linkning to sources, crediting sources

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by Mon

Me either! I just get my information from articles, newsletters, and such that I have learned in the past from well known people (like cressey and robertson and hartman). I am not a trainer and my major is not even kinesiology.

But you don't cite your source, so that's plagiarism.

[Mon]

Originally Posted by Cynic

But you don't cite your source, so that's plagiarism.

Plagiarism is only when you copy and paste word for word. I sited a source in the rotator cuff thread.

I guess next time I'll have to put all the sources of where I learned the information from next time just so I won't get questions all the time and such, and so people won't think I am plagiarism.

[MAXX]

Originally Posted by Mon

I guess next time I'll have to put all the sources of where I learned the information from next time just so I won't get questions all the time and such, and so people won't think I am plagiarism.

That would help, that way people don't come back at you with questions that you don't know how to answer without referring back to your "source".........

[jvernacchio]

Originally Posted by Cynic

But you don't cite your source, so that's plagiarism.

[Ian Kay]

Let me set this out straight:

Mon, if you copy & paste something from another source, please cite the source.

However, if what you are doing is describing repeating things you have read - in other words, conveying in your own words various things you have learned from different trainers/sources - then you have no responsibility to cite all of your info.

If any of your info is incorrect, be sure that someone here will correct it. If it is in fact plagiarized, we will delete or edit it.

Let me say this too: If anyone accuses someone of plagiarizing, please provide the source from which the person is copying - or at least a suggestion as to where or from whom they are plagiarizing.

Keep in mind that everybody - and i mean EVERYBODY - in the fitness world is "stealing" ideas from others. Perhaps Mon is repeating Eric Cressey's concepts... but Eric will be the first to tell you that he didn't invent any of the stuff he knows. He might 'cite' Mike Boyle, or Cosgrove, or someone else... and in turn, Cosgrove would mention someone that he "stole" the idea from.

Plagiarism on this site would mean copying someone's written words, verbatim (or near enough to be an obvious ripoff) and claiming it for your own idea. But there are simple rules that are true about the scapulae, for instance, that anyone, trainer or not, can learn and repeat.

So, to conclude:
If you accuse someone, provide the proof against them.
If you see incorrect information, argue (logically, not offensively) against the erroneous post.
If there is no plagiarism and no bad information, then don't fuck with the person posting.

[MAXX]

Sorry, I was not trying to attack, tho the personal trainer comment was uncalled for. I have no doubt that her info was legit, but I also think my questions were legit.

If a person dispenses information without citing a source, then they should at least be able to explain their information when there are questions without having to defer the question on to an internet link. For example, if someone asked for advice on how to rebuild a carburator, I would not be able to give them instructions right from my head. So if I posted instructions without a source, and then someone had a question, and in return I just posted a link, that pretty much sums up that I really didn't know my original information too well..........

[UConnJulie]

But Bill, by that logic, all the "advice" I give in the injury forum should be cited with references and sources.

[Jean-Paul]

Julie, It's a little different in your case being that you have gone through the proper schooling to be recognized as a physical therapist.

Maxx, I understand what you're saying, and don't necessarily disagree either. This thread just went south all of a sudden, and I want it to get back on track. The original poster is new to this forum, and I feel like we're "airing dirty laundry."

Sorry Sharsell!

[MAXX]

Originally Posted by UConnJulie

But Bill, by that logic, all the "advice" I give in the injury forum should be cited with references and sources.

Not at all Julie. If I asked you a question about something that you posted, and you didn't cite any source, I feel quite confident that you could answer my questions without referring me to another website to find the answers on my own.

Anyway, sorry to get off track.

[diamondpete]

There have been some good point brought up in another thread and since it seems like an interesting topic, I thought I would move it to it's own thread.

Look forward to hearing your comments.

[MAXX]

I actually sat in on a citation class, and a lot of the information was about properly citing internet sources. Most people don't abide by the guidelines. I think it is difficult to do so because there is so much information readily available on the internet. I don't know what the answer is, but I feel that anything that is posted online, becomes public record to a degree. You shouldn't claim it as your own, but you shouldn't need to cite every bit of info.

Photos and videos are the trickiest in my opinion because they can be downloaded and saved. If I took someones photo, scanned it and used it online, is that infringement? Or is it only infringement if I use it for financial purposes. What if the person who took the photo posts it, and then I download it? Is there a difference. A lot of gray area exists.....

[Cynic]

Originally Posted by MAXX

I actually sat in on a citation class, and a lot of the information was about properly citing internet sources. Most people don't abide by the guidelines. I think it is difficult to do so because there is so much information readily available on the internet. I don't know what the answer is, but I feel that anything that is posted online, becomes public record to a degree. You shouldn't claim it as your own, but you shouldn't need to cite every bit of info.

Ya know, I still have a copy of the MLA handbook from years ago.

While I think that form would be overkill on an internet forum, some sort of "I heard from..." or "I read this on..." citation is always good. Even putting it in a quote box passes on the idea that it is coming from somewhere else.

Julie, it's understood, if you aren't doing first line research, everything you know is actually someone else's work. It's Newton's "If I can see farther, it's because I stand on the shoulders of giants" type crediting.

I think part of the problem is the use of "I do this and that" when it's someone else's words, C&P'd from somewhere else.

[MAXX]

Another tricky situation: internet forums. Someone asks you a question that you cannot completely answer. You find some good answers on an internet forum, from a variety of posters. How do you take all of that information and pass it on? This is a difficult scenario that I have been faced with. There are many people who could answer certain things more thoroughly than I could, and often the best answers are a combination of things you find in forums. When this has been the case, I don't want to send a person on a wild goose chase to get their answer, so I will cut, copy, and paste an answer that is a combination of sources and cite what forums and threads that I obtained the information from. I don't think it is necessary for me to construct an answer when others have already done it better than I could have. What do others think about info found in a forum post--is it intellectual property? What if the poster is using an anonymous moniker?

[Lost Dog]

I understand concerns about legalities and proper citations, but how about concerns about polite and appropriate behavior?

Maybe this thread got edited or somethings got deleted, but it doesn't really look like it... I don't really think it's appropriate to start a thread called "linkning to sources, crediting sources"and just starting it off by calling one member out, right off the bat.

It's like you're trying to draw new readers in so they can all see that's someone's doing something wrong. Start a more generic thread/discussion, report your concerns to a moderator, or post your concerns in the thread with the "issues."

Most of us are adults and should lead by example. You don't stand up in front of a crowd, get everyone's attention, then bring your child or friend's "issues" up in front of everybody. But, that's basically what happened here. It's rude.

[Chrisatc]

I think you are right Lost Dog, however the subject in question is a habiltual attention getter. This is not a shot at her, jsut the truth. With no experience, no knowledge of the subjects on hand except where to get the info and no idea how to logicaly put them in the right context most of the time. Enough about her from me on this forum.

Now, I think with Julie, as I get asked injury questions quite a bit as well on other forums, the issue is personal experience more than anything. Julie, as a PT has probably treated the gammut of issues members bring up here, heck, if I have an injury, I would ask her and not think twice about where she got the answer. The other fourms I am on are about the same, I treat athletic specific and orthopaedic injuries and most of the time, the OG poster knows this and does not ask me to reply with sources...however, if it was you responding Dog, to an injury question, I would ask how you know...not because I don';t think you know the answer, but becuase I don't know if you are experienced in inury situations.

[ninja]

If you can find the information on more than three mediums (sites/papers/magazines/etc) it is considered "common knowledge" and journalistically, you are not required to cite it. (at least that's the rule of thumb here)