Doing too much

[maxattack]

I am coming up on my first schedualed week off on training in a LONG time. Recently, I have done TBT and have my last workout of PowerTraining 12 week push/pull hypertrophy program tomorrow....and I took a 2 day break in between them; before those I did some NROL programs. I just hate not lifting! I do some type off HIIT on my non lifting days as well, with one day off completely usually. Right now though, I'm burnt out and I'm looking for a break.

Anyway, looking back, I'm wondering if I could have progressed more. I know eating enough is the biggest component, but my question is can you do too much during a single workout? For instance on a Push day my workout looks like this:
Oly lift
knee dominant
horizontal push
vertical push
Rotational/core
bridging/stabilization exercise

I give my all, on all those lifts, but I guess my training capacity has grown enough that I feel like doing more after I'm done. I usually do "extra" work before my core stuff at the end....such as extra sets of exercises, or throwing more sets of different lifts in there like incline presses or dips after my regular chest exercise, and DB squats or lunges after my regularlly schedualed front squats. Too much?
I just have the sick mentality of enjoying leaving the gym feeling beat completely, but I wonder if I compromising my size gains by pounding myself all the time in the gym.

I lift with intensity, and I time my rest periods almost all the time. I just feel like doing more

Can anybody offer some insight on this?

[onepack]

I'm no expert here. But personally, I can get away with excessive intensity/volume if I am very well fed. But even than there is a limit to how much you can do and how long you can do it. My body starts to break down and recovery becomes an issue when I do programs like the one you are doing for longer then 4-6 weeks. If you love training hard you have to have the nutrition to support it. In other words, eat more than you have been and take some breaks every now and than.

[maxattack]

thanks for the response, and yeah I have been eatin way more than I would have thought I'd need to, at this time last year. I keep track of my calories and generally follow the PN way of eating. Seems to be working gradually, but I have a hard time nailing down the right # of cals to gain muscle.
Recovery wise, I can tell I'm not doing what I'm capable of or at least recoverying the way I was a couple months ago. My legs, shoulders and chest are some areas that feel tired alot, as well as me overall. I just finished 12 weeks of training by a$$ off so I'm taking a break for a week before I start another program.

I was just mainly wondering in you can overwork yourself compromisng growth. I seem to be able to really hammer myself on a push/pull program.

[PowerManDL]

Originally Posted by maxattack

Recovery wise, I can tell I'm not doing what I'm capable of or at least recoverying the way I was a couple months ago. My legs, shoulders and chest are some areas that feel tired alot, as well as me overall. I just finished 12 weeks of training by a$$ off so I'm taking a break for a week before I start another program.

This is your indicator then. Chronic tiredness is one sign. The major ones would be disrupted sleep, lack of motivation/dreading the gym, and stagnation of strength gains. Any/all of those are a sign you need to back off.

I was just mainly wondering in you can overwork yourself compromisng growth. I seem to be able to really hammer myself on a push/pull program.

Absolutely you can. That's a function of your volume and/or too frequent attempts at maximal intensity. If you're not capable of improving your working weights (w/o sacrificing form and w/o the weights feeling terribly heavier) somewhat consistently, then something needs to be addressed in what you're doing.

[maxattack]

I see what your'e saying. I know that I have probably been over-training by adding more volume(extra stuff), but I am/was on a hypertrophy program....so I figured it was alright to really push myself over and over with different lifts.

Physically, I feel tired some and feel like I'm not 100% a lot of the time, but I still feel like goin to the gym.

My strength gains have come, but very slowly and that may be partly me not eating enough, because I don't think I've gained much size as I should have over the past 12 weeks.....I'm just leary of fat gain this time of year.
I have this week schedualed to be an off week, but after a few days I don't know how long I'll last.

[jvernacchio]

Get some blood work done and have your Testosterone and Free Testosterone levels checked.

From the workout you posted that doesn't look like anywhere near "over training". I tend to think "over training" is something most average Joe lifter is never really going to experience unless there is a physical/chemical deficiency.

[PowerManDL]

It's impossible to say what is or isn't too much w/o knowing the loading and the rate of progress.

Also, stagnation and overreaching can occur w/o strict overtraining syndrome actually kicking in.

People tend to easily exceed the threshold for optimal gains w/o necessarily overtraining.

[maxattack]

I had thought about gettin my test. levels checked a while back, but I just never really thought it was a problem I guess.

Just to give you some insight, my typical whole workout lately has been
Push day:
Powerclean
Front Squat
BB benchpress
Single arm DB Shoulderpress
cable rotation
All 4 working sets of 12,10,8,6 reps(plus 2-3 warmup sets usually)

plus: Extra
S.S.(superset)
DB incline bp x 4 sets of 10-8
DB Foward lunges x 4 sets of 10-8
S.S.
Dips x 3-4 sets of 10-8
Hanging legraises x 3-4 sets of 10-8

S.S.
seated DB shoulderpress 2-3 sets
Static lunge 2-3 sets

Then I'd finish with
weighted unanchored situps 3-4 sets
S.S.
bridging/stabilization exercise 4 sets timed
pushups(3-4 sets of 10)

My Pull days look similar with different types of db/bb rows and pull/chinups. Some days I have more energy than others and I'll do some extra sets of lifts.
I also try to vary the types of lifts each time, and increase weight everytime. I don't know if it's too much volume or not, but afterwards I'm usually beat, and my workout shake is almost empty.

[PowerManDL]

Originally Posted by maxattack

I don't know if it's too much volume or not

Yes, it is. Far too many exercises, not to mention a very poor choice of rep ranges/loading.

[maxattack]

Thanks for your insight, I knew it myself, but it I guess it helps to actually hear/read it for someone else. I have made up my mind that after my time off this week, I'm going to cut back on my extra work. Programs are written for a reason i know, but I hate leaving when I have more time and a little energy left in the tank.

As far as the ranges and loading goes, aside from the main program, what or how would you prescribe extra lifts (like cable rows or lunges ect.) as finishing type exercises after doing your main lifts? Like higher reps 10-12 one week, and vary it the next (6-8) week work?

I would just like to ad that other than the people I associate with here in these forum, and the info I read here, I'm basically alone in fitness in my life. My family supports me, but I have nobody to ask questions or offer advice....so I appreicate it!

[AFI82]

That seems like way way too much stuff. Does that take you around 2 hours to accomplish?

I don't think there's anything wrong with adding 1 or 2 supplemental exercises to a routine that someone else has written. But you're adding an entire extra days worth of work to an already difficult set of lifts.

If you cut back on some of the extra things, you'll probably see better results in your regular lifts.

[maxattack]

It usually takes me about 1:30-1:50 minutes to do. And yeah looking back now, I see it is too much, which seems to have caused my size and strength gains to diminish somewhat.

Is there any good protocol to follow, as far as loading and set/reps go, when adding a supplemental exercise at the end of your workout?

[PowerManDL]

My rule of thumb is to keep the main exercises "heavy" (a few sets of 4-8 reps, generally) and do the assistance work more like "traditional bodybuilding" work, a few sets of 6-15 reps.

[maxattack]

Alright, I appreciate all the help and insight.

I have often wondered about what's a good rep scheme for adding accessory work but I just didn't know.