If you don't already subscribe to Brian Grasso's newsletter you really should. Some of you may remember I recently posted that I dropped all but a few newsletters to reduce the clutter in my inbox. I was getting dozens! Needless to say, Grasso's stays. I love his writing style, his philosophy and his training tips.
Getting to my thread title, this newsletter addresses something I have been talking about lately to my local coaches, and as usual, Brian says it so much better than I ever could. I would like to know what some of you think about his as well.
Quote:
Pitch Counts and Young Baseball Players
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I received a TON of questions through my open Q & A yesterday.
Many folks posted their questions on my blog, while several
others emailed them to me directly.
I am going to spend some time answering ALL OF THEM over the next
few weeks.
One of the questions that came in yesterday caught my attention:
* * * * * * *
First I want to thank you for all the valuable information you provide.
My question pertains to junior high schoolers and pitching.
Are there any studies that you know of that have looked into
number of pitches thrown and arm injuries? What would you
recommend to a parent who asked you about the relationship
between pitching at a young age and potential arm injuries?
Thanks
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Fantastic question and thank you for asking it!
There have been studies - I believe the most notable ones were
conducted through the Alabama Sports Medicine Center.
Let me start by answering your question this way...
... Scientific research is fine, great in fact, but it must be
considered within certain contexts and parameters.
Research can give us generalizations of findings.
More importantly, it can't always give us the entire story.
Dr. Kwame Brown, who you likely know by now, is my 'right hand
man' when it comes to the International Youth Conditioning
Association, is forever telling me this...
... The danger in scientific research is that very few people
ever read the entire study.
And even then, fewer are able to understand the contents from an
application standpoint.
It is virtually impossible to say with any conclusion that a
given young athlete can throw no more than 'x' number of
pitches in a game.
Although VERY trainable, a great deal of injury avoidance can be
found in the genetic make-up of someone.
For example:
- Joint Structure (specifically of the shoulder)
- Muscle and Bone Length
- Ligament and Tendon Strength
These are things that are determined at birth and seldom (if
ever) considered in the scope of the study itself.
But can be very critical in the whole 'arm injury' consideration.
Also, there is the whole concept of training and past
experiences.
It has been my overwhelming observation (and I have written about
this many time) that kids who participate recreationally in many
different sports during their primary growing years, are much
less prone to overuse and acute injuries.
This is even more true for kids who also enjoy the luxury of
free and active play - without the intrusion of coaches who try
to make the child do 'certain things in certain ways'.
The combination of this multi-sport exposure and free play
experience, leads to a very capable young athlete who is both
mechanically sound (i.e. they move well) and injury resistant.
Case in point, think back to your own childhood.
For me, every summer day was spent playing baseball with my
friends for HOURS.
There were no coaches telling us about throwing mechanics...
No instruction on how to turn an effective double play...
And certainly no pitch counts.
By my estimations, I must have thrown or pitched a ball between
1,000 - 1,200 times in a given 5-day week.
And had NO shoulder injuries to speak of!
My point is that early sport specificity and over-coaching seem
to have led to the problems we are seeing in terms of injuries
and youth sports these days.
In between playing baseball, me and my friends did all of the
following:
- Rode our bikes
- Climbed trees
- Wrestled
- Played basketball
- Ran obstacle courses through playgrounds
All of these 'free play' activities left us strong, mobility and
flexible.
And of course... INJURY RESISTANT.
In fact, I can't remember any of us ever having to go to see a
doctor due to sore shoulders, backs, hips or anything else.
The point of my rather long and winding story , is
that we are looking too narrowly at what is causing the problem
and not accounting for the reality of the 'big picture'.
Kids today specialize in sports early.
It is all baseball, all the time.
There is no infusion of basic elements of play and strength
development that isn't specific to making them a better baseball
player.
I gave commented on this many, MANY times before, but have no
problem bringing it up again -
From the ages of 6 - 16 (or so), the bulk of a child's training
and sport participation should come in the form of NON-DIRECTED
LOADS... In fact, as much as 65 - 70%.
In practicality, that means that nearly 3/4 of the training and
sports play a child does over a ten year span should be based
on global and basic development - not specialized and focused.
The real answer to the question then is simply this -
Pitch counts would cease to be an issue if kids were allowed to
(and even coaxed) enjoy multiple activities and participate
ONLY in training systems that were based on general athletic
ability.
Now, I am a pragmatic kind of guy and although the above point
is the direction I am trying to take this youth sports crazy
culture of ours, I also want to give you some guidelines that
work in the current day model you likely find yourself in.
Here they are -
:: Play baseball (or any other sport) seasonally. It cannot be
a full-year project for kids.
:: Have the kids play all the positions in a given sport. This
will serve to increase their athletic ability and also reduce
the risk of injury in terms of overuse from the constant strain
of playing the same position day in and day out.
:: Try to enroll your kids with teams whose coaches understand,
embrace and ACT ON the whole principle of development. It
shouldn't be about winning in Little League - it should be about
learning, having fun and developing skill.
:: Kids should never be allowed to get to the point of 'technical
failure' (when their form starts to break down). It is not good
enough to pull them from a game AT this point, it is necessary
to pull them from a game BEFORE they get there.
:: Be proactive. Using the above point, keep pitch counts of
your young athlete or team and ascertain when they 'look' like
it's time to switch them up. Do this one or two times, and I
guarantee you will find the specific pitch count that is
appropriate for specific young athletes.
:: Don't work with Trainers who promise quick increases in
speed, strength or power in short training programs. Training
is just like school (and SHOULD be just like sport). It is
monumentally more important to develop skill and understanding
over time than it is to create quick increases in the short
term. Making kids faster in the short term is very easy...
Creating lasting speed improvements that can be applied to sport
is a complex issue that takes time.
I truly hope this has helped and thank you sincerely for taking
the time to ask me your question.
Do you have a question you want me to answer, ?
Just go to my blog and post it.
I will answer it (guaranteed) over the next few weeks.
This principle, in my opinion, applies even through highschool. It drives me nuts to see coaches and parents trying to turn their kid into a pro, and directing their training as if they should be doing what every college/pro athlete is doing.
Also, using my Motion DNA device, I can tell you that pitch counts are really irrelevant if you have good throwing mechanics. As he mentioned, he would probably pitch over 1,000 times in a week with no injuries. What screws up a good pitch on a young athlete is making kids do anything in isolation in a weight room.
I would like some tips from someone in here on how to teach proper throwing mechanics to kids. My nine-year-old can't throw a baseball or football. He has terrible timing and I don't seem to have the nack for instructing him, resulting in him getting frustrated with his lack of ability and giving up.
He's strong... He can do 20 pushups in a row with GOOD form. His pulling muscles are a little weak though. I really need to get him into a sport, but his school doesn't offer anything, and I'm not really sure where to start. He likes rock climbing, but it isn't the most convenient sport to do around here to say the least. I told him he has to pick a sport, I don't care what. I feel like the social aspect will be good for him, and the regular exercise won't hurt either.
I feel like if he got a little confidence boost like learning how to throw or catch (forgot to mention, he can't catch worth a darn either--any sport) he might show a little enthusiasm about joining a team.
JP, I've seen coaches tell kids to "spread their wings" to get into the proper throwing position. If the kid's right-handed, he'd stand sideways to the target, left foot forward, left hand pointed directly at the target, right arm cocked.
Then, on the throw, he turns his shoulders toward the target.
I wish I could remember the cuing they give the kids on the release, but I remember on the follow-through the right hand should swing past the left knee.
To catch, the key is to get the fingers of the receiving hand or hands pointing up, with palm(s) facing the object being thrown. Kids instinctively want to catch a ball with the palms up and fingers toward the person doing the throw. That basket-style catching makes the ball bounce up out of the palm and hit the kid in the chest or face, which isn't fun and makes the kid afraid of the ball.
When my daughter played softball, the coach taught the kids to catch by first having them practice slapping the ball down with the palm of their glove hand -- someone would soft-toss the ball toward the kid's chest or face, and the kid would slap it down to the ground with her palm. Then, when they put on gloves, they understood that they needed to have their fingers pointing up in order to trap the ball in the glove's webbing.
I probably didn't explain it very well, but that's how I've seen coaches work with beginners.
Weird to think that kids have to be taught to throw and catch -- I can't really remember a time when I couldn't throw and catch.
BTW, I like Grasso's points about general athleticism. The problem I see is that kids start to fall behind if they don't play a sport in spring and fall. That leaves winter and summer to try something else, unless you want to have your kid playing two sports simultaneously in fall and spring.
So far, I've drawn the line at that. Playing two sports in the same season means a kid is practicing almost every night of the week and playing multiple games in multiple sports on weekends. No time for Scouts or music lessons or any other extracurricular activity.
I was told by a parent a few years ago that if my daughter wasn't in travel soccer by 10 or 11, she had no chance to play varsity at the local high school. And travel is fall and spring, with a camp in the summer and a short indoor season in the winter.
Then I hear these horror stories from parents about how a particular clique of parents and coaches will dominate a particular sport in a particular community, and if you aren't part of the clique, your kid might be screwed. Or if your kid happens to play the same position as an insider's kid, your kid gets less playing time and falls behind, even if you're otherwise playing by all the rules.
You'd think that bullshit would be restricted to youth sports, but I also hear stories of these cliques continuing to influence who plays and who doesn't all the way through high school.
Another issue is that kids at ever-younger ages start to think of themselves as "soccer players" or "lacrosse players" or "baseball players." (Even in Harry Potter the kids play Quidditch or nothing.) The idea of a kid thinking of himself as an athlete who plays a bunch of sports might not survive this generation.
back to the pitching issue - years ago I heard a PhysTher I was working with discourse about the young catchers who throw back every pitch and the wear and tear on their young arms (no rest days or pitch counts) - especially in light of the poor mechanics they often exibit.
Is that still a concern or was he off-base (or biased do to injuries he happened to be seeing)?
Weird to think that kids have to be taught to throw and catch -- I can't really remember a time when I couldn't throw and catch.
Nor can I. And I never "threw like a girl" either. Football, baseball, softball - all properly thrown and I couldn't tell you how I actually learned it, except by doing and learning how to hit my (moving) target.
I was told by a parent a few years ago that if my daughter wasn't in travel soccer by 10 or 11, she had no chance to play varsity at the local high school. And travel is fall and spring, with a camp in the summer and a short indoor season in the winter.
Then I hear these horror stories from parents about how a particular clique of parents and coaches will dominate a particular sport in a particular community, and if you aren't part of the clique, your kid might be screwed. Or if your kid happens to play the same position as an insider's kid, your kid gets less playing time and falls behind, even if you're otherwise playing by all the rules.
You'd think that bullshit would be restricted to youth sports, but I also hear stories of these cliques continuing to influence who plays and who doesn't all the way through high school.
Another issue is that kids at ever-younger ages start to think of themselves as "soccer players" or "lacrosse players" or "baseball players." (Even in Harry Potter the kids play Quidditch or nothing.) The idea of a kid thinking of himself as an athlete who plays a bunch of sports might not survive this generation.
Sadly, this has all been quite true in my experience. In fact, at the mandatory parent's meeting at the hs for fall sports, the athletic director went so far as to put up a chart showing which starters on the soccer team had played with which elite club teams prior to hs and during their "off" season (no such thing in the soccer world my kids inhabit). The clear message was that if you don't invest the time (and $$$$$) into your kid's soccer "career" during the non-school season, then they have no chance of making the high school team.
The clique in our area isn't unique either, which is a shame. There are 2 or 3 families who rule in my town, and if you aren't "in" with them or their kids, your kids don't stand a chance of getting on a team. Even info about tryouts for the school team (which occur in the summer, not during the school year, for soccer) are ONLY sent to those who are "in" - so if you don't know the right people, you won't even know about tryouts until it's too late. I often wonder how many kids want to play a sport but have no idea (nor do their parents) of how to get that necessary information.
And yeah, finally, and sadly, kids are definitely limited. Anyone who plays 2 sports is pressured to choose one - even before high school. Kids who play basketball and soccer are pushed and pushed until they are forced to quit one (because they get kicked off teams for missing practices and games when there are conflicts).
I wish I could say I read your post and think you're nuts, but every parent I know - not just my town - has had similar experiences...
What do you want to know about throwing? Everything?
Right now, I would let him choose his own arm angle. If it's in the acromial plane, even better, because he's not going to be stressing himself to throw. If he can go overhand and wants to, let him. Once you see where he wants to throw the ball from, you can start tinkering with everything else.
I'd make sure that his front shoulder is pointing towards the target. (easy way to do this is to have him point the glove.) He should step forward and then when that front foot hits the ground, he twists his body to throw it. (does that make sense?) I'll go into much more detail if you want.
Each throwing motion can follow the same basic principles, but at the same time, needs to be accomodated for individuality.
__________________
Quoth David Banner: "Like a pimp"
It's not a beer belly. It's a gas tank for a sax machine.
one trick I learned for how to break down a movement that you know how to do well - try to teach yourself using your "off" hand. If you throw right, try to teach yourself to throw left - and see how you have to phrase things and tweak things knowing what you already know.
one trick I learned for how to break down a movement that you know how to do well - try to teach yourself using your "off" hand. If you throw right, try to teach yourself to throw left - and see how you have to phrase things and tweak things knowing what you already know.
That's an interesting idea. Never thought of that.
I see so many kids who throw well, I wonder if by some cruel trick of fate I am just such failure as a parent that I can't teach my kid the basics about throwing. Here I am a fitness guy and everything! My poor kids have to have that expectation from everyone in town since everyone knows me as a fitness expert in this area.
I wouldn't really stress too much about it, except that it is extremely frustrating to try to take them out to play football when neither child can catch or throw.
My third shows great potential though! He can already throw, and he can run pretty well for a 4 year old.
Ninja, I would love some help on teaching my oldest how to throw. I have a football and a softball. Should I get him a baseball and a mit?
Grasso's story today about Miles, the kid he played soccer with in NYC, was great, insightful, and pointed. I too keep his newsletter as a 'must read' because I have kids.
Grasso on pitch counts
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