Fiance Stats: 5'2", 124lbs, wants to lower bf% to reveal musculature.
So I put her on this 1500 calorie diet first, and she did cardio three times a week and weights 3 times a week, we did this for six weeks. She gained four pounds....
After finally encouraging her to try again and that I was stupid, I put her on a 1000 calorie diet and have her doing HIIT for 30 minutes burning on average 200 calories each session, five days a week. Today is the end of her first week, her weight remained exactly the same...
What exactly am I doing wrong here, I watch her eat, I make sure she has a couple crackers in the morning to kick off her metabolism but other than that she probably only eats...three other times during the day. I feel like crap, I can't look at the dissapointment on her face again when she steps on the scales after me reassuring her it would work. I am a failure. ~ Rev
Diet is veggies, turkey and chicken, i let her get away with diet dr. pepper, whole wheat cereals, 2% milk, at work she has to get fastfood so she goes for subway wraps or a deli sandwich. She counts her calories and then I view them to double check they are right. The kind of cardio I had her on the first time was keeping her bpm in the 130-140 zone, now I have her doing HIIT sessions (she uses a bike by the way) 30 sec 180bpm, 30 sec relaxed pace, for 30 minutes. The weight workout was just machines we have in our apartment complex, ex: lat pull-down, leg curl, leg ext, chest press, lat row, tricep ext, bicep flexion, glute flexion, hypers, crunches, (we dont have a shoulder press down here, sucks) We can't afford two gym memberships so its all she has to use as far as weights, but when she gained weight after six weeks doing that I got afraid she might have put on muscle, but her pants fit tighter too she says and basically I thought ok lower the calories, so I did to 1000. So the first week is complete of the new regimen, 1000 calories a day, five days of HIIT on a stationary bicycle.
I'd get her away from the wraps and deli sandwiches (bad carbs). Can she take a salad with some chicken or tuna to work? Also omelets are good (one whole egg, 2 or 3 egg white, some cheese and veggies).
Also, maybe you can get some dumbbells for her to use. She could do squats, deadlifts, shoulder presses with them.
Just some ideas.
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It's extremely hard to get her away from carbs, she is what you call a carb addict. I try not to ruin her life too much and let her have some carbs but I always try to make sure they are 100% whole wheat. I will check out that Adam's Diet post, another quick question guy, we have this walmart electronic bf% scale...it says she is 25 percent body fat and says i am 20. she is 5'2" 124lbs and i am 5'10" 179lbs, 32inch waist. I feel like its off but is it right? If it is right then I also need to stop bulking and cut fat even though I am not that muscular yet, i am really disproportionate, my arms are fourteen inches and my calves are 15 and a half to give you an idea. thanks ~ rev
Don't know if those scales are right. They are not the most accurate way of measuring body fat, but you could use them as reference points (if you see yourself going up or down).
Remember, female's body fat tends to higher then males.
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yeah then I have been doing crappy. lets see I started the bulk phase...10 weeks ago. Since then I have went from 167lbs to 179lbs. According to my little electronic bf scale I have put on 3% of bodyfat. thats pretty horrible isn't it? what am I supposed to do now? start cutting in early novemnber? man, how do I fix my screw up and not lose my time in the bulking season??!!
also, when i first started 10 weeks ago on the bulking phase my arms were 13.75 inches, they are now 14 inches so I know i am gaining muscle mass, I can see it in the mirror too.
any suggestions on how to fix it...am i basically just going to have to hold up on the mass gaining until i burn off my extra fat? I shouldn't have drowned myself in so many calories when I first started, I should have gone up my increments of 250 calories instead of slappying on 1000, i hate learning lessons the hard way.
yeah and forget cappucino's training log because we don't have enough money for a gym membership for her and all we have are stupid machines in the fitness area of the complex with a couple tredmills and a bike. i feel bad she has to eat 1000 calories too but what the hell else do you suggest? do you suggest she eats more and gains more weight and becomes even MORE depressed? I am not forcing her to workout, she wants to, she wants to cut fat. I tell her she is fine as she is, she wants to do this, so dont think i am treating my fiance like its nazi germany in a concentration camp. so far she is defying science as far as calorie deficits go and no one including anyone on the board yet can figure out what to do. And me supposively supposed to be all into fitness and her fiance, I can't even find someone for her to get significant results! thanks for trying to help though I appreciate it. ~ Rev
Go over to Craig's Turbulence Training site (and sign up for his newsletters. Always great stuff in them). He has some great fat loss workouts there. That's what cappucino's doing. I'm sure he has one with minimal equipment.
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oldguy do you think i should take it slow and steady now and just carry this extra fat until march when I was originally planning to cut or do you think I should cut now and get down to around 12 percent bodyfat and then start to bulk really slow and steady 250 calories at a time?
hey thanks, sorry if my post seemed aggrivated craig it wasnt towards you I appreciate the help. I just feel bad because my best isn't good enough it seems like and all I want is to see her happy and I feel like I don't have the ability to do that. It's frustrating you know. aplogies if i came off defensive ~ rev
Do you get 1000 calories when you enter her intake into fitday.com?
What repetition range is she using? That's why I recommended checking Cappucino's log. 8 reps. Heavier than most women tend to use = better results.
Intervals? I use 30 seconds on and 90 seconds off for a reason. More work is done when you give more rest. Again, that is why I recommended checking out Cappucino's log.
Bodyweight exercises: lunges, chin-up holds or eccentrics, pushups, planks, etc. All better exercises than are available on a universal machine.
By your logic, she should go to 500 calories next? Calories in, calories out is a valuable equation. But it's more complex. Calories out is not just exercise. And it is greatly altered by food intake.
The number of calories burned each day are more than just from exercise. Your body burns over a thousand calories per day just at rest - your organs and brains use up a lot of energy.
But if you starve the body, it will conserve energy. Shutting down vital functions. At 1000 calories per day, it won't be long until she is amenorheic. That's a harsh, but realistic example of what a woman can expect when she starves. She'll also feel cold, all the time. WHy? Metabolism is slowing down. Calories "out" are dropping. All b/c calories in are so low.
That's why reducing calories isn't the answer.
Read cappucino's log for more than just the exercise selection. Read it for the right philosophy behind getting lean.
Personally I would throw the scale away and get her eating more calories, she is going into starvation mode and storing everything she eats. I think the general concensus is not to dip below 2000 calories. Get her lifting and doing some cardio/HIIT and look for gains in the mirror and with a tape measure. I haven't stepped on a scale in months, but can see the changes being made in how my clothing fits and how I look in the mirror. The scale can be depressing for someone struggling like that.
Yeah with only a 1000 calories she is seriously lacking energy so her body is storing everything it can get. Bump her up to 1500 but make sure it's split across 6 meals during the day witha P-F and a P-C combo. Never fat and carbs together (in relatively big amounts)
Also 30 minutes of HIIT is far too long. You're burning muscle at that point. Scale it to 15 minutes and you don't need to go any more then that. If 15 is too easy, bump up the speed at which she pedals or if she likes to run too, increase the incline.
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the harris-benedict forumula tells me she should eat 2133 calories a day to maintain weight, that is at a moderate activity level.
Craig ~ I have tried to do resistance training with cardio and having a 500 calorie deficit in her daily needed calories, it did not work, how many more times do i have to post that in this thread. she gained weight. I am going to have to tell her to eat more, up to 1600 calories daily, we will just go back to the old way whenever she was working hard and getting no where, right? Wrong, I will figure this out, but I am going to raise her calories now I hope it doesn't raise her weight which is most likely will and she will hate me for it. Atleast she will be healthy which is most important. When it comes down to it, you either create a proper calorie deficit and program to use fat as energy, or you don't. Rep ranges and exercise selection is just going to adjust work load, work load meaning how hard you are working or how much weight, meaning how many calories you are burning. And lastly...don't ever tell me my "logic" is to starve my fiance and harm her health, because it's not, you can think whatever you want I really don't give a shit. ~ rev
Originally posted by Rev: oldguy do you think i should take it slow and steady now and just carry this extra fat until march when I was originally planning to cut or do you think I should cut now and get down to around 12 percent bodyfat and then start to bulk really slow and steady 250 calories at a time?
I think what you do will ultimately depend on you goal. At what weight/body fat% do you want, and when do you want it by? That really determines how you will control your diet and workouts.
The best suggestion I can give you is to read all you can. Read articles from Craig, from Alwyn, Berardi, the T-Nation site, ruggedmag.com. Read what has worked for people on this board. Find out what you like to do, what works for you. What works for me may not do it for you. It's going to take time so you'll have to be patient.
And rev, you need to be patient here. I thought Craig gave you a terrific answer. He was explaining why the plan you had wasn't working. Don't always take it as an insult. Everyone teis to help here. If you keep blasting someone when they don't agree with what you say or did your posts will get ignored. I would do everything Craig said.
Ramp up her calories slowly. Add 100 a day for a few days, maybe a week. Then another 100 for a week. And again. Her metaloism will speed up to handle it so you won't see a weight gain.
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Rev, would you at least look at Craig's TT site. He has made a career out of getting people to lose weight. You might alos check Alwyn's site. I'm sorry, but you are not an expert and he is. Examine his information before you just reject it.
Originally posted by Rev: the harris-benedict forumula tells me she should eat 2133 calories a day to maintain weight, that is at a moderate activity level.
Craig ~ I have tried to do resistance training with cardio and having a 500 calorie deficit in her daily needed calories, it did not work, how many more times do i have to post that in this thread. she gained weight. I am going to have to tell her to eat more, up to 1600 calories daily, we will just go back to the old way whenever she was working hard and getting no where, right? Wrong, I will figure this out, but I am going to raise her calories now I hope it doesn't raise her weight which is most likely will and she will hate me for it. Atleast she will be healthy which is most important. When it comes down to it, you either create a proper calorie deficit and program to use fat as energy, or you don't. Rep ranges and exercise selection is just going to adjust work load, work load meaning how hard you are working or how much weight, meaning how many calories you are burning. And lastly...don't ever tell me my "logic" is to starve my fiance and harm her health, because it's not, you can think whatever you want I really don't give a shit. ~ rev
Rev, I would guess that this describes your fiance, Not fat but lacking muscle definition. Loves carbs and sweets, doesn't eat very much right now, tried a lot of cardio and crash dieting in the past. From what you have said this seems like a good picture and its a state that a lot of females are in. This presents a big problem. Even before dieting there bodies metabolism is pretty down regulated and inefficient. They have impared insulin sensitivity from eating meals and snacks based around all sugar and simple carbs, this makes them prone to hold onto fat. So you now have two huge things against you, slow metabolism and someone who doesn't want to burn fat already.
When you put her on the "higher" calorie diet for a week or two and she gained weight its because she was eating more and different things than ever, but it wasn't neccessarily wrong. Trying to fix the problem by cutting calories lower and lower is going to lead to an even worse drop in metabolism and a tendancy to store more fat. This is why Craig is saying not to drop calories so low.
You have a couple options you can try. Get her back on 1500-2000 calories with a good weight workout and HIIT runs and just convince her that the weight gain is just her body trying to get back to normal. Keep in mind that the calories need to come from good sources, fat and protein with every meal, no carbs alone, just about all carbs coming from whole grain sources, etc...This might be hard to do because the scale might go up until her metabolism gets moving.
Another way would be to keep her diet as it is now and add weight training. This will give a bit of a kick start to her metabolism. Have her track what she eats for about a week. Go to www.fitday.com and see how many calories she is eating and where they come from. From here, slowly introduce more protein and fat sources into her diet over the course of a couple weeks. Also slowly work to change the carb sources from simple to complex. After a couple weeks you can add back in HIIT runs. This strategy will be a bit more of a pain but should, in theory, minimize the amount of imediate weight gain if you can't get her to throw away the scale. The theory is that the slow intro to better fuels (fat and complex carbs) and protein with the addition of the weightlifting for a metabolism boost will get her body back up to speed and closer to where it should be over the course of a couple weeks.
Hopefully this ramble makes some sense because I am in a bit of a hurry but I will be back online later tonight.
Good luck with whatever, working with females, especially significant others is always a hard place to be.
Danny
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I second tossing the scale. Gaining a couple of pounds...especially as someone just starting out...is not only common...it's a good thing. She's almost certainly going to gain some weight if she's using her muscles. On the same hand her fat % will almost certainly drop during the same time. In time it'll be far easier to lose fat than right in the begining.
I personally wouldn't stress the diet as far as counting calories go right now. Work on eating plenty of vegis and some fruit, stearing from fried foods and white flour.
I think some your numbers might be off man. 30 minutes of HIIT and only burning 200 calories? I burn 250 in 15min of steady state on the treadmill (albiet I'm 40lbs heavier than she is, that's still a big difference).
Thanks guys, special thanks to Danny for giving me advice I can understand, I don't feel so frustrated now. Yeah I am definately not an expert, I have been trying to do this fitness thing for three years now and all I ever do is the wrong thing, seriously.
Mistake 1) Started as a senior in high school trying to burn fat, starved myself to where I almost passed out and got light headed just standing up from sitting for more than five minutes, lost 40lbs in 3 months doing so (most was probably muscle)
Mistake 2) Follow a trainer that knew nothing about gaining mass. Had me doing all machines, hip flexion stuff, never did a core lift until just recently she told me they were too dangerous, reps in the 15-20 range for everything. Did that for a year and saw zero gains in strength and 3 or 4lbs muscle gain. (a 70 year old librarian female with a certificate to train at the YMCA...i know...im stupid for doing that)
Mistake 3) Overeating when going into a bulking phase thus packing on fat that I starved myself and lost muscle mass just to burn off.
Now where am I? Just as stubborn and close minded as ever with 20% bodyfat and weak as hell with 14" guns and my fiance has to suffer from my lack of knowledge and willingness to learn and accept that i am wrong most of the time...someone kill me.
I have that skinny fat look CT talks about. I look skinny, but my bf is 20 freagin percent. So, I am ready to be brain washed and erase of all knowledge I thought I knew and start over. And maybe attempt to be not so obsessive complulsive about this stuff even though I have a bit of OCD in general if you can't tell already. The one good thing I have done for myself is in the past few months I raised my bench to my bodyweight 180lbs 1 rep max, my deadlift to one rep max of 315, and my squat to a one rep max of 255 which all those numbers are still sad.
I see myself left with two choices now.
A) Cut fat percent down to around a tolerable 15% while training for strength and then try to cut more bf by the time summer gets here.
B) Ignore the 20% bf, use a way more moderate calorie surplus and continue to train for mass.
p.s. ~ sorry for blasting everyone that disagrees with something I "think" is right. It's obviously an emotional issue that has to do with no one else but me.
I blame it on a lifetime of being picked on and beat up for being small and passive. I am trying to change both of those. I don't have the best social skills, ok I don't have hardly any, but lifting weights makes me feel good about myself, and I just want to do it right, its my main passion in life right under my friends and fiance. I want to look and be as strong as someone like Chad Waterbury or any of those guys I read articles from so bad it kills me.
How about this - use Harris-Benedict to figure your maintenance calories - eat that, with a 40/30/30 p/c/f macro split. Use a program like Ripped Rugged and Dense for your lifting. Throw in a day or two of HIIT (using the 30/90 split Craig recommended for 15 minutes). That may get you to option A.
By the way, those number are not sad at all.
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