Ok, here's a brief overview of my health & fitness history. I'm 6'2" and currently weigh around 185 (9% bf). Three years ago I weighed 285. I lost the weight in about 9 months. I admittedly didn't lose it in quite the right way, for the first 6 months or so I was only doing cardio then I started lifting. Since then I have been following book workouts (Abs Diet, TAP, Core Performance).
The thing is that my upper body (especially chest & back) is still pretty much in the same place it was a year ago.
Here are the terrible lifting stats so you all can laugh. I still can only bench 175 for about 5 reps and I can't do a single wide-grip pullup!!!!!!
I really would like to get up to at least 250 in bench and be able to do at least three sets of ten pullups.
The question is how the heck do I do it? Last week I started doing straight sets as follows:
I try to pick a weight I can do 8 reps on for the first set, then continue to add weight until I can only get 2-3 reps.
M: Chest/Tri
Bench, Incline Bench, Decline Bench, Dips, Overhead Tri-Ext T: Back/Bicep
Wide-Grip Pullup (well, I try at least, then I switch to lat pulldown), Machine Row, Neutral Grip Pulldown (again, I try and then switch to neutral grip lat pulldown),
Barbell Curl W: Shoulders/Abs
Standing Military Press, Plate Raises (front), Side Raises, Upright Row, Ab stuff TH: Legs
Squat, Deadlift, Leg Ext, Leg Curl, Calf Raises F: Cardio SA & SU: Off
Now comes your turn to rip me apart (it will really help my self-esteem). Thanks!
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If you can\'t be an athlete, be an athletic supporter.
I think your issue is your diet. I too had a weak upper body. It was not until I started eating well and a lot, that I saw great gains in my upper body. What is your diet like and do you eat at least 6-7 times a day? If you get your eating right, I'll bet in 1 year you are pushing 250.
I'm eating decent, I eat 6 meals a day. I pretty much stick to the Abs Diet eating plan (eating power foods). The only thing that is lacking a bit is probably dinner. With a wife and 3 small children, it's hard not to have to eat what they do most of the time, although I try to keep it reasonable.
Amount-wise I'm probably on the low end mainly out of fear of ending up where I started. For instance: Breakfast is either a smoothie or oatmeal (recipes from Abs Diet), morning snack is usually like yogurt or a bar, lunch is either a turkey sand on whole wheat or tuna salad (made with olive oil instead of mayo) and some fruit. Afternoon is usually nuts and some milk or a bar.
I also usually try to slip in a protein shake in there sometime during the day. After dinner is usually bran flakes or some other decent cereal or a bowl of light ice cream with nuts or something along those lines.
Is the workout I just started doing good or should I change something?
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If you can\'t be an athlete, be an athletic supporter.
If you don't pass out from taking a dump you aren't eating to grow. I would have to say diet is the first problem. If you want to get stronger you'll need to add on muscle which will increase your body weight. Also eating more will give you more energy to move the weights. When you do decide to lose weight, your extra muscles will increase your metabolism making it easier to accomplish. You've lost the weight once, how can you be afraid to do it again?
Other problems may include fear of trying to test yourself on higher weights, causing yourself to stall. Don't fear not being able to complete a set at the desired repitition. You need to test out how far you really can go. To go along with that advice get a spotter you're confident in. If you have the confidence you can move the weights.
Specifically in terms of pullups, lat pulldowns are slightly different from pullups. If you can use an assisted pullup machine, although I still feel there is some difference between this and an unassisted pullup.
I mean no disrespect for this question, but have you ever weighed 285 (and around 33% bf)? Sure, I know how to lose it, but I still have excess skin hanging from my stomach and chest I'm trying to get rid of.
Anyway, So, I already eat 6xs a day, what do I add to those meals?
I would agree that the lat pulldown is different, but unfortunately the gym I go to does not have an assisted pullup machine.
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If you can\'t be an athlete, be an athletic supporter.
I would add shakes and egg whites to your meals. It maybe be that your eating at the right times, just not the right amounts of Protein, Fat, and Carbs...
Try using Fitday.com for a week and see what your average day looks like by mapping your cals. I'm sure you are afraid yo gain back fat seeing how hard you worked to get it off. Don't let that hold you back from eating more than your required cals based on your weight. Make sure you get a good amount of healthy fats in your diet. They will actually help you stay lean. I would suggest Flaxseed oil to you if you don't already have some. Just mix it in a shake or take a 1oz shot of it in the AM.
I started at 275 lbs 5'11" in february '05. I'm at 245 now, I can do 5-6 reps of bodyweight pullups. The previous month for me I got into a restricted diet without realizing it and was complaining about not getting stronger or having my muscles develop more. Then I realized I had cut back too much on eating and decided to bring it all back up. I got back more energy and was able to bring up my strength a bit in the last week. Oh, and with the muscles I've added on since I've started, you couldn't really call me fat anymore. Yes I've got a ways to go to my own ideal but I have the confidence that I can get there.
In regards to excess skin, just fill your muscles in and it won't be as much excess skin.
after losing a lot of weight it's really hard to perposely eat more and try to get bigger. It's all psychological, but still a hard thing. Just watch what you're eating and tell yourself the food isn't going to do to you what it did last time.. once you get through it, it's all down hill!
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"Nothing tastes as good as being lean feels."
There's a limit to how much stronger you can get without fueling muscle growth.
Another issue might be the routine. You don't say how long you've been following that plan. Every lifting plan is "good" when you're new. From nothing to something elicits many positive gains in your body. But, then you stall.
Even the best plan only works until your body adapts. Checkout the Fitness FAQ section for a bunch of workout choices. Look for something that's quite different from the patterns you're using now.
Eat more and change your routine and you'll get stronger.
By the way, I was fat, so I know it's hard to commit to bulking up. You can go as quickly or as slowly as you want.
The most important time to eat more is right after working out. A PWO shake, then a LARGE mostly P+C meal within the two hours post workout can do a lot to further your strength gains. 2-3 hours, post workout, your body is unlikely to store any body fat but very likely to build muscle.
Originally posted by tndirishfan: I mean no disrespect for this question, but have you ever weighed 285 (and around 33% bf)? Sure, I know how to lose it, but I still have excess skin hanging from my stomach and chest I'm trying to get rid of.
Anyway, So, I already eat 6xs a day, what do I add to those meals?
I would agree that the lat pulldown is different, but unfortunately the gym I go to does not have an assisted pullup machine.
Hell, I'll field this bad boy, especially having gotten off the same boat.
I went from 321 - 221 in about a year, I have in my opinion none of this excess skin. There are places I may not be as tight as others, but when I am standing up and looking in the mirror I can see some definition on all my muscles including my abs, and I still believe myself to be around 17% or so BF wise. I have kept all the weight off for about a year now. I have remained pretty steadily at 220 for most of this year and have made a few moderate gains in my weights lifted.
Now I never lost by doing cardio alone. infact I actually have done very little compared to time spent under the weights. I have ridden maybe 200km on my bike this year, maybe a fair bit of walking. Tried running for 20 minutes here and there, maybe twice. A few bouts of HIIT and thats about it. Probably not enough to even fill a month of quality cardio training.
Pull-ups aren't gonna be the easiest, I personally can't do them, I can maybe squeeze out a couple of chin-ups, but that's about it. They are a goal for me, but as everyone says to build the muscle necessary you really need to eat alot which as it was mentioned is a psychological thing for me as I am sure it would be for you. ie Gaining weight seems counter-productive, even though I know it wouldn't be.
In my opinion starting to think your a wimp because you can only lift X weight is a dangerous game. Get to the gym, lift what is hard for you, not what is hard for someone else. Follow a plan. Eat accordingly. There is a guy in my gym who Benches 225 for reps. Thats close to 100lbs more than I bench for reps. Do I care? No, I actually have 0 respect for the guy. He has crappy range of motion, never works his legs, and not only does he only work his chest and arms, his curl form sucks. Yes no back, no legs, nothing. Bench, pec-dec and curls.
How did you calculate your bf% at 9 btw?
Ok I am gonna shut up now as this is WAY longer than I meant it to be [img]smile.gif[/img]
Og.
__________________ 2009: No races, No times. Slow year. So, now you're 96 cals short. You're now in starvation mode. Doomed. - LostDog
Blog entry: November 1, 2009, Pancakes LiveSTRONG daily plate log
Just looking at your training, I think that your split is what is preventing you from making gains. Its overkill. Looks like one of those dated weider-principle based routines. I highly recommend you do a search on posts by Dos, Hartman, Cosgrove, Ballyntine, Waterbury, and King just to get started. I will try to come back when I'm not slammed to post a few links.
Get to the gym, lift what is hard for you, not what is hard for someone else.
Well said, Og.
There are just too many variables in life to make direct comparisons to others, in terms of getting in shape and beyond.
Since I've realized to not give a crap about my max weight loads, it's been easier to gauge my progress...
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Fall down seven times, get up eight. -- Japanese Proverb
In my opinion starting to think your a wimp because you can only lift X weight is a dangerous game. Get to the gym, lift what is hard for you, not what is hard for someone else. Follow a plan. Eat accordingly. There is a guy in my gym who Benches 225 for reps. Thats close to 100lbs more than I bench for reps. Do I care? No, I actually have 0 respect for the guy. He has crappy range of motion, never works his legs, and not only does he only work his chest and arms, his curl form sucks. Yes no back, no legs, nothing. Bench, pec-dec and curls.
This kind of thinking is also dangerous because it doesn't provide any motivation to push yourself. I think the best mentality to approach this is to recognize that the person has errors in his form, is ignoring other exercises, but also to still recognize that he has accomplished what he set out to do. What you should get out of something like this is that, YOU want to be able to also bench as much as he does, that you WILL get to where he is and you will SURPASS him. Now go back to that last sentence and read all the bold again and keep those words at heart.
Thanks for all the input, I was re-reading the TAP and it looks like I didn't really pay that much attention to the food section and must have not have carefully followed the workout plan either.
I've planned to up the food (based on the TAP recommendations) and I decided to go back and try to complete the TAP workout plan the correct way. Do you think this would be a step in the right direction? On the off days I will be still doing HIIT cardio. I want to get stronger without losing any speed.
BTW. The only BF i've been using is one of those digital hand-held jobbers, i take 2 or 3 readings during different times and the readings are fairly consistent. I don't have the cash to "Take the Plunge".
I have a different view and I hope you can gain something from it. And no, before you ask I have never weighed over 215. But.....
Your routine and your diet are very important. Neither is more important than the other but neither can be ignored in order to succeed. What you have to do is drown yourself with information and learn. It helps for everyone to guide you and give you advice. But read, watch and listen to what everyone tells you. I tried for years to pack on muscle only to end up losing weight and over training. It was because I didn't know better. But now after many years of eating, breathing and crapping fitness, sometimes literally, I have learned what works and what doesn't for my body and feel comfortable enough to tweak someones advice for my personal goals.
Best of luck.
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Stats:
38 year old coach to my 8 year old son, 6 ft tall jungle gym to my 10 year old daughter, 184 lb husband to my wife of 15 years and a 11% BF fitness addict best friend to all 3 of them.
I went through the same thing this summer. I hit a routine and couldn't budge. I didn't look bigger, I didn't feel bigger and I felt like an upper body wuss. I wasn't wuss enough to punt though.
I took a week off, lived a normal life. When the week was over I redid my diet - I ran some calcs and saw that the abs diet had me eating less than I should have. Well, the diet did, I was eating less than I should have. I ran some numbers to see how much I should be eating (thanks Fitday!) and saw that I needed to consume much more. I still do 6 or 7 meals each day. I rarely feel myself getting hungry out of the blue, which is nice after so many years of gouging when I felt the pangs hit. (This was in mid August).
What's changed? I've seen a huge increase in the weight I can move. Weight I'm moving correctly. A couple of items I went down on so I could lift properly, other items, such as military press I've almost doubled. Pullups? I was doing 1 in July, I can do 6 to 8 now.
I still have issues feeding in the morning, I wake up at 4:45am, eat something with protein (some whey or the like) then hit the gym at 5:30. After an hour I come home, finish my whey then eat a real meal, a larger meal.
If you're hesitant on cranking up to higher calories, I suggest you train for relative strength. Eric Cressey sometimes hands out tips at how you should train for that in his articles/prime times over at T-Nation. However, I do not know of an article that is dedicated to that.
Here, I just found a tidbit on the parameters to be used in a Q&A by Charles Poliquin:
Q: I just received your book "The Poliquin Principles" and have read it cover to cover. I am 21 years old and am currently studying for a degree in sports nutrition. In the book, you outlined some routines for building mass. But I would be interested in a routine for building strength as well. Got any suggestions?
A: When training for relative strength, the following loading parameters apply:
Loading Parameters of Maximal Weights
Intensity: 85-100%
Repetitions: 1-5 RM
Sets: 5-12
Rest Intervals: 4-5 minutes
Concentric Tempo: 1-4 seconds*
Eccentric Tempo: 3-5 seconds*
Total Set Duration: Under 20 seconds*
Because of the high number of sets you'll be doing for this type of routine, you'll only need to do one to three exercises per workout. You could, however, do as many as four if you pair agonists and antagonists together, as opposed to working agonists alone.
Researchers have found that the ability to achieve full motor unit activation (MUA) is enhanced when immediately proceeded by a contraction of the agonists. For example, after doing a 3-repetition maximum (RM) set of close-grip triceps presses, rest 2 to 3 minutes and perform a a 3- to 4-RM set of dumbbell curls for the biceps. Rest 2 to 3 minutes and repeat for the required amount of sets.
This method has the added benefit of allowing you to double the workload per training session.
Something else to add to your routines is to do some grip work once or twice a week. The two that I like to use are plate pinches and farmer's hold. Plate pinches is to find two plates and hold them together with your fingers, this is assuming with a flat surface so you're holding them up by apply force through your fingers. Farmer's hold is taking a heavy DB weight and just holding/walking around with them. Both are done for time and weight. Remember these are muscles and you shouldn't over train them, keep in mind that you do use these muscles in a lot of your lifts as well.
:p 
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