff while still increasing your type IIb fibers?

I wouldn't worry about trying to increase type IIB fibers. The fastest way to do so is to take a few weeks off (IIB's are actually referred to as couch potatoe fibers because untrained folks have a tendency to have more IIB's than trained athletes). Most of the fiber conversion experienced during "physique" and strength training will be toward IIA conversion. It really won't affect your force output so strength levels really aren't affected.

Casual (in the sense of not a focused training mentality) activities (roller blading, rock climbing, swimming, etc.) most likely won't affect your strength measures unless you under-feed or significantly increase the volume of such exercise.

Don't sweat it. Have a great summer.

Bill

[Kaiser]

Originally posted by Bill Hartman:
I wouldn't worry about trying to increase type IIB fibers. The fastest way to do so is to take a few weeks off (IIB's are actually referred to as couch potatoe fibers because untrained folks have a tendency to have more IIB's than trained athletes). Most of the fiber conversion experienced during "physique" and strength training will be toward IIA conversion. It really won't affect your force output so strength levels really aren't affected.

Wow, exactly what Chad said at the retreat. Bill, I also heard amazing kudos for your depth and breadth of knowledge regarding exercise physiology. Guys, it seems Hartman may be one of the most knowledgeable people in the US, and we all know he is certainly the most helpful in terms of explaining difficult concepts to us laypeople.

Going to this retreat made me regret missing Bill at last year's retreat even more. Bill, if you are ever speaking to 'laypeople' at other events in the midwest, would you let us know?

PS: One point of knowledge gained at the retreat? JP is hospitable, almost to a fault, and one of the most gregarious and selflessly giving men I have ever met. Going to his retreat was thus enjoyable, and I learned a lot about fitness and clean eating. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Bill Hartman]

While your comment is flattering and appreciated, it is hardly true. Let's leave it as..."may be one of the most knowledgeable people on my block." To state otherwise would insult a great number of folks with a much greater intellect and knowledge base than I could ever hope to achieve.

I do plan to make every effort to get to next years retreat.

Bill

[Kaiser]

Oh yeah, Hartman's very humble too.

[Chad Waterbury]

Hey Guys,

Bill is absolutely correct regarding type IIB/X conversions. It seems very difficult to do, but I feel most studies have been insufficient in terms of parameter selections to induce such a change. If it does occur, it will probably take months/years of heavy load and fast training.

It might not have been clear during my presentation, but the purpose of focusing on type IIB/X fibers (the motor units, more specifically) is that all other fiber types will also be recruited. Remember when I drew the Force/MU graph? I stated that it was one of the most important graphs to understand. If you target the largest fibers, all other fibers will also be taxed since you can't recruit the largest fibers without recruiting all other fibers. That's why heavy and fast training is so important - it induces high-threshold MU recruitment that also taxes ALL other fiber types (MUs). Therefore, you'll likely get hypertrophy of ALL fibers when you aim to reach the top of the spectrum.

Hope this helps.

[cuvermodel]

Next year I'd rather fail all my classes than miss the retreat again...I was so pissed I put my effort into studying though and got A's on both of the finals I had that day!

[chris_f]

Ninja, Buk, Danny, Chad, Gq, and Bill, thanks for your responses! I really need to make next years retreat!!!! AHHH

So density training. For some reason i've never wanted to to do it, but i guess i'll have to give it a try sometime [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Keith S.]

Thanks for all your responses, I am really looking forward to next year's retreat!

It might not have been clear during my presentation, but the purpose of focusing on type IIB/X fibers (the motor units, more specifically) is that all other fiber types will also be recruited. Remember when I drew the Force/MU graph? I stated that it was one of the most important graphs to understand. If you target the largest fibers, all other fibers will also be taxed since you can't recruit the largest fibers without recruiting all other fibers. That's why heavy and fast training is so important - it induces high-threshold MU recruitment that also taxes ALL other fiber types (MUs). Therefore, you'll likely get hypertrophy of ALL fibers when you aim to reach the top of the spectrum.

Thanks Chad, this really cleared things up for me. I was still a little lost by the posts above.

[Newlife]

Guys, These posts are priceless.

Thanks for the reply's and keep it coming.

And I think it is safe to say we are all waiting to see the DVD!!!

[OldGuy]

Great thread. Thanks, Newlife, for starting it.

It is becoming painfully obvious I need to start reading some of Chad's articles.

[Jimbo]

Shark - Sorry if my post confused matters. Thanks to Chad for clearing things up. I just now got to see all these posts after mine.

I didn't mean to indicate in my post that all cardio was bad...but I did realize that my running long distances did nothing to recruit the muscle fibers that I want to concentrate on for the best muscle growth.

You mentioned mountain biking...and I seem to remember Chad...or someone pointing out that not all cardio is equal. It's really the amount of work that your muscles are doing that recruits the IIb/IIx muscle fibers. Doing sprints or HIIT on a bike can actually recruit these fibers. It's not just about heavy lifting...it's about how much work the muscles are performing. Or at least that's how I understood it.

Chad did a great job of keeping things on a simple level so our eyes wouldn't glaze over as he discussed the science behind it all...so if he simplified it...I KNOW that I'm over simplifying it even more. But I have a simple lil brain. Small sponge...and lots to try and soak in...

[Chris Correia]

Originally summarized by Bond:

7.Progression, choose one method each week: 7.Progression, choose one method each week:
a. Increase Load 2.5%-5%, usually 2.5%, though
b. Increase Density - shorten rest time by decreasing rest by 5 seconds each week
c. Increase Work in same amount of Time.

Re "C": Increase work meaning increasing reps/sets? If that happens, then the time is not the same; it will technically take longer (unless one decreases rest, thus essentially increasing density). I'm not challenging, just merely trying to make sure I understand.

[Buk]

Increase work by doing 6 sets of 3 then 6 sets of 4 then 6 sets of 5, resting for example 90 seconds. Total reps go from 18 to 30, total time barely changes. Lets assume 3 seconds per rep. That is 450 seconds of rest and 54 to 90 seconds of work. 504 seconds for 18 reps versus 540 seconds for 30 reps. I would consider that a similar amount of time(6%). But I also think you could drop 3 seconds off of the rest time, without a large "density" impact.

[Chris Correia]

Thanks, buk. That's what I figured, but just checking.

One more review & question:

It looks like for fat loss, one would/could do the following:

1. 2-3 workouts per week (leaning toward 2)
2. Work with 70-85% 1RM
3. Perform 24-32 reps per exercise (e.g. 4x6 -- which I like, BTW! [img]smile.gif[/img] ) (in fact, for fat loss, I would imagine doing 4x6, building up to 4x8 would be nice, so as not to train too heavy for too long while in caloric deficit.)
4. Keep workouts under 30 min, which seems like about 4-6 exercises at 4x6.

Now, what I'm wondering about are the WHYs for these parameters. I'm particularly curious about the "leaning toward 2 workouts per week. In general, I assume the general urpose of all of them is to stimulate the muscles sufficiently to maintain muscle, but to not over work them while in caloric deficit.

Any further explication of insight into the reasons for these parameters would be appreciated!

[DKing]

Chris, you pretty much nailed it. The idea of two workouts per week is that its enough to spare muscle loss and keep strength up but it won't tax the nervous system much. It will allow you to diet a bit better without being too burned out/sore.

The short sessions come for the same reasons. There are many benifits to training shorter amounts of time and there is no need to go about 30 minutes to get all of the benifits we are looking for.

One thing to keep in mind is that this is just the time spent weight lifting. Other time can be spend with some high intensity cardio, and even some lower intensity stuff mixed into the equation.

Danny

[kuri]

There are many benifits to training shorter amounts of time and there is no need to go about 30 minutes to get all of the benifits we are looking for.

You mean longer than 30 right?

Great info here on density training- thanks to all.

Was there discussion of active recovery strategies? How and when to mix in cardio work?

Kaiser, JP or others into cycling and such sports what was your understanding of how the above approaches can be integrated with your sports?