Knees Move In During Squat

[Hunter]

I know my knees have a tendency to move inward while squatting, but while doing single-leg squats this weekend, I noticed the move was rather dramatic. I'm going to review the Squat Rx video series, but does anyone know which in that series pertains to this problem? Any other advice on overcoming this issue?

Thanks.

[Chrisatc]

As stated in Starting Strength, possibly weak adductors?

[karky]

I also had the problem of my knees buckling in a lot when doing single leg stuff. What I did was simply force them out. I rolled my weight sorta to the outside of my foot and focused on pushing my knee out. It helped a lot and every time I do single leg stuff now I get a soreness in the side of my butt (which I guess is an abductor muscle of some kind) I also found it a lot easier to "activate" my glutes with this method.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by karky

I also had the problem of my knees buckling in a lot when doing single leg stuff. What I did was simply force them out. I rolled my weight sorta to the outside of my foot and focused on pushing my knee out. It helped a lot and every time I do single leg stuff now I get a soreness in the side of my butt (which I guess is an abductor muscle of some kind) I also found it a lot easier to "activate" my glutes with this method.

I hear ya' re: the soreness on the side of the butt!!

When doing bilaterl stuff, I can force my knees out, but I couldn't while doing the uni- moves. It doesn't seem to be an issue with lunges, though.

[karky]

so what uni moves is it an issue with? the method I described I use for all uni moves, even SL RDLs, etc. I can now do it with supported single leg exercises, so I'm trying to go for unsupported (like postol squats) it is a lot harder.

[J Stankowski]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I know my knees have a tendency to move inward while squatting, but while doing single-leg squats this weekend, I noticed the move was rather dramatic. I'm going to review the Squat Rx video series, but does anyone know which in that series pertains to this problem? Any other advice on overcoming this issue?

Thanks.

I refer to that 'inward buckling' as the "bambi-learning-to-walk-move" (as in the disney movie).

Two ways I'd look at it: 1) weak glutes and/or 2) tight/'overactive' adductors.

Without starting a rant about traditional stretching, I'll just say I'd address the weakness first. Any 'tightness' tends to take care of itself. (gotta love that law of reciprocal inhibition!)

In addition to the unilateral moves mentioned above, you might also try squatting with a band/tubing around your legs (just above your knees).

Not too tight - just enough to provide additional neural input to wake up your 'dormant' glutes.

-JS-

(btw, the opposite of "bambi" is "John Wayne")

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by karky

so what uni moves is it an issue with?

A single-leg squat. I was doing it on a bench, so it wasn't a full pistol, but i was going well below parallel. The bambi move (thanks Joe, that is a humbling way to describe it) happens right when I initiate the upward push.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by J Stankowski

I refer to that 'inward buckling' as the "bambi-learning-to-walk-move" (as in the disney movie).

Two ways I'd look at it: 1) weak glutes and/or 2) tight/'overactive' adductors.

Without starting a rant about traditional stretching, I'll just say I'd address the weakness first. Any 'tightness' tends to take care of itself. (gotta love that law of reciprocal inhibition!)

In addition to the unilateral moves mentioned above, you might also try squatting with a band/tubing around your legs (just above your knees).

Not too tight - just enough to provide additional neural input to wake up your 'dormant' glutes.

-JS-

(btw, the opposite of "bambi" is "John Wayne")

So if I have tight or overactive adductors, I need to activate the abductors. Is that the soreness I felt in my butt right next to the hip joint?

I'll get some bands and work on the John Wayne move!

[J Stankowski]

Originally Posted by Hunter

A single-leg squat. I was doing it on a bench, so it wasn't a full pistol, but i was going well below parallel. The bambi move (thanks Joe, that is a humbling way to describe it) happens right when I initiate the upward push.

you can also use the band/tubing technique w/uni-lateral moves... have a training partner provide some resistance or just attach an end to a rack/bench/etc and stand at a distance & angle that'll give you some 'neural input'.

re: "bambi" - since my clients tend to be "regular" people and not other fitness geeks, I've come up with a whole slew of 'common' terms to describe movements. Here's a few of my personal faves:

* J-Lo (excessive anterior pelvic tilt)
* Elvis (posterior tilt)
('porn star arse' & 'armadillo' can be interchanged, respectively, though they're more specific to the lumbar spine)
* Betty Boop (lateral hip 'shift'; often seen during squatting/walking)
* Michael Jackson (a common hip compensation pattern when doing a hurdle-step test [ala Gray Cook]; can be internal or external rotation)
* What's the square root of pi? (elevated/shrugged shoulder(s))

If nothing else, they make for interesting visuals, don't ya' think?

[J Stankowski]

Originally Posted by Hunter

So if I have tight or overactive adductors, I need to activate the abductors. Is that the soreness I felt in my butt right next to the hip joint?

I'll get some bands and work on the John Wayne move!

If your knee is buckling INWARD, use the band to pull your knee in that direction even more.

I admit it's counter-intutitive, but when you feel the resistance, you'll work against it - thereby activating your abductors.

-JS-

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by J Stankowski

you can also use the band/tubing technique w/uni-lateral moves... have a training partner provide some resistance or just attach an end to a rack/bench/etc and stand at a distance & angle that'll give you some 'neural input'.

re: "bambi" - since my clients tend to be "regular" people and not other fitness geeks, I've come up with a whole slew of 'common' terms to describe movements. Here's a few of my personal faves:

* J-Lo (excessive anterior pelvic tilt)
* Elvis (posterior tilt)
('porn star arse' & 'armadillo' can be interchanged, respectively, though they're more specific to the lumbar spine)
* Betty Boop (lateral hip 'shift'; often seen during squatting/walking)
* Michael Jackson (a common hip compensation pattern when doing a hurdle-step test [ala Gray Cook]; can be internal or external rotation)
* What's the square root of pi? (elevated/shrugged shoulder(s))

If nothing else, they make for interesting visuals, don't ya' think?

Lisa~ has given me a few good ones in the past - you guys should publish a glossary of terms!

[Lisa~]

Single-leg work does tend to highlight our weaknesses and compensation patterns. It's one of the reasons to keep it in a program. It's good that you took notice now before it became a real problem.

You've already gotten good info in this thread. I just wanted to add good luck correcting this issue. I'm glad you're working on it. Let us know, after you try these suggestions, if they're working for you.

[Lisa~]

Originally Posted by Hunter

I'm going to review the Squat Rx video series, but does anyone know which in that series pertains to this problem?

See if it's Squat Rx #3, part 1 or 2. I'm not sure, but that's probably the right one. Let me know. We can add that info to the Squat Rx thread.

[Lisa~]

The information in these articles expands on what has already been said, but I know you like to read good articles. Besides, you'd probably mess with me if I didn't give you any links!

Q&A with Julia Ladewski - Knees cave in while squatting

Determining and Strengthening Weaknesses (in the squat and bench press) by Tom Myslinski

Getting to Know the Squat by Mike Robertson

10 Tips for Flawless Squattin' by Mike Robertson

[kuri]

Great info Lisa and Joe. I'm gonna steal Joe's movement pattern analogies!

[J Stankowski]

Originally Posted by kuri

Great info Lisa and Joe. I'm gonna steal Joe's movement pattern analogies!

Well if you're gonna recycle my analogies, don't forget to include "Jay Leno" (head forward) and "chicken peck" (which even comes with a quick demo to illustrate neutral c-spine.)

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Lisa~

See if it's Squat Rx #3, part 1 or 2. I'm not sure, but that's probably the right one. Let me know. We can add that info to the Squat Rx thread.

He talks about it a little bit at the beginning of part 2, but he doesn't really get into specific exercises for correcting that problem. He just says "don't let your knees cave in," and the way to prevent it is activating the glutes and hams. There is very little uni- work, but one good exercise he showed was pushing a plate across the floor with the outside of your foot.

And, of course, thank you for the links .