Question if you were running a simplified Westside type of template for lower body: 1 ME and DE during the week. Of 1 ME exercise, 1 supplemental lift(hamstrings) , 1 lower back (hyper extensions) and abs. Dynamic effort session similarly set up but DE exercise instep of ME.
If you were running four sessions per week, would it be too taxing on the athlete if you were to do GPP style of work on the other two sessions. Would it be too draining on the athlete or couldn't he recover fully, even though appropriate progression was followed?
For example:
Monday: ME + injury prevention.
Tuesday:Strongman type of activities i.e various sand bag carrying and sled dragging forms, bodyweight chin ups and push ups and prehab work. More of recovery type of workout but pushing work capacity.
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: DE + injury prevention.
Friday: ME Vertical pressing/rowing + light GPP and prehab.
Saturday: Off
Sunday: Off
If time wasn't an issue here and could this be set out better to aid optimum recovery?
Edit: Could of posted this in Powerlifting section but too late now,
have an oly or speed lift on each day as a primer for a heavy lift. Do something like power snatches, followed by deadlifts/squats. Or on upper days, clean and jerks, and then a pressing movement and some rows.
Not really sure what "injury prevention" is. Is the athlete recovering from an injury? If not, you can just throw some rotator/scapula work at the end of a workout, and some upper back work at the end of another if you're concerned w/ injury prevention.
Just an idea.
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Probally be fine.. Thats actually pretty close to what westside actually recomends.
I train alot more then that, but i sure didn't start with that kind of voume/frequency.
Westside principles are the way to go and thats why im raising the volume systematically. As he athlete progresses im sure the template will be altered. If time wasn't an issue how would you structure a similarly aimed template?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcoholiday
why not just do:
M: Upper
W: Lower
F: Strongman
have an oly or speed lift on each day as a primer for a heavy lift. Do something like power snatches, followed by deadlifts/squats. Or on upper days, clean and jerks, and then a pressing movement and some rows.
Not really sure what "injury prevention" is. Is the athlete recovering from an injury? If not, you can just throw some rotator/scapula work at the end of a workout, and some upper back work at the end of another if you're concerned w/ injury prevention.
Just an idea.
Injury prevention are usually small circuits to work on neglected groups i.e. upper body prone Y's,T's and external rotations etc.
Oly lifts are great but take too long to reap benefits, not discarding them as a useless tool but they have their place. Give something you can screw up. Training speed before max effort takes away from shifting heavy things after.
if you're getting too fatigued from the GPP then you're doing too much or going too hard on your GPP. It can be done, just don't be a knucklehead about it. Stick with easy movements and low intensity
Oly lifts are great but take too long to reap benefits, not discarding them as a useless tool but they have their place. Give something you can screw up. Training speed before max effort takes away from shifting heavy things after.
how do you figure?
you should start seeing benefits from oly lifts in a few weeks.
if they're an athlete, why WOULDN'T you do lifts for speed? Cleans and snatches are great. If you can't do them, or don't want to learn them, do simplified versions of them. How will benching for speed help an athlete?
And how does training for speed take away from lifting heavy things after? If this was the case, oly lifters would not be able to do heavy squats after their oly lifts. I don't think the majority of us are that advanced where we have to split it up.
Don't fall into the "westside is the best" mentality. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
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you should start seeing benefits from oly lifts in a few weeks.
if they're an athlete, why WOULDN'T you do lifts for speed? Cleans and snatches are great. If you can't do them, or don't want to learn them, do simplified versions of them. How will benching for speed help an athlete?
And how does training for speed take away from lifting heavy things after? If this was the case, oly lifters would not be able to do heavy squats after their oly lifts. I don't think the majority of us are that advanced where we have to split it up.
Don't fall into the "westside is the best" mentality. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
Nothing meant by it, thats why there is no benching besides the point box squatting has worked the best for me so far. Oly lifts is a great skill to learn but if their are already wrist and shoulder problems it gets too complicated.
Back to the original question, it all depends on the individual
What sport do they compete in?
When in the week do they compete?
When do they train/how often?
Goals?
blah blah etc, etc
I'm sure it would work for some and not others
Westside principles are the way to go and thats why im raising the volume systematically. As he athlete progresses im sure the template will be altered. If time wasn't an issue how would you structure a similarly aimed template?
I would say it depends on the athlete, i would slowly start adding things in and not be afraid of having a couple short training sessions during the week.
I agree with you on the oly lifts. A good template to look into would be defrancos westside for skinny bastards.
I would say it depends on the athlete, i would slowly start adding things in and not be afraid of having a couple short training sessions during the week.
I agree with you on the oly lifts. A good template to look into would be defrancos westside for skinny bastards.
Referring back to defrancos work if at the end of ME and DE sessions just perform backwards and forward sled dragging at the end of the sessions. The so called "prehab" (the phrase really ticks me off) part of is going to be glute activation circuit.
The shoulder issue, came from the same stupid training mistakes everyone made in the beginning. Took a very long time by the NHS to get a good physio, in the end of the treatment she probably done more bad than good. Now im spending time with a "smarter" physiotherapist for a recent knee injury (coming back strong)- his next point of issue is the shoulder.
Spent a long time trying to fix the flaws created and now over head press is a fairly painless movement to do. Because of the shoulder issue most bench like movement absolutely out of the equation, I still want to spend time economically when training.
In the upper body sessions, after the main movements - upper back work is the norm. Thats the template in a summary. Aim : to have a real 200kg squat, 250kg deadlift, 20-25 chin ups (palm facing away), 70kg 3-5RM, don't want to set a goal for an overhead press - see how it progresses. Feel free to add anything.
With those goals it seems you are on the right track.
With the shoulder issues watch out on straight bar squatting frequency and anything with a straight bar, the position a straight bar puts a shoulder in is not ideal. Cambered bars, Saftey squat bars, buffalo bars etc are the best option to keep the weights heavy if you have access to them.
ME,DE and GPP
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