Maybe I'm a sucker for good writing, but if the information can be presented to me in a clear, concise manner without treating me like a retarded monkey, I'm intrigued.
I agree. I don't like the style either. I don't shop on the home shopping network or fall for the 'adversting' sections in the coupon booklets either.
I'm embarrased to send my friends to those links if I want to recommend a program for them. It makes me think I'm sending them to an infomercial.
I don't like that in every 'helpful' blog post is an embedded link to 'buy this'.
I don't like to sign up on any 'free' website when you have to put in your email address.
but that's the kind of consumer I am.
I liked the real FREE information, good advice, good recommendations and no crap. That made me like and respect the author and at times buy their products and recommend them.
However, I can fully recognize giving away all this advice for free made me respect them and occasionally buy products from them, it probably didn't do much to increase their revenues. So they find methods that work. I hope they make lots of money too. I'm not buying it, but someone is, or they wouldn't be doing it.
If they are savvy business people, and find that they prefer or need the loyal & returning customer base to sustain their business, they'll be back to the more personalized approach we got to know / respect them with.
I can't fault them for wanting to grow their business or to make tons of money. Who doesn't? I fully anticipated that when, for example, Craig B. got more well-known that his loyal base (me ) would be lost in the dust. I don't enjoy his blog anymore since it's 99% ads, and I'm glad I no longer have the email that had me on his email subscription either for the same reason. ( However, I haven't been on his forum, but that is probably his new personalized approach and his new customers probably like it very well) I doubt his business has suffered since I stopped being a customer, either.
it's called growing pains. Get over it. If you like their stuff, use it.
If you want someone to give you personalized, ad free stuff, I guess we have to wait until a new person comes around...and for the cycle to start all over again.
i have a question for anyone doing this plan. i am allergic to raw fruits, raw vegetables and some nuts. will that interfere with the diet aspect of the plan?
You can sub cooked veggies and some other fat for those items. There is a DIY diet layout where you can plug in what you want or there is a premade menu for each day and you can sub things on that if needed. I am allergic to dairy and I have very little problem finding substitutes. I am very impressed with the diet plan, not that I have actually started it yet.
And as for the marketing...Yeah the name is stupid and the marketing is cheesy but it is marketing. You have to compete with all the other crap products out there even if yours is decent. I may not be that experienced in the realm of strength and fitness but I do know a thing or two about marketing and regardless of how stupid you think a technique is, if it works you use it until it doesn't work any longer.
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AM, homeschooling mom to Wild & Wacky, see my fitness journey here, my training log here and my everything else blog here.
Consistent practice equals consistent progress.
I was sucked into the marketing fervor around this. I must have gotten about 15 emails about it. There is a 60 day money back guarantee.
I am curently doing NROL for Women but really need a jump start on some fat loss for a few events coming up. It is very low calorie. It has me at 1045 cals/day compared to 1650/1850 that NROL4W has me and I just don't know how I would be able to manage. The workouts look pretty tough--alternate days of weights and intervals with interval/steady state workouts. One day of rest (and no carbs).
I agree. I don't like the style either. I don't shop on the home shopping network or fall for the 'adversting' sections in the coupon booklets either.
I'm embarrased to send my friends to those links if I want to recommend a program for them. It makes me think I'm sending them to an infomercial.
I don't like that in every 'helpful' blog post is an embedded link to 'buy this'.
I don't like to sign up on any 'free' website when you have to put in your email address.
but that's the kind of consumer I am.
I liked the real FREE information, good advice, good recommendations and no crap. That made me like and respect the author and at times buy their products and recommend them.
However, I can fully recognize giving away all this advice for free made me respect them and occasionally buy products from them, it probably didn't do much to increase their revenues. So they find methods that work. I hope they make lots of money too. I'm not buying it, but someone is, or they wouldn't be doing it.
If they are savvy business people, and find that they prefer or need the loyal & returning customer base to sustain their business, they'll be back to the more personalized approach we got to know / respect them with.
I can't fault them for wanting to grow their business or to make tons of money. Who doesn't? I fully anticipated that when, for example, Craig B. got more well-known that his loyal base (me ) would be lost in the dust. I don't enjoy his blog anymore since it's 99% ads, and I'm glad I no longer have the email that had me on his email subscription either for the same reason. ( However, I haven't been on his forum, but that is probably his new personalized approach and his new customers probably like it very well) I doubt his business has suffered since I stopped being a customer, either.
it's called growing pains. Get over it. If you like their stuff, use it.
If you want someone to give you personalized, ad free stuff, I guess we have to wait until a new person comes around...and for the cycle to start all over again.
I don't think I'll ever get personalized stuff. If they want to, I'm not going to turn them down.
I don't know, I just feel that this isn't what I've come to expect, and maybe I'm let down. If people are truly embarrassed to send this to their friends, I think that says it all.
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Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sex machine.
It would be nice to have an alternate version to go to with a bit less hype and talking. I mean, i understand he has to introduce himself and his credentials, but for those of us who don't need to see that or the other hype, something a little less bombastic would be nice.
At least this thing looks better than some of the stuff out there... doesn't quite hurt my eyes the way other stuff out there does
wondering if it's worth getting... versus killing myself my own way...
wondering if it's worth getting... versus killing myself my own way...
It's awfully hard to go low carb as a veggie...
The premade meal plans are NOT vegetarian friendly. You would definitely have to create your own meal plan from the template. The premade ones are VERY meat heavy!
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AM, homeschooling mom to Wild & Wacky, see my fitness journey here, my training log here and my everything else blog here.
Consistent practice equals consistent progress.
I was sucked into the marketing fervor around this. I must have gotten about 15 emails about it. There is a 60 day money back guarantee.
I am curently doing NROL for Women but really need a jump start on some fat loss for a few events coming up. It is very low calorie. It has me at 1045 cals/day compared to 1650/1850 that NROL4W has me and I just don't know how I would be able to manage. The workouts look pretty tough--alternate days of weights and intervals with interval/steady state workouts. One day of rest (and no carbs).
Holy shit really????!!!! You mean every day? What so fucking secret about that diet?? "The starve your body, exercise like crazy to lose 5lbs a week plan" Uh...
I hope this is a misprint or you are a very tiny person.
It's 28 days. Extreme, and not meant for someone with a lot of weight to lose.
There's a few out there. It does basically boil down to Eat only what's absolutely necessary, work your ass of. But, for such a short time frame, it shouldn't produce lasting ill-effects. High protein, lifting... those keep the muscle. the sheer huge deficit is what lowers the weight so fast.
It isn't marketed as that sort of tool from what I read. It reads as if it were designed for anyone that wants to lose weight fast which is everyone. And again I say, what is so "magic" about only eating was is absolutely needed and lifting heavy? And how is that not going to produce muscle loss? I am completely blown away by this thread.
Holy shit really????!!!! You mean every day? What so fucking secret about that diet?? "The starve your body, exercise like crazy to lose 5lbs a week plan" Uh...
I hope this is a misprint or you are a very tiny person.
They do say it is not for anyone with more than 20 lbs to lose. It is an extreme "lose fat fast" sort of thing you do for 28 days and only recommended for people who already have a good handle on eating for life, nutrition, etc.
I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing but I skimmed and it said the calorie levels are about 9 x bodyweight. I am currently 118 so that calculation comes out to about 1062 for me.
They talk about the myth of muscle loss...saying as long as you are lifting and eating enough protein (1.1 gram/bodyweight) you will not lose muscle. I think Allwyn is quoted as saying he has never seen anyone lose muscle while they lift and eat this way.
iirc, it says it's not for people who have a bunch to lose, but only like 20ish pounds. I guess the "magic" is what kinds of foods to eat to help you keep lean mass whilst losing fat on such a deficit. There's been studies proving that low cal plans can maintain lean tissue based on what you eat and weight training as your workouts. So... it's doable and it's different from a starve yourself and eat shit while running marathons kind of fast weightloss.
Having interacted with both Cosgrove AND Roussell, I can tell you quite confidently that they are both incredibly smart, and do high quality work.
Keep in mind, you (the typical readers of this forum) are not the target customer. If you listened to that interview I did with Ryan Lee, you know that you have to research your market, and make your appeal very specific.
Who is the target of that site? I can almost guarantee you that you are not it (most of you anyway).
Do we as fitness professionals relinquish all respect when we do something to make money? Are we supposed to stay broke to maintain that respect?
I don't like long letter ads. Hell, even Ryan himself said he can't stand them, and they don't really work on him, but they work. They work really well! He has marketed the exact same products in two different ways, one with mainstream marketing that was very tasteful and acceptable by this kind of crowd, and the other with the long cheesy sales letter.
Guess which one outsold the other by 10 times?
So if the product is high quality and we trust that the authors are solid, respectable professionals, then why worry about how they market it? I'm not the target since I don't have a bunch of fat to lose, so it didn't really hit any buttons for me. It was very carefully crafted to reach the people who will probably buy this product in droves.
This topic interests me because I am struggling to find a way to have my cake and eat it too with my future products. Yes, I want to sell a ton of products, but I also want to keep the respect of this crowd. How do I do both? Cosgrove and Roussell don't care because they have a product to sell and they aren't really influenced by forumites' opinions. Since my forum is my only real presence on the net it wouldn't make sense for me to do something that would be a real departure from what this group likes.
I know that we sometimes think that we are the quintessential fitness product consumer, but I think that we don't realize that we are a small dinky teeny tiny piece of the market.
That's what we're also concerned with as we build our site. I think our advantage will be that we're not going to be "product based" but more service based.
So I am coming off my first bulk at a whopping 133.8 lbs and have about 9% (about 12lbs) of bf to lose. I don't want to lose any muscle though. Am I the ideal candidate for this then?
So I am coming off my first bulk at a whopping 133.8 lbs and have about 9% (about 12lbs) of bf to lose. I don't want to lose any muscle though. Am I the ideal candidate for this then?
Sounds like it to me.
They make it very clear that's it's for a short-term "emergency" (my word) fatloss, or for a jumpstart, and not to be used for more than 4-6 weeks. Not for the obese, not for someone looking to lose 2-3 pounds.
Look at it like this: It's a healthy, controlled way of "looking good in a bathing suit for next month's trip to the beach". If you did it year round you'd feel like crap, and they basically say that.
I don't like long letter ads. Hell, even Ryan himself said he can't stand them, and they don't really work on him, but they work. They work really well! He has marketed the exact same products in two different ways, one with mainstream marketing that was very tasteful and acceptable by this kind of crowd, and the other with the long cheesy sales letter.
Guess which one outsold the other by 10 times?
I'd have to see the entire business plan before I could give Ryan's experiment any kind of credence. It's similar to looking at how a research study is conducted. To put them up side by side is an over simplification. The long form may sell products but I will never say that it is an optimal way to maximize the profit potential of a product where you wish to have a relationship with the consumer.
I give these products a lot less credibility because it looks like the {Insert Long Form User Name Here} is only wanting to separate me from my money and is just mailing it in for the quick buck.
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Past performance is not indicative of future success.
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
It was released now to get those who do it in shape by the Memorial Day Weekend (the unofficial start of summer). The procrastinators.
Lara, unless you are 4'0" tall I can't picture that you have 20 lbs to lose.
oh no, I definitely do not have 20 lbs to lose. I am more concerned with losing fat, not a number on the scale. I was "skinny fat" for many years and even though I am in a healthy weight range for my height I have some very stubborn lower body fat (total pear shape) that won't budge. I have a few big events coming up and well yes I am feeling fleshy and a bit vain and looking for something that is more "balanced" and calculated than just some old crazy crash diet. I am familiar with Mike and Allwyn's work and respect their knowledge.
oh no, I definitely do not have 20 lbs to lose. I am more concerned with losing fat, not a number on the scale. I was "skinny fat" for many years and even though I am in a healthy weight range for my height I have some very stubborn lower body fat (total pear shape) that won't budge. I have a few big events coming up and well yes I am feeling fleshy and a bit vain and looking for something that is more "balanced" and calculated than just some old crazy crash diet. I am familiar with Mike and Allwyn's work and respect their knowledge.
Lyle McDonald has a book on stubborn fat loss, reviewed here.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
There are good things in infomercials. I've gotten my temperpedic, bowflex, and a few other things I was quite happy with because of infomercials. It's about having a good bs meter, if you ask me.
How different are these workouts compared to the NROL Fat Loss ones????
They are different, different structure and more cardio (HIIT and SS). I just finished Fat Loss 1. I am definitely in for a ride over the next month.
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AM, homeschooling mom to Wild & Wacky, see my fitness journey here, my training log here and my everything else blog here.
Consistent practice equals consistent progress.
Because, by and large, wouldn't the people who this is targeted to not fall in this range?
Honestly I think it is assumed that if you have more than 20lbs to lose then you don't know enough about nutrition and you aren't fit enough to do it. I think that is an assumption made across the industry. (At least that is the feeling I get many times when researching things.) Or maybe it is a CYA statement.
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AM, homeschooling mom to Wild & Wacky, see my fitness journey here, my training log here and my everything else blog here.
Consistent practice equals consistent progress.
Honestly I think it is assumed that if you have more than 20lbs to lose then you don't know enough about nutrition and you aren't fit enough to do it. I think that is an assumption made across the industry. (At least that is the feeling I get many times when researching things.) Or maybe it is a CYA statement.
If the demographic are people like me who have 5-20 lbs to drop and want to do it quickly and who are already knowlegale RE nutrition and somewhat fit then why make a campaign like that? That kind of marketing only hits the desperate (whether or not they fit the model) and the impatient (I want it now) people (whether or not they fit th model) I bet most people who fit their model are not going to buy into that.
I just don't see how sustaining so few calories can at all be good for me or how I wouldn't crash and burn, get sick, etc on a plan such as that. I would want to understand a bit more about how many of the test clients got sick, etc in order to get this "quick fix" to their fat problems.
I think the ad is way cheesy and too expensive. I'm not paying $77 to have someone tell me to eat (a lot) less and exercise more (plus I'd pass out on 1000 cals/day - 1500 is hard enough to do). Of course, I may not be the target audience.. If I lost 20 pounds in a month (or at all) they'd be checking me in to the local eating disorders clinic. LOL. However, I guess they know what sells, right?
) would be lost in the dust. I don't enjoy his blog anymore since it's 99% ads, and I'm glad I no longer have the email that had me on his email subscription either for the same reason. ( However, I haven't been on his forum, but that is probably his new personalized approach and his new customers probably like it very well) I doubt his business has suffered since I stopped being a customer, either.
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