Today I was "spoken to" by one of the head trainers at my facility in regards to my exercise selection for one of my female clients.
My client is around 40, about 35 lbs. overweight, but she is quite strong and very willing to push herself physically. She has no musculoskeletal problems besides some nagging knee pain that flares up occasionally. Her flexibility is average or better, especially in the shoulders (did scapular wall slides with ease).
I gave her a circuit consisting of DB Swing Squats (similar to kettlebell swings), DB RDL's, pushups and inverted body rows off the smith bar.
She was using a single 10 lb. DB for the Squats and a 15 or 20 lb. DB for the RDL's, held down between the legs, with a wide stance.
I instructed her to bend from the waist, keep the weight close to her body, keep the back straight, push the hips back during the descent and drive them forward during the ascent. On the first day that I showed them to her, we went through about 4 circuits of 15 reps each and I didn't see her form slip once.
So, today, my head trainer stopped me on the floor and gave me an earful as to how I was taking a big risk by having that woman do RDL's. He didn't really explain why it was dangerous, but he said that I should be having her work with cables or stability balls (his favorite tools for his own clients). He actually suggested that I have her do the prone superman exercise on the floor as a replacement to the RDL's.
Now, personally, I disagree with this, because I was specifically trying to strength her hip extensors without putting her into lumbar extension. I believe that when people think they have a "weak back", it is actually their glutes and hamstrings that are weak, and they are over-relying on spinal extension (very common). So, I was trying to strengthen her posterior chain and teach her some functional motor patterns.
If she's performing the movement correctly, I see no reason they're unsafe unless it's something special about her. Hell, I usually see people sub out CDL for RDLs because getting form right on a CDL can be tough for some, but pretty easy with RDLs.
If she's performing the movement correctly, I see no reason they're unsafe unless it's something special about her. Hell, I usually see people sub out CDL for RDLs because getting form right on a CDL can be tough for some, but pretty easy with RDLs.
just my .02
Agreed. Doesnt sound like mr swiss ball knows what he is talking about at all.
sidenote- if form sucks on a CDL do rack pulls or pulls of box's the flexibility requirement is much lower.
RDLs when done correctly are safer than supermans(lumbar hyperextension?). I would also try adding rack pulls - not too heavy, not too light. Cable pulltroughs are a sweet alternative too and they are just what your head trainer suggested
I totally agree with you on this Allerious. However, being right is not always the most important thing. If you have bosses to answer to (not sure how much influence this head trainer has over you) then sometimes you have to look for compromises. I know you are wanting to do what's best for your client and not just parrot the company line but if you disregard your bosses advice, you could find yourself on the outside and they will find someone who will put this client on the floor doing supermans. I think the client is better off with you even if that means you have to compromise on a few things.
I like vassilev's suggestion of the Cable pull-throughs. Your head trainer will like the use of the cable's and it is a great exercise. One I'm sure you probably already utilize in your programming at some point. Then perhaps in a few weeks, you will be able to move her to the RDL's as a progression without complaint from the head trainer.
Thank you all for your input. This board is a great resource. I'm very glad to have it.
I am not going to butt heads with my head trainer over the RDL's. I can't afford to risk losing my job at this point. This isn't the first time they've spoken to me about giving "advanced" exercises to beginners.
I need to find a replacement, closed chain exercise for hip extension.
I came across the Kneeling Squats shown on this page (#7) and I really like the idea:
Thank you all for your input. This board is a great resource. I'm very glad to have it.
I am not going to butt heads with my head trainer over the RDL's. I can't afford to risk losing my job at this point. This isn't the first time they've spoken to me about giving "advanced" exercises to beginners.
I need to find a replacement, closed chain exercise for hip extension.
I came across the Kneeling Squats shown on this page (#7) and I really like the idea:
I got the idea to do this exercise with a belt around the waist, attached to a cable pulley behind the individual. Has anyone tried this setup before?
Lots of potential options. Problem is, a lot of them carry the same tard-stigma as RDL's. I doubt a GM is going to look much better.
You could try something as simple as pull-thrus or even 45 degree back raises. Those are pretty nondescript, and are pretty effective in the glute/hip area.
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Everything is unsafe for beginners. That's the whole point of having someone teach you.
Yes. The other point I would make is that squatting down and "deadlifting" (i.e. bending over to pick something up) are movements that people do every single day of their lives.
We make a huge deal about proper form in the weight room but in reality, most people are using awful form in their daily lives. They squat down on their toes and let their knees cave in and travel far past the toes. Or they bend down to pick something up and round their backs without even thinking about it. They do this multiple times each day, and yet...somehow...they're still alive and able to function.
I'm trying to figure out how my client is supposed to be able to sit down in a chair or bend down to pick up a basket of laundry if I'm not allowed to teach her squats and deads for at least a few months. I guess she'll have to use bad form and I won't be able to do anything about it. The way I see it, lower body is divided between quad or knee dominant exercises and hip dominant exercises. The squat and dead are the basic movement in each category, respectively. Like most of you, I see these exercises as infinitely scalable to any fitness level. I think that some people hear the term squat or deadlift and automatically associate that with heavy powerlifting.
It makes no sense to me at all.
I could never get away with having a beginner client (especially a woman) do anything involving a barbell, at my facility. Wouldn't matter if it was an unloaded bar. They'd probably give me flak for teaching her deads with a broom stick. My head trainer is expecting me to have her do things like prone leg extensions and cable leg extensions.
Heh. Don't worry about a client's form in the real world. That's why there's all those "lift with your legs, not your back" stickers. And don't forget about how bent out of shape the airline gets if your checked bag weighs 51 pounds...
I'd go with pull-throughs. That's a great teaching tool for learning to engage the glutes. It's on the cable station, so hopefully would be acceptable to your management.
If they balk at that one, I'd go to stability ball hip extensions. I mean, hey, it's the stability ball. They can't have a problem with that one, can they? HA! Start with straight legs, progress to bent knees and feet flat on the ball, and, if she's stronger than that, go to a single-leg variation.
If they balk at that one, I'd go to stability ball hip extensions. I mean, hey, it's the stability ball. They can't have a problem with that one, can they? HA! Start with straight legs, progress to bent knees and feet flat on the ball, and, if she's stronger than that, go to a single-leg variation.
That's supine hip extensions, right?
What are your feelings about prone hip extensions on a stability ball(AKA reverse hypers on a swiss ball...without the hyper )?
What are your feelings about prone hip extensions on a stability ball(AKA reverse hypers on a swiss ball...without the hyper )?
Butting in-- I do these as an "advanced" exercise from my physical therapist, as I'm rehabbing my herniated disk. I like them, and feel like they have increased my general posterior-chain-kinesthetic-awareness. They'd be a great way to teach a client what kind of movements affect which muscular groups.
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What are your feelings about prone hip extensions on a stability ball(AKA reverse hypers on a swiss ball...without the hyper )?
I like them a lot. Even better if you can get that ball up on a bench (so greater ROM than from the floor) or get yourself on a real reverse hyper machine. But on the ball they're hard to load and bodyweight isn't very hard. You can add ankle weights and slow the tempo, that's about it.
Yes, I meant supine hip extensions for his client.
Romanian Deadlifts unsafe for Beginner?
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