MAXX--Are you following the meal plans or the template outlining protein, starch, fruit/veg, and fats? I am following the template and find that 9cal/pound is very accurate but it is my understanding that the meal plans may include more calories.
I am following the meal plans, tho I am repeating some of the things that I liked instead of what is listed. I went thru and calculated today's calories and they came out to about 1500, which seemed low for what all I ate. Hopefully my math was a little more accurate Today was actually the first day that I felt hungry between meals, but I credit that to the workout this morning. I must also add that all this healthy food is really doing a number on my stomach and bowels.........
If by "truth" you are referring to the Lyle McDonald protocol usage without his name on it, how to heck do you know that Lyle and Alwyn/Mike haven't been given license to use it? Is it even "licensed" in the first place? I really don't know the legalities of it. But don't you think the ones it would impact (Alwyn and Mike) would do a bit of research to make it not reflect poorly on themselves?
Because I speak to Lyle on a very regular basis and know from him for a fact that it's not the case.
Part of his reason for releasing the Stubborn Fat book in the first place was to finally get something in return since he's gotten nothing from it.
It's been widely known that Alwyn's used the SFP cardio and credited Lyle in the past-- just that now it seems to have changed since he's decided to rename it.
It's a bit different from saying "I reviewed the research and came to this conclusion on my own", when he didn't. It came from one place.
It's not illegal per se, but it's not something that makes me look at Alwyn any more favorably.
And I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank about it, so whatever.
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Plus, inversely, the cost helps to insure that you're serious about it. If you're going to half-ass it, you have some self-doubt about your resolve to finish/follow the program, you won't be willing to shell out $80.
I see your point on this. This is an aspect of higher cost that I wasn't considering.
It's been widely known that Alwyn's used the SFP cardio and credited Lyle in the past-- just that now it seems to have changed since he's decided to rename it.
Without debating whether or not it's true in this case, isn't that pretty much what ALL fitness professionals do? How long to you own knowledge before you can name it? South Beach Diet is just a modified version of Atkins, which is a variation on the Body Opus program. They are all based on the same concept. Once you add a little variation, it eventually morphs into something else.
Very little is new under the sun... someone is always starting where someone else left off. Mike Roussell is a VERY well educated young man, and based on what I've heard out of him, I'd put him up against any nutrtionists out there. He's not out there stealing ideas... He's got his own credentials.
If two people tell you low carb and interval training work for fat loss, who's the theif? What if they are both basing their statements on the same scientific research, or what if they came to the same conclusion independently?
Newton and Leibniz both created calculus independently of each other. Was one necessarily a thief? If the laws of science and math are universal, why does only one person get to be right?
Ironically Newton and Liebniz had a famous feud throughout their entire adults lives. Guess things don't change all that much.
what can be contrasted physiologically between this type of program and other much more intense exercise like the tour de france? in a matter of days pounds of fat stores are gone. in comparison wsfl is mild. is this tapping that same sweet spot?
I don't see how. For starters, I'm assuming that this program is not designed for elite level cyclists with resting heart rates in the upper 30's. If I did ONE leg of the TDF, I'd collapse on the roadside and defacate on myself, twitching in a fetal position until someone scooped me off the road.
Without debating whether or not it's true in this case, isn't that pretty much what ALL fitness professionals do? How long to you own knowledge before you can name it? South Beach Diet is just a modified version of Atkins, which is a variation on the Body Opus program. They are all based on the same concept. Once you add a little variation, it eventually morphs into something else.
Very little is new under the sun... someone is always starting where someone else left off. Mike Roussell is a VERY well educated young man, and based on what I've heard out of him, I'd put him up against any nutrtionists out there. He's not out there stealing ideas... He's got his own credentials.
If two people tell you low carb and interval training work for fat loss, who's the theif? What if they are both basing their statements on the same scientific research, or what if they came to the same conclusion independently?
Newton and Leibniz both created calculus independently of each other. Was one necessarily a thief? If the laws of science and math are universal, why does only one person get to be right?
Ironically Newton and Liebniz had a famous feud throughout their entire adults lives. Guess things don't change all that much.
Nothing you've said here is incorrect.
Unfortunately, it's also not the point being addressed, either.
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You're claiming that Alwyn is basically plagiarizing Lyle McDonald, right? Alwyn even credited him with something that he uses? What is the statute of limitations on knowledge. Does he have to mention Lyle's name every time he mentions that protocol, assuming that he got it from Lyle in the first place.
I can tell you that some software products, seminars, consulting fees, etc are set to high levels to eliminate certain parties from purchasing them, attending, or using the services. Some customers aren't worth it. Too high maintenance, not serious enough, etc.
I got this in an email this morning and thought of this thread and about the part of the discussion on cost relating to "value" of a program...
“What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly.”
Thomas Paine b.1737-1809 US patriot & political philosopher
When Tag Heuer (or however it's spelled) was having trouble selling their watches, they increased prices. People then thought they were getting a better watch, and sales increased.
I found the same thing when I was designing jewelry. When I raised my prices, I sold more. It was the perception of more value or of a better quality product.
There are things that you associate quality with price. Jewelry absolutely. Fine watches absolutely. I doubt very seriously that the average consumer equates the quality of a fitness program with the price. I think he charged that because enough people are willing to pay it.
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I found the same thing when I was designing jewelry. When I raised my prices, I sold more. It was the perception of more value or of a better quality product.
That throws a wrench in the concepts of break even points and diminishing returns.
There are things that you associate quality with price. Jewelry absolutely. Fine watches absolutely. I doubt very seriously that the average consumer equates the quality of a fitness program with the price.
An attribute used to stand in for or indicate another attribute is known as a surrogate indicator. For example, a consumer might infer that since a product has a relatively high price, it must also be of high quality. Conumers use factors such as price, advertising intensities, warranties, brand, country or origin and other factors as surrogate indicators of quality, better termed 'quality signals'.
Usually, surrogate indicators operate more strongly when consumers lack the experience to make informed judgments on their own, when their interest in the decision or motivation is low, or when other quality-related information is lacking.*
*excerpted from Consumer Behavior: Building Market Strategy, Hawkins, Motherbaugh, Best, 10th edition, McGraw Hill Irwin, 2007.
I found the same thing when I was designing jewelry. When I raised my prices, I sold more. It was the perception of more value or of a better quality product.
I can relate. When I switched from wearing wifebeaters to going completely shirtless, women started throwing not only their panties at me, but cash as well. Marketing is a funny business!
I can relate. When I switched from wearing wifebeaters to going completely shirtless, women started throwing not only their panties at me, but cash as well. Marketing is a funny business!
An attribute used to stand in for or indicate another attribute is known as a surrogate indicator. For example, a consumer might infer that since a product has a relatively high price, it must also be of high quality. Consumers use factors such as price, advertising intensities, warranties, brand, country or origin and other factors as surrogate indicators of quality, better termed 'quality signals'.
Usually, surrogate indicators operate more strongly when consumers lack the experience to make informed judgments on their own, when their interest in the decision or motivation is low, or when other quality-related information is lacking.*
*excerpted from Consumer Behavior: Building Market Strategy, Hawkins, Motherbaugh, Best, 10th edition, McGraw Hill Irwin, 2007.
To be more textbook. Here is what I should have said.
There are things that you associate quality with price. Jewelry absolutely. Fine watches absolutely. I doubt very seriously that price is a surrogate indicator of fitness programs.
The quote from the book doesn't disprove my point if that was your intent.
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Past performance is not indicative of future success.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
So, is this group going to forget about Jimmy and start laying into Alwyn? Is Alwyn bashing and excommunication the flavor of the month?
Nah Jimmy is still doing some amusing and stupid shit.
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To be more textbook. Here is what I should have said.
There are things that you associate quality with price. Jewelry absolutely. Fine watches absolutely. I doubt very seriously that price is a surrogate indicator of fitness programs.
The quote from the book doesn't disprove my point if that was your intent.
I wasn't trying to disprove your point Gabe. Only to get you to reexamine your assertion about how people may purchase fitness programs.
You're stating that you doubt, very seriously, that price is used as an indicator for quality when it comes to purchasing fitness programs, right? And you give relevant examples where price is a surrogate indicator (e.g. jewelry, fine watches). But let's take a look at what I noted about what current practice says about when a surrogate indicator is used:
-when consumers lack the experience to make informed judgments on their own. Could this possibly be the case here? I would argue 'yes' because purchasing a fitness program is not something done with frequency by most, it's not something where you can easily sample the product before making the decision, and it's often not something where you can ask your friends for their opinion on the product.
-where interest in the decision or motivation is low. Is this the case here? Probably not applicable in this case because people who are motivated to get in shape often take their health seriously at that point in time.
-where other quality-related information is lacking. I would say this would be applicable throughout fitness programs, especially those purchased on the internet. One of the few ways to determine the quality of an intangible product like this is to try it. Barring that, something likely has to serve as a surrogate indicator.
I think that that price as a surrogate indicator in purchasing fitness programs may very possibly be a real phenomenon; I'm guessing it does come into play (but that would be my gut feel guess - I don't know enough about how people purchase fitness programs to say with any certainty). It certainly seems to meet one or two of the criteria set forth by those who have done research on how consumers behave.
That's an interesting assertion. It's certainly worth considering. It's a lot more fun than arguing back and forth.
My own thoughts on the 3 point test from the text.
-when consumers lack the experience to make informed judgments on their own. I would like to say no since I believe if most of the sales are from affiliates or a persons own mailing list that this would infer a certain level of education and following of the topic. I'm not sold that this is the case. Reading does not mean comprehending. Maybe I'm being cynical.
-where interest in the decision or motivation is low. I think we both agree on this one.
-where other quality-related information is lacking. I argue no because the internet is a much touted source of information. Fat loss is also an obscenely well written topic and it's well covered widely in the popular press.
Doing this before lunch for me using this test I give it a 1 win, 1 loss and a tie. Not conclusive.
Here is a question if consumers are substituting price for an inability to judge quality how does the long form infomercial style factor into this. Don't those 2 things contradict since appearance and style are often evaluative criteria as well.
__________________
Past performance is not indicative of future success.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Today was actually the first day that I felt hungry between meals, but I credit that to the workout this morning. I must also add that all this healthy food is really doing a number on my stomach and bowels.........
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