When I get a to my heavy weight, I put on a belt, and I feel like I'm possibly letting my back round out. Is it possible that I can do more weight if I do that? If so, I need to lower the weight and keep good technique. I practice technique in the mirror but when I put on the weight it's a different story. My hips definitely do not raise up first, and I don't feel like my upper back leans foward at all, yet it still feels like my back might slightly round as I put the weight up... at the top half of the lift. Honestly, it feels like the belt is pinching into my back, which can even feel like the bottom of my hips is tilting posteriorly. It feels like I'm rounding AND hyperextending. Maybe I'm just afraid to push it. I think I could do a lot more but my grip stops me, and I wanted to check with yall to see if I might be doing it wrong. I've read starting strength, but something does not feel perfect.
Any back pain? I would love to see a video but short of that I would say that you musn't let your lumber spine round but your thoracic spine can round a little. When you go really heavy you will feel like you are trying to be bent in half by the weight. How tall are you? I'm 6'2" which adds to the bent feeling.
You may want to go to Strenghtmill.com forums and post a video in Rip's Q &A thread since you have read his book .you might want to get advise from the source..
Any back pain? I would love to see a video but short of that I would say that you musn't let your lumber spine round but your thoracic spine can round a little. When you go really heavy you will feel like you are trying to be bent in half by the weight. How tall are you? I'm 6'2" which adds to the bent feeling.
I'm 6 foot. What do you mean feel like I'm being bent in half?
I feel like my lumbar region is completely in front of my pelvis when I get to the top half of the movement. I can't tell if it's the belt digging or if I'm hyper extending. You are right I need to post a video. And I'll go to the source good idea. Thanks yall.
are you keeping your head up? usually this helps many lower back rounding issues.
my low back is not rounded on a heavy pull, yet I do feel deadlifts in my low back, those muscles are working hard and are a big component of the lift.
try get a video.. even a cell phone video can help when you look at your own form.
The problem was: I was concentrating too much on lifting my back on the above knee cap portion of the deadlift, instead of bringing my hips forward.
If i concentrate on bringing the hips forward instead of just lifting it with my back, it really helps and feels more natural. IT really helps if I flex my glutes. I probably should have been doing that. I guess I read starting strength too fast lol.
I made same corrections with deadlift as well. Watching some of Mark Rippetoe's instructional videos on youtube I figured out I was standing a little too far behind the bar. I always make sure my scapula is in alignment to the bar and my arms are perfectly vertical, with the bar riding up my shins. That with more concentrating on the hip involvement makes it more natural and easier.
Deadlift is a great lower back exercise, keeping your back rigid without rounding it is what we're aiming for to workout the spine erector muscles to handle more weight on your back. Great ham and glute exercise too.
I made same corrections with deadlift as well. Watching some of Mark Rippetoe's instructional videos on youtube I figured out I was standing a little too far behind the bar. I always make sure my scapula is in alignment to the bar and my arms are perfectly vertical, with the bar riding up my shins. That with more concentrating on the hip involvement makes it more natural and easier.
Deadlift is a great lower back exercise, keeping your back rigid without rounding it is what we're aiming for to workout the spine erector muscles to handle more weight on your back. Great ham and glute exercise too.
that's awesome... i like how you can run the bar up your shins and deaden up the skin cells as well, which can be good for kicking trees and stuff
Haha, well I wear sweat pants so I don't really get that kind of conditioning. In any case it doesn't EXACTLY run up my shins but the bar is pretty damn close.
Lol. Really the only place it really ever bled through my pants was on the top of my knee. I think I had a scab there. I need to be careful while lowering it. Sometimes that feels harder than lifting the darn thing.
If you are getting scrapes on the shins then you probally getting hip ext. to early in the lift, or worse pulling from the back and not keeping lumbar curve . I think the hip ext. / drive should occur after the bar passes the knees . The pull from the floor is achieved by driving the floor away and knees extending.. Scabs above the knees would indicate just the oppisite where letting the knees bend early and squat the weight down too early
Yeah, all of those powerlifter idiots like Andy Bolton who scrapes his knees when pulling 1003 lbs doesn't have a fricking clue what he is doing...
Come on!
I find it very interesting that fitness oriented sites are chock full of 200 lbs pullers who are over-analyzing their form to the point of it being ridiculous.
Keep the bar close to your body. Don't jerk the weight from the floor, do more of a pushing squeeze. Beyond that, strive to keep your back in a safe position which you can tell by feel and then pull like crazy! Don't get overly worried about form or you will never reap the full benefits of the movement.
I find it very interesting that fitness oriented sites are chock full of 200 lbs pullers who are over-analyzing their form to the point of it being ridiculous.
Very unwise move to discount someone's knowledge because of how much they pull.
Quote:
Keep the bar close to your body. Don't jerk the weight from the floor, do more of a pushing squeeze. Beyond that, strive to keep your back in a safe position which you can tell by feel and then pull like crazy! Don't get overly worried about form or you will never reap the full benefits of the movement.
Paralysis by analysis...
A lot of people can't "tell by feel" what their back should be doing in a movement like a deadlift.
Sure, paralysis by analysis can hurt some people, but at the same time, when a lot of people try to go too far on the deadlift and have no idea what they're doing, give me the person who overanalyzes over the person who goes in and tries to pull like crazy without any other thought.
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Ill take the big puller who pulls like crazy everyday, perfect deadlift form is way overrated. The most common injury in deadlifting, is a biceps tear.
If you are getting scrapes on the shins then you probally getting hip ext. to early in the lift, or worse pulling from the back and not keeping lumbar curve . I think the hip ext. / drive should occur after the bar passes the knees . The pull from the floor is achieved by driving the floor away and knees extending.. Scabs above the knees would indicate just the oppisite where letting the knees bend early and squat the weight down too early
Im with chris on this, scraping the shins is fine. although some people should start the lift with the bar a few inches past their shins for better leverage.
Its actually very hard to loose your lumbar curve in a deadlift, the upperback will usually be the weak link and will round way before the lower back.
Most people who think they use 'perfect' form actually are not, they are using far to much legs at the bottom of the lift and starting with their hips way to low. It is a deadlift, not a squat.
Ill take the big puller who pulls like crazy everyday, perfect deadlift form is way overrated. The most common injury in deadlifting, is a biceps tear.
In a competition sense, when going for a one rep max, yes, then perfect form is overrated.
But for the people who aren't training to compete (or doing more reps than max lifts) form is more important.
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with 100% strict deadlift form, the amount of weight moved is so minimal you may as well take up yoga and get strength/size through that, deadlifting 225lbs for a full grown man (assume healthy and is not new to lifting) is going to do shit all for anything (unless your going for a million lbs of volume..).
Video some of your deadlift sets, I am almost positive you form will suffer during even very non maximal attempts. Upperback will round slightly, and you will stiff leg the pull (since most people are stronger pulling with a little higher hips). Nothing to worry about with this - it happens.
Most people in most gyms - dont deadlift heavy enough for any result. If my 135lbs girlfriend can pull well over 300, im pretty sure any man could.
I'll have to agree. I think there's the "important" parts of keeping form, and then "eh, is ok if it slides a bit" parts of keeping form. Inevitably, anything "heavy" rounds my upper back/shoulders some. It's impossible not to, my lower body is far stronger than my upper, and I AM holding the weight in front of me. But if I get all the main cues right, keep the lumbar safe, and don't squat the bar up, I count it as pretty good, rounding be damned.
with 100% strict deadlift form, the amount of weight moved is so minimal you may as well take up yoga and get strength/size through that, deadlifting 225lbs for a full grown man (assume healthy and is not new to lifting) is going to do shit all for anything (unless your going for a million lbs of volume..).
Video some of your deadlift sets, I am almost positive you form will suffer during even very non maximal attempts. Upperback will round slightly, and you will stiff leg the pull (since most people are stronger pulling with a little higher hips). Nothing to worry about with this - it happens.
Most people in most gyms - dont deadlift heavy enough for any result. If my 135lbs girlfriend can pull well over 300, im pretty sure any man could.
I think you are taking me too literally.
If I've got two pullers who pull the same weight (remember, I never said "big pullers with bad form") give me the person with the better form throughout. I realize that form breakdown occurs the heavier you go, but with 1RM equal, I think that most people would take the person who is better able to apply the form cues as they break down.
And my whole point was that I don't think that many people have enough proprioception to know what's bad or good naturally.
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As soon as I hit like 225 my I start using a higher hip pull and it really feels like my upper back rounds a bit because it seems like my back is pulling more than my hips are moving foward.
When i get to 275 apparently I look stiff and using just raw back strength (from an observer)
And then at 315 I just stop because I'm so slow in getting the weight up; I'm not exploding.
My mixed grip also starts to fail at 315.
I like what you said about it being a deadlift not a squat, but it feels better if my hips do the work at the last half of the movement.
Lol@ the knees... yea I know I was messing up. Heh ,but I like to scrape my shins. Muy thai baby!
Did 335 rack pulls from knees today and could really feel the difference between keeping my natural arch in the back versus letting all the extra compression happen as a result of letting my spine flex. So this is good! I figured it out and im on a roll. YES!>
focus on your glutes. do glute activation work before you deadlift. glute bridges, fire hydrants, bird dogs, etc. Get those glutes firing and your back and hamstrings will thank you. The reason I say hamstrings is because if the glutes are not firing right, the hamstrings want to take over and thats why a majority of runners and athletes get hamstring injuries because the glutes are not firing correctly and all the stress is on the hamstrings.
after you do your glute activation work, then try deadlifting and make sure you focus on getting the butt to stick out sitting back until the bar touches the ground and then come back up again. come back to us with how you feel and if you can do the exercise better including other exercises and everyday activity. even if you are not doing deadlifts for a session, still do glute activations as part of your warm up a long with scap push ups (push up plus) and wall slides to activate the serratus anterior and lower trapz muscles.
I worked with a friend and a classmate in the fitness center on glute activation work this fall semester. one of my friends that was squatting was not doing it right and I introduced her to glute bridges and then after she did glute bridges, she squatted and the exercise was much easier for her to do. also she was really sore the next day in her butt because it has been sleeping for who knows how long. You will be sore too! A classmate that I worked with (older lady) asked me to workout with her and since she started doing glute activation work, she was able to better in her swim classes and everyday activity. remember to squeeze those glutes hard when you do glute activation work!! Don't let those glutes fall asleep on you!!!
deadlifting 225lbs for a full grown man (assume healthy and is not new to lifting) is going to do shit all for anything
And this is based on you training how many people?
Your statement makes about as much sense as saying if someone can do 10 pullups then they there is no benefit from doing pullups anymore. I train a bunch of full grown men that don't pull more than 2 plates who's results prove you dead wrong.
Adam, take your time and work with good form. Your grip strength (and everything else) will improve in time. Be stupid and your progress will come to a screeching halt.
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Very unwise move to discount someone's knowledge because of how much they pull.
A lot of people can't "tell by feel" what their back should be doing in a movement like a deadlift.
Sure, paralysis by analysis can hurt some people, but at the same time, when a lot of people try to go too far on the deadlift and have no idea what they're doing, give me the person who overanalyzes over the person who goes in and tries to pull like crazy without any other thought.
No, it is not unwise to discount someone's knowledge based upon what they pull. Assuming said individual trains, then for them to pull very little means that their knowledge is either poor, or they suffer from some debilitating injury.
Let's be logical. Training knowledge should tell one how to improve at training. If you know a lot about training and yet have little to no results then you obviously have bad information (or simply cannot put your knowledge into practice).
Let me guess, you think you know a lot and can't pull much over 300 lbs, right? So, you have to make yourself feel good by believing that knowing and results are not the same thing if you train. They are. Open your mind. You are missing something.
And this is based on you training how many people?
Your statement makes about as much sense as saying if someone can do 10 pullups then they there is no benefit from doing pullups anymore. I train a bunch of full grown men that don't pull more than 2 plates who's results prove you dead wrong.
Adam, take your time and work with good form. Your grip strength (and everything else) will improve in time. Be stupid and your progress will come to a screeching halt.
How's this, I have trained quite a few people in the last 20+ years and he is stone cold right. I know a 100 lbs, very attractive young woman who pulls close to 200 lbs and she trains for fitness, not strength. Any normal, healthy man (who has trained for more than a month) pulling less than 225 lbs is NOT trying and might as well not waste their time in the gym. It is that simple.
[Let me guess, you think you know a lot and can't pull much over 300 lbs, right? So, you have to make yourself feel good by believing that knowing and results are not the same thing if you train. They are. Open your mind. You are missing something.
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Funny thing......when I guess I'm rarely correct.
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[Let me guess, you think you know a lot and can't pull much over 300 lbs, right? So, you have to make yourself feel good by believing that knowing and results are not the same thing if you train. They are. Open your mind. You are missing something.
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/QUOTE]
Funny thing......when I guess I'm rarely correct.
Funny thing, when I guess I am almost always spot-on or very close. Why? I make educated guesses.
Deadlift technique by feel
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