A couple of weeks ago I learned that upright rows are actually unhealty exercises for your shoulders and that they will eventually f*ck up your shoulders/joints. I also learned that overhead presses aren't that healthy either.
So my question is, are there any more exercises that can f*ck things up?
Not a fan of Good mornings, any form of Smith machine squat, or behind the neck techniques (lat pulldowns, overhead presses). Shoulder presses are fine as long as they're performed in front of the head (barring a sport-specific need, or course).
IMO any exercise is unhealthy if you don't have proper form. IDK about upright rows because i don't do them. We do single armed DB presses for baseball and as far as i'm concerned, as long as my form is solid, i won't have a problem. BTW, the arm stays in line with the body, not going in front or behind of the neck, but even with it.
Good mornings i can see potentially dangerous if you don't have enough flexibility in either your lower back or your hamstrings. If you try to go too low and you don't have the flexibility, i can see how you can tweak your hamstrings or back.
Smith machines-i will never do them and i laugh at my friend who does despite my efforts to tell him that its bad and support it with scientific study. the huge old guy at the h.s. gym who shrugs 400lbs. obviously knows more than a bunch of certified trainers who do extensive research and experimentation. :rollseyes:
Again, any exercise done without proper form is unhealthy. Other than that, i believe that if you do an exercise right, and use good form you'll be fine. Then again, i'm not certified and i haven't done years worth of research but thats what i think
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Originally posted by TrainingGirl: bipennate, is there anything about a smith squat that can injure you, or you don't like them for other reasons?
It's an injury magnet! Because you are forced to work along the path of the bar, rather than the natural movement of your own body, your knees and back will end up moving in an unnatural motion, putting enormous pressure on your lower back and knees. In addition, because you must push horizontally against the bar, you also increase the sheering force on your cervical/upper thoracic vertebrae. Nasty!
Also, upright rows cause an internal rotation of the humeral head during a lateral flexion, which is a breeding ground for a supraspinatus impingement. I don't like good mornings because of the same sheering force potential on the upper spine, as well as the tremendous pressure and risk of bad form in respect to the lower back. RDL's/SLD's are a much safer option.
i've done upright rows and now doing high pull from BOM intermediate. Mahler can vouch on the BOM routine as well.
it's all about proper preparation and form my friend. matter BOM even makes a note on possible injuries, but i'd have to get back to no that.
peace
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Originally posted by Mahler: Curls done in a squat rack.
Mahler
is this because someone is more than likely to come up behind you and knee cap you??? [img]tongue.gif[/img]
i think upright rows with DB's are safer than using a BB.
Conclusion from Article Adage #7: So, to summarize, overhead pressing is cool if a) your shoulder girdles are healthy and strong, b) it can be incorporated without messing up structural balance in your programming, c) your sport/weaknesses necessitate its inclusion, and d) you’re factoring it in to your overall volume equation. And, you can potentially make it even cooler if you’re pressing in the scapular plane with a neutral grip.
Regarding upright rows also found in the same article as above. It's in Adage #9. Best if you read the whole passage yourself. The essentials that I got from it is that the movement itself isn't going to kill your shoulders but rather that the loading/volume/tempo of the exercise is different as compared to other muscles and it's much easier to "kill your shoulders" because they should be worked differently.
Quote:
If I want to overload the delts, I can do so via more effective means (benching, overhead pressing, rows, pull-ups and lateral raises). If I want to overload the upper traps, I’ll stick with deadlifts, Olympic lifts, and shrugs; all allow for greater loading and a more systemic effect.
I just finished a 3 month stint of physical therepy for a minor shoulder injury. The Therepist really seemed to know her stuff, and the last appointment I had with her was to review the Book of Muscle workout which I was planning to start. Right away she said that in her professional opinion that she would refrain from anything that was overhead (i.e. military presses). She said that it was just asking for shoulder problems after a while. While not opposing them as strong, she did not like heavy deadlifts - abnormal stress on lower back. Overall she was impressed with the BoM as well as my knowledge of exercises. She asked me where I had gotten the info, and I told her about JPFitness.com. (shameless plug) She wrote down the web address and said she was going to get her husband to come here and check it out. I thought that was pretty cool.
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'8 replies before the gutter! Good job Clubhouse!!!!!' Ninjabookey
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Sweet another convert. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Did she offer any suggestions to replace the military press and other above the shoulder excercises?
Og.
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In her opinion there are no direct replacements. She said that incline bench press would be the closest she would get to them (angle wise). She made no suggestions as a alternative to the deads. And to be honest, I plan on doing them with lighter weight.
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Those that can't do teach. Those that can't teach consult. Deserve aka Gabe
'8 replies before the gutter! Good job Clubhouse!!!!!' Ninjabookey
Rest and relaxation can be a powerful “nothing” to propel us to greater achievements. Mahler
Stop listening to your wiener. He may want to go for a swim, but you haven't checked if the waters are shark infested yet. Ninjabookey
vocabulary-wise they say that Dead Lifts are NEVER straight legged, so there can be no Straight-legged dead lifts.
But the chief instructor admits that just about everywhere weight lifters call them Straight legged dead lifts, and I, as he.. won't argue on vocabulary : )
Wait, your gym doesn't use a goodmorning, which at least is supposed to use a flat back, but uses the straight leg deadlift that has a ton of low back flexion?
Because thats a horrible horrible idea. Low back flexion is about the worst possible thing for the spine, especially while loaded.
Danny
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Limitations are for people who have them.
humm I do know they told me to keep my back straigt doing the straight leg deadlift.. But I'd have to ask the chief trainer about what you're saying. I think he was talking more of the vertebrae at the point where the barbell touches the spine.. but not sure ..
If you perform your stiff deadlifts like this: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...gDeadlift.html
which is more of a Romanian deadlift (who cares about names), then I see no problem. Its just when the back rounds that the problems come in.
Danny
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Limitations are for people who have them.
I had actually stopped doing them a while ago just because the motion didn't feel right. If it wasn't the wrist angle, the top portion of the move seemed like it was just begging for shoulder inpingment!
BA
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Originally posted by FlyinM: I just finished a 3 month stint of physical therepy for a minor shoulder injury. The Therepist really seemed to know her stuff, and the last appointment I had with her was to review the Book of Muscle workout which I was planning to start. Right away she said that in her professional opinion that she would refrain from anything that was overhead (i.e. military presses). She said that it was just asking for shoulder problems after a while. While not opposing them as strong, she did not like heavy deadlifts - abnormal stress on lower back. Overall she was impressed with the BoM as well as my knowledge of exercises. She asked me where I had gotten the info, and I told her about JPFitness.com. (shameless plug) She wrote down the web address and said she was going to get her husband to come here and check it out. I thought that was pretty cool.
if have read through the exercise descriptions in BOM, then you'd see that there is a fair warning about not doing deadlifts, squats or any exercise if you have lower back problems. besides BOM prepares you well long before doing any seriously heavy deadlifts. Read the book again on behind the neck shoulder press. if you lack flexibility, then you will have problem doing them. again the book prepares very well before doing any serious lifting.
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I read the book - I was just offering her opinions. Bear in mind that she only glanced through the exercise descriptions and briefly reviewed the actual workouts. Overall she was impressed with the entire workout - it hit everything. Perhaps the restrictions were specifically for me - since I had a shoulder impingement and lower back strain.
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Those that can't do teach. Those that can't teach consult. Deserve aka Gabe
'8 replies before the gutter! Good job Clubhouse!!!!!' Ninjabookey
Rest and relaxation can be a powerful “nothing” to propel us to greater achievements. Mahler
Stop listening to your wiener. He may want to go for a swim, but you haven't checked if the waters are shark infested yet. Ninjabookey
Good mornings i can see potentially dangerous if you don't have enough flexibility in either your lower back or your hamstrings. If you try to go too low and you don't have the flexibility, i can see how you can tweak your hamstrings or back.
I don't see how having flexibility in your lower back has anything to do with good mornings as an exercise. You're not supposed to be bending your back when you do good mornings. I've been doing good mornings for a while now, about 3-4 months. I feel my lower back being hit more in traditional stance squats and deadlifts than I do with good mornings. Also the point of good mornings is to build up your posterior chain which includes hamstrings. Saying that it might tweak your hamstrings is like saying not to bench because you might tweak your pecs...
Although thinking about it further, it may be because you're referencing good mornings as a stiff legged exercise instead of bending your knees while lowering the weight.
A lot of the pictures I've seen for the form for good mornings show that they have the bar really high up. But probably like your trainer noted the bar placed at that point tends to end up resting on my neck and it's very uncomfortable that way. Instead I tend to have it across my back on my shoulder blades. Do note that because of the position of the weights, I have to start off leaning forward a slight bit. The bar is held in place with a combination of resting on my back as well as using my arms/hands to balance the load evenly.
Take a look at the picture of the girl in this thread, see how she has the bar further back as opposed to the person in the beginning of the thread. Good Morning form check.
Also the guy from exrx also has it in a lower position. I think I actually place it even lower, but as I've never actually seen myself performing it nor have I seen a picture of myself performing it, I can't be sure.
Yes I see, I'd have to try them to get a good personal idea, but there are so many other exercises.. anyways, I'll keep my eyes and ears open at the gym.
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