Well I finally bit the bullet and took everybody's advise and gave front squats a try. How humbling. I could only use the bar and keep my form down. I had to really concentrate on keeping my heels down and not coming up on my toes. It seem easier to keep my heels down when I pointed my toes out a little bit. I did ass to grass with these and really liked the full ROM. I am now a believer. Thank you all for showing me the light!!
Good job, tossed. What hand/arm position did you use? If you're only doing bar (which is fine!), try the arms straight out in front, just racking ("balancing") the bar on your shoulders. This really helps keep form honest. And slight toes out is OK. And I know I said this in the other thread, but keep chest up (puff it up, son!) and think of sitting down between your feet.
Thanks man. You are the one that convinced me to try them. I kind of like starting from scratch again. Kind of refreshing in my opinion. I actually did them balacing the bar on my shoulders with arms out and with the wrist bent back. I haven't tried them cross armed yet. I stuck my chest out and sat back and down if you know what I mean. Do I just need to sit striaght down and not worry about pushing my hips back like sitting in a chair? Thanks for all of you help Chris.
It feels more like you are sitting down than back, if you have to compare it to an olympic squat. Try the arms crossed but as you move up in weight you will find the other position more comfortable. Front and overhead squats kick your butt just learning to get the form right. Once you do, you enjoy the variety a lot.
Thanks for the reply galya. I have done some front squats with db on my shoulders back when I did HGM and they seem like the form wasn't to tuff to get down. Swinging 80 pound db up to your shoulders is another story. I also did some overhead squats during HGM. I really liked both of them. Who knows maybe it is all in my head.
Gayla said what I was going to say. Good job, Gayla.
I just started using the smallest weight on the bar, but still have my arms straight out. I'm determined to not have to cross arms. But, boy, I can't use my hands/bend my wrists yet. I wonder how heavy I'll be able to go with my arms out in front? Actually, I try to keep my elbows as high as my shoulders, or even a tad higher, so that when I start gripping the bar, I'll be used to keeping my elbows up. I actually try to keep my arms pointing up slightly. I suppose I should not really up the weight, but start to hold the bar and get my wrist flexibility up.
Chris I thought that it might bother my wrist also but it didn't. It used to hurt holding 85 pound db or more while benching. I am pretty sure my elbows were at shoulder height but I might video tape myself to make sure workout after next. I wonder what you can do to help wrist flexabilty? Any ideas?
I love the front squats. How wide is your grip on the bar when you try to hold it olympic style? I have no trouble getting into position in regards to wrist, elbow, or shoulder flexability; but I do need a little bit of weight to "push" my arms into position. I also don't hold the bar in my hands, just use the last few inches of my fingers to press it back, keeping it on my shoulders. Here is a video of some overhead, front, and back squats I did a few weeks ago. My form isn't superb on these, my hip was really giving me trouble, and I always round my back way too much on the front squats; but you can see my hand position, and that my front squat isn't very far behind my back squat. My hands are a little wider than shoulder width, and without a bar pressing them down, they go no where near where they need to be.
You're a monster, Craig! That's some pretty good weight. You know you can do that much, so I'd say to lighten up a bit and get the form down/locked in (elbows a bit higher, no back rounding, no dropping forward at the start). Just trying to be a good coach!
Tossed: Somewhere in the forum archives, I think Bill Hartman gave some advice on improving wrist flexibility (and perhaps part of my problem is wrist strength, although with proper racking of the weight on the shoulders, the wrist strength is less relevant). I recall Bill recommending someone do a pnf style stretch: bend one hand back with the other hand, and press (fight back) against it for perhaps 10 seconds, then release tension and let the other hand bend the wrist back for 10 seconds, then repeat a few times. I also think using just the bar and letting that weight provide some stretch will help, and then one can build up over time.
Craig: I also probably need to play with variations on the hand spacing/width.
Chris also helped me get comfortable with fronts (and now they are my favourites: they are also the safest!) I found I had better luck with crossed arms and as the form (and flexibility) got better so di the weight.
Good luck and good work
Peter
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Perhaps he feels they force better form than the ole back squat?
That's my guess anyhow [img]smile.gif[/img]
Og.
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My form looks like a common "I'm choking" sign with my wrist crossed in front of my neck and my hands on the bar. The bar rest on my shoulders with my arms raised parallel to the floor.
With that said, front squats are by far my favorite. I actually have to remind myself to do other variations.
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Those OH squats are damn good. My OH squat lags pathetically behind my front squat pretty much b/c i can't get any decent weight over my head let alone locked out for the time it takes to hit an OH squat. So its been lots of OH pressing, OH squats, and fronts for me. I also always do them last so someday i will have to prioritize them and see where I am.
Buk I agree with Chris you are a monster!! Your form looked pretty solid to me and I actually saw somebody else squatting in the back ground!! That is a rare site to see at most gyms. Pete I am going to give the cross armed one a shot next time I do front squats. Gayla the reason I chose to do them is because I have a banged up back and didn't want 250+ pounds on my shoulders compressing my spine. Rookie or anybody else how long did it take to get comfortable squatting with the arms crossed or any other variation?
Safer, in that if you need to bail on the weight, put your arms down, and watch the weights plop down in front of you. A nicer scenario than losing it with the bar behind your head.
With that in mind (since I train alone) I feel more confident in pushing that extra front squat than I do with a regular squt (even though I have a cage) So in a sense you are right in that it is my reaction to them.
Peter
Peter
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I was comfortable with the arms crossed variation upon my third workout. Now beginning to increase the poundage.
But, as you know, everyone struggles with different moves. You may get comfortable quicker...or not. There's no comparing to others progress with form.
When i first tried fronts i did the cross armed/genie grip thing but progressed to the cleancatch/oly grip b/c it is harder and harder is better
So i did the lighter sets clean catch grip and then the heavier ones cross armed for awhile. Now i don't even consider the cross armed grip b/c the cleancatch position is comfortable.
The thing is, the weight should not be supported by the wrists which is what can make that position so uncomfortable, rather on the clavicles. Even so, my wrists do bear some of the burden on heavier sets that are trying to pull me forward. A bit of wrist/forearm stretching and some wrist extentions help loosen things up and make it easier to hold the grip comfortabley on top of keeping the the chest and head up so the weight doesn't go forward.
I think vids are out there of no handed front squats so just imagine where the bar is to achieve that.
"Rookie or anybody else how long did it take to get comfortable squatting with the arms crossed or any other variation?"
That is the way I first did them when I tried front squats.
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I actually do mine with my elbows out front and my palms facing down, letting the weight rest on my shoulders. Palms facing up is too awkward with heavy weight and haven't gotten used to the cross armed version.
However, i started doing thrusters (front aquat with a push press at the top of the movement) and I am forced to use palms facing up.
I prefer palms facing down. Does anyone else use this technique? Or am I a freak of nature?
I don't man. I am just using front squats to take the load off of my banged up back because they do not compress the spine. I also do lunges, step ups, sumo squats.
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