After talking with Dale Buchberger who does a great deal of lecturing on shoulder issues (good video at www.swis.ca BTW) and doing a bit of follow-up, I've started to shift away from a great deal of true overhead pressing for my clients(maybe I'm just getting old??).
It certainly puts a great deal of repetitive strain on the weakest structures of the gleno-humeral joint.
Obviously, if you have a competitive weightlifter or strongman competitor, you have to do them in training.
The drawback for not doing them I've found is the necessity to do more direct work to the scapular stabilizers like low traps and serratus anterior and the trunk. I do use a lot of PNF patterns which does require an overhead reach, but the direction of loading is more directly into the G-H joint rather than on the anterior-inferior capsule.
Another way around the issue a bit is to use jerks rather than true presses. You still have issues with the loading of weaker structures overhead but you bypass some of the loading through the mid range of motion. I still have a couple of guys and a gal that do jerks and power snatches, but they have never had any shoulder problems and the loads are nowhere near maximal.
I wouldn't do any overhead pressing with anyone with a history of shoulder pain, history of repetitive throwing (pitchers and quarterbacks), someone who compensates for a lack of flexion/abduction with lumbar extension, someone who lacks sufficient upward scapular rotation(or outer depending on the way you were taught), or someone with a tight posterior capsule/tight external rotators.
There's certainly more detail we can get into if you like.
In a simple answer, in doing other forms of pressing, the overhead work is not necessary and saves some wear 'n' tear that may compromise the shoulders later. There will certainly be some that can overhead press and never have any shoulder issues. They are few and far between because of the need for adequate range of motion and stability. Even the push press and jerks may cause problems depending on what condition your shoulders are in and technical issues.
Bill,
Based on the criteria you listed in this thread, I am a BIG candidate for never doing any overhead pressing motions. If I just continue to do scapular stability exercises, what are some effective alternatives for developing my deltoids, since pressing is out?
Well for one you're still doing pressing variations (flat to low incline), just not overhead pressing (vertical or steep incline). You're still doing rowing variations. That's already a lot of deltoid stimulation.
There are countless variations of raises that will not load the shoulder joint to the degree that vertical pressing. I seem to recall that at one time you did them quite a bit on the SB. Same exercises just no SB.
Also don't forget that you now have an arsenal of loading parameters (varying speeds, loads, isos, plyos, dynamic effort) that you can use to keep a fresh stimulus in your shoulder training. Just remember to avoid the 90 degree abduction with 90 degree external rotation.
The drawback for not doing them I've found is the necessity to do more direct work to the scapular stabilizers like low traps and serratus anterior and the trunk. I do use a lot of PNF patterns which does require an overhead reach, but the direction of loading is more directly into the G-H joint rather than on the anterior-inferior capsule.
Bill, when you say this, would it be possible to infer that if someone is really weak in overhead pressing, it could be linked to weak scapular stabilizers like the low traps? The reason I ask is because I have always sucked at overhead pressing. I find it almost impossible to go up in weight and old people laugh at my strength. And I have had problems with the lower traps and other scapular stablizers in the past. So is it possible that this could be the reason I suck so bad at overhead pressing?
Danny
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Limitations are for people who have them.
Weakness (relatively speaking) in the scapular stabilizers could certainly be part of the problem. You have to have proximal strength to demonstrate extremity strength. It could even be weakness in the trunk or posterior chain.
Another possibility to consider...you may be lacking some shoulder flexibility that creates some inhibition during overhead work.
If you're stronger doing overhead pressing while seated and back supported, look toward some trunk strengthening as part of the answer. Otherwise assess your scapular muscles.
Thanks Bill. As a follow up, do you feel like it would be worth it for me to focus at all on bringing up the overhead press if a large bench press is the goal? Keep in mind I am learning to bench PL style with the hopes of competing in the near future. My thoughts are that I should not worry about it due to the fact that you talked about the OH press being a good way to injure your shoulders and I don't need to add in that stress. Plus the OH is in a different plane than the Bench so I am not sure how much carry over there would be anyway. I am just curious about your opinion and anyone elses on this.
Danny
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Limitations are for people who have them.
The stabilization is different (the involvement of cuff and stabilizers varies with degree of flexion/abduction). It's certainly not totally useless, but considering you probably want to train forever, it's not worth it.
Ok this thread seems kinda weird to me because I know people who don't bench because benching tears up their shoulders. The same people are still able to do overhead pressing. My impression was the overhead pressing was less long term damaging than bench pressing. For myself as well full range benching seems to do more damage than overhead pressing although I still do lots of both.
It's going to depend on the individual. Posture, ROM, isolated weakness preclude a lot of folks from pressing without a greater risk of impingement. Like I said before there are some who will be able to do just about anything without difficulty.
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